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#66153 - 09 Dec 07 19:17 Doing business with Indians
flingwing Offline
Member++

Registered: 28 May 07
Posts: 188
Loc: Jakarta
Speaking of Indians, I have a question that may end up hijacking this thread.

Years ago in England, I ran into many "Western-oriented Gentlemen" and began learning about Hinduism. I even tried vegetarianism, myself, for some time. I never had a problem with Indians. I always found them lucid, responsive, and easy to be with.

Then, about 18 months ago, someone on one of the Jakarta expat forums made some casual, but disparaging remarks about doing business with Indians. This, then, became a thread and several more expats chimed in with stories that painted Indian business people in a bad light.

My first reactions were "that's not true or, at least, not my experience". I figured it was just a case of "expat sour grapes" for being bested in some business deals gone wrong. Still, the added forum remarks were a little too vehement and a few too many to be just coincidental.

Kebetulan, about six months later, I had a short negotiation with an Indian businessman in Jakarta. This was for some project services - more than price bartering in a store. I noticed how "galak" he was when it came to the normal give-and-take in most business affairs that could have benefitted both parties.

Then, even more recently, I had extended business dealings with Indians, outside Indonesia. Suffice to say, I came out the apparent second-best. Some large promises made weren't kept. It was as if these Indians weren't concerned with any issues larger than the win/lose of the immediate deal. It all seemed kind of like tunnel vision and shortsighted to me. My loss isn't the point. I have even learned a few new tricks about business from this.

To add to this, my wife reminded me of a story I'd forgotten where, for the only time in her mother's life, as a young wife, she was cheated out of all her saved money by - who else? - an Indian.

QUESTION: are these personal events merely chance encounters (of the Third Kind)? Or do Indian businessmen really have the scruples of weasels?

Obviously, this is an open invitation to slander an entire culture and its nation - the second(?) largest in the world, too! Still, since those first Jakarta forum remarks I have run head first into some behavioral patterns I'd never noticed.

What you you think?


Edited by KuKuKaChu (10 Dec 07 05:40)

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#66154 - 09 Dec 07 19:37 Re: Vegan Indonesian Food [Re: flingwing]
Dilli Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 26 Feb 06
Posts: 8044
Loc: Nearest Bar
Ah Cha, TK. Gandoo bukri chod!
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#66161 - 09 Dec 07 23:03 Re: Vegan Indonesian Food [Re: flingwing]
Capt. Mainwaring Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 16 Aug 06
Posts: 3225
Loc: here
Quoting: flingwing
Speaking of Indians, I have a question that may end up hijacking this thread.

Years ago in England, I ran into many "Western-oriented Gentlemen" and began learning about Hinduism. I even tried vegetarianism, myself, for some time. I never had a problem with Indians. I always found them lucid, responsive, and easy to be with.

Then, about 18 months ago, someone on one of the Jakarta expat forums made some casual, but disparaging remarks about doing business with Indians. This, then, became a thread and several more expats chimed in with stories that painted Indian business people in a bad light.

My first reactions were "that's not true or, at least, not my experience". I figured it was just a case of "expat sour grapes" for being bested in some business deals gone wrong. Still, the added forum remarks were a little too vehement and a few too many to be just coincidental.

Kebetulan, about six months later, I had a short negotiation with an Indian businessman in Jakarta. This was for some project services - more than price bartering in a store. I noticed how "galak" he was when it came to the normal give-and-take in most business affairs that could have benefitted both parties.

Then, even more recently, I had extended business dealings with Indians, outside Indonesia. Suffice to say, I came out the apparent second-best. Some large promises made weren't kept. It was as if these Indians weren't concerned with any issues larger than the win/lose of the immediate deal. It all seemed kind of like tunnel vision and shortsighted to me. My loss isn't the point. I have even learned a few new tricks about business from this.

To add to this, my wife reminded me of a story I'd forgotten where, for the only time in her mother's life, as a young wife, she was cheated out of all her saved money by - who else? - an Indian.

QUESTION: are these personal events merely chance encounters (of the Third Kind)? Or do Indian businessmen really have the scruples of weasels?

Obviously, this is an open invitation to slander an entire culture and its nation - the second(?) largest in the world, too! Still, since those first Jakarta forum remarks I have run head first into some behavioral patterns I'd never noticed.

What you you think?


So what I told you first time around was right then?

Actually since Dilli first speculated about you taking it up the (mango) chutney locker I've been wondering what you might look like in a sari.



Actually it stands for "Wardens on guard"


Edited by Capt. Mainwaring (09 Dec 07 23:06)
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I also made a vegetarian version,with tempe and tofu chunks for myself and others.Get over it.
Kosong.Wolo.Setunggal.Setunggal.Setunggal.Kosong.Pitu.Setunggal.Kosong.Wolo=Tempik

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#66185 - 10 Dec 07 14:35 Re: Vegan Indonesian Food [Re: Capt. Mainwaring]
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
Pooh Bah

Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
Loc: Centre of the Universe
i have many indian clients. in the main, they aren't that much different to most of my other clients, however there does seem to be a much bigger percentage of hard-core dishonest rip-off merchants at the bottom end of the scale.

but then, compared to chinese indonesians, i would prefer to take my risks with indians.
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#82523 - 24 Jul 08 04:28 Re: Vegan Indonesian Food [Re: KuKuKaChu]
gtpower Offline
Member

Registered: 24 Jul 08
Posts: 9
Loc: Singapore
Dear Friends,

Am Rajan from singapore. Born brought up in india moved
to singapore 10years back because of business culture
there. 98% percent indians all dishonest people they dont
keep their words, recently went to india for a big companies
deal their people promised me my travel fairs once i go down
they all run away and hide and change their words from what
they said. Even though india is economicaly stronger the people
dont know what is meaning of business ethics. As i know
what ever they make money they never enjoy all they save it
and die one day. they will tell everybody their four generation
without work can sit and eat at home. If you invite for a
written agreement in business they will run beyond the place
always beating around the bush never come to an end. In the
name of making decisions many indian companies still sleeping.
To change them is difficult better to keep away from them other
wise bill them onspot then start your business. Otherwise you
will loss they will win for their generation not for themself.

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#82532 - 24 Jul 08 07:52 Re: Vegan Indonesian Food [Re: gtpower]
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
Pooh Bah

Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
Loc: Centre of the Universe
sounds like you have some stories, gtpower! smile
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KuKuKaChu: dangerously too sophisticated

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#82670 - 25 Jul 08 13:29 Re: Vegan Indonesian Food [Re: gtpower]
Capt. Mainwaring Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 16 Aug 06
Posts: 3225
Loc: here
Quoting: gtpower
Dear Friends,

Am Rajan from singapore. Born brought up in india moved
to singapore 10years back because of business culture
there. 98% percent indians all dishonest people they dont
keep their words, recently went to india for a big companies
deal their people promised me my travel fairs once i go down
they all run away and hide and change their words from what
they said. Even though india is economicaly stronger the people
dont know what is meaning of business ethics. As i know
what ever they make money they never enjoy all they save it
and die one day. they will tell everybody their four generation
without work can sit and eat at home. If you invite for a
written agreement in business they will run beyond the place
always beating around the bush never come to an end. In the
name of making decisions many indian companies still sleeping.
To change them is difficult better to keep away from them other
wise bill them onspot then start your business. Otherwise you
will loss they will win for their generation not for themself.


Speak on sweet lip......
_________________________
I also made a vegetarian version,with tempe and tofu chunks for myself and others.Get over it.
Kosong.Wolo.Setunggal.Setunggal.Setunggal.Kosong.Pitu.Setunggal.Kosong.Wolo=Tempik

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#104642 - 29 Sep 09 02:05 Re: Vegan Indonesian Food [Re: Capt. Mainwaring]
viewedit Offline
Member

Registered: 29 Sep 09
Posts: 21
Loc: India
Hi,
I am from Mumbai, India.Use to work in Jakarta for 3 and half years, I met several Indians and business run by indians. here are my observations
Point no 1 and the most important one, these so called Indians are not originally Indians from India, they are from pakistan. After the partition of India in 1947,An Islamic state pakistan was carved out from western part of India, which had sizeable population of Hindus and Sindhis, Hindus naturally migrated to India, Sindhis had to choose if it was India/Singapore,Hongkong,Indonesia. very few of them chose Indonesia and voila you have the great Indian sindhi business man, the community which is hatted all over India. 98 percent of Indians in Jakarta are Sindhis from pakistan.
About business houses from India I wouldnt want to comment because I know most of them are greedy and selfish, thats the reason I am looking for finance from Indonesia for my Film project in Jakarta.
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#104649 - 29 Sep 09 11:39 Re: Vegan Indonesian Food [Re: viewedit]
bishopslips Offline
Member++

Registered: 05 Jan 09
Posts: 184
Loc: Jakarta
Quoting: viewedit
the community which is hatted all over India.


Well at least they're easy to spot then.
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She fakes orgasms. I fake love.

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#104651 - 29 Sep 09 11:41 Re: Vegan Indonesian Food [Re: bishopslips]
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
Pooh Bah

Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
Loc: Centre of the Universe
despite that, i do agree, the indians who migrated to indonesia seem to be worst of what india had to offer. but the pakistan connection doesn't wash with me.
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KuKuKaChu: dangerously too sophisticated

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#104678 - 30 Sep 09 12:45 Re: Vegan Indonesian Food [Re: KuKuKaChu]
Marmalade Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 18 Apr 08
Posts: 2471
Loc: Jak
I don't think they wash with anyone. Another way to spot them at 60 paces.
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JakartaRestaurantReviews.com


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#104733 - 01 Oct 09 12:50 Re: Vegan Indonesian Food [Re: KuKuKaChu]
viewedit Offline
Member

Registered: 29 Sep 09
Posts: 21
Loc: India
Sorry mate, They are from Pakistan, thats the Historical fact, so no one can deny or challenge it!
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#104739 - 01 Oct 09 13:32 Re: Vegan Indonesian Food [Re: viewedit]
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
Pooh Bah

Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
Loc: Centre of the Universe
yes but "pakistan" is an artificial creation of colonialism, as is "india".
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KuKuKaChu: dangerously too sophisticated

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#104740 - 01 Oct 09 14:10 Re: Vegan Indonesian Food [Re: KuKuKaChu]
viewedit Offline
Member

Registered: 29 Sep 09
Posts: 21
Loc: India
Quoting: KuKuKaChu
yes but "pakistan" is an artificial creation of colonialism, as is "india".


First line of the wiki itself says what i have quoted above
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sindhi_people

About India being artificially created - the subcontinent itself has ceen civiliazation for more then 3000 yrs, When british came India was small states ruled by kings (it was called Bharatvarsha), after the great battle all the kings lost to one army in one big battle, thus forming one big british India country, Pakistan was formed bec muslims wanted to form Islamic state, so technically its pakistan a creation of colonialism, India was always there as Bharat, yes but british made it one big country. another excample is when alexzander invaded India, he had to fight small kingdoms and states, they were fed up of the war, bec everytime they went to war it was getting more difficult to win it, ultimately all the population which practiced religion in these states where hindu majority. hope this clears thing for u.
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#104741 - 01 Oct 09 14:12 Re: Vegan Indonesian Food [Re: KuKuKaChu]
Derek Gratis Offline
Member*

Registered: 30 May 09
Posts: 517
Loc: Proxima Centauri
pastikan
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"Still, I'll say this for Indonesia, the health service is tremendous. As soon as you're ill, they kill you. There's no fucking about with cures."

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#104742 - 01 Oct 09 14:16 Re: Vegan Indonesian Food [Re: Derek Gratis]
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
Pooh Bah

Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
Loc: Centre of the Universe
thanks for clearing that up. proves my point, doesn't it? india would not exist if it was not for the English colonisers.
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KuKuKaChu: dangerously too sophisticated

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#104743 - 01 Oct 09 14:17 Re: Vegan Indonesian Food [Re: Derek Gratis]
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
Pooh Bah

Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
Loc: Centre of the Universe
Quoting: Derek Gratis
pastikan


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KuKuKaChu: dangerously too sophisticated

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#104744 - 01 Oct 09 14:21 Re: Vegan Indonesian Food [Re: Derek Gratis]
Derek Gratis Offline
Member*

Registered: 30 May 09
Posts: 517
Loc: Proxima Centauri
Yes we created Islamic fundyism, or gave it a head start at any rate: Supporting partition for the 'Stanis (and what a tremendous success that country has been), supporting the corrupt Saudi royals who legitimise their sleaze by kowtowing to the Wahabi nut jobs, overthrowing Mossedeq in Iran thus creating conditions leading to the Islamic revolution, supporting Bin Ladenism in Afghanistan when the Pinkoes were there. It's a rum do. And now the head-bangers have come back to bite us on the arse.
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"Still, I'll say this for Indonesia, the health service is tremendous. As soon as you're ill, they kill you. There's no fucking about with cures."

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#104745 - 01 Oct 09 14:38 Re: Vegan Indonesian Food [Re: KuKuKaChu]
viewedit Offline
Member

Registered: 29 Sep 09
Posts: 21
Loc: India
Quoting: KuKuKaChu
thanks for clearing that up. proves my point, doesn't it? india would not exist if it was not for the English colonisers.


Yes ur right in a way, if u ignore the fact that Bharatvarsha existed before britisher came to the subcontinent.
Its complicated so lets not waste our time on this, Point is Sindhis are worst people to be with, and unfortunatly They do have good hold on Film and sinetron industry in Indonesia, that actually is very unfortunate.
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#104746 - 01 Oct 09 14:42 Re: Vegan Indonesian Food [Re: Derek Gratis]
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
Pooh Bah

Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
Loc: Centre of the Universe
Quoting: Derek Gratis
And now the head-bangers have come back to bite us on the arse.

the ungrateful bastards. after all we've done for them.
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KuKuKaChu: dangerously too sophisticated

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#104748 - 01 Oct 09 15:47 Re: Vegan Indonesian Food [Re: KuKuKaChu]
Derek Gratis Offline
Member*

Registered: 30 May 09
Posts: 517
Loc: Proxima Centauri
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"Still, I'll say this for Indonesia, the health service is tremendous. As soon as you're ill, they kill you. There's no fucking about with cures."

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#104776 - 02 Oct 09 01:59 Re: Vegan Indonesian Food [Re: Derek Gratis]
viewedit Offline
Member

Registered: 29 Sep 09
Posts: 21
Loc: India
The real problem will start when terrorists will strike india again, US intel reports suggests they are planning, I wont be surprised if India will take military action against Pakis, the ultimate fact is terrorism against India is funded and supported not only by Pakis and saudis, chinese are the main culprits, whole of India knows it, according to Intel report china will attack India to establish their supermacy through out asia. which will prove their might and economically cripple India. little chinese people will be tought a good lesson this time.
I hope I am not offending chinese in this forum.
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#104778 - 02 Oct 09 07:42 Re: Vegan Indonesian Food [Re: viewedit]
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
Pooh Bah

Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
Loc: Centre of the Universe
first it's the pakistanis, now it's the chinese ... doesn't india have any friends??
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KuKuKaChu: dangerously too sophisticated

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#104784 - 02 Oct 09 11:27 Re: Vegan Indonesian Food [Re: KuKuKaChu]
Derek Gratis Offline
Member*

Registered: 30 May 09
Posts: 517
Loc: Proxima Centauri
Well I'm a big fan.



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"Still, I'll say this for Indonesia, the health service is tremendous. As soon as you're ill, they kill you. There's no fucking about with cures."

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#104788 - 02 Oct 09 12:08 Re: Vegan Indonesian Food [Re: Derek Gratis]
Marmalade Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 18 Apr 08
Posts: 2471
Loc: Jak
I think this thread should be renamed 'paranoid people with comic interjections'.
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