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#64286 - 02 Nov 07 05:24 BBC/'Enola Gay' pilot dead at 92
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
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if Paul Tibbets had been japanese, and had dropped an atomic bomb on San Franscisco, he'd rightly be called a war criminal.

may he rot in hell.



'Enola Gay' pilot dead at 92

The commander of the B-29 plane that dropped the first atomic bomb on Hiroshima during World War II, has died at the age of 92.

Paul Warfield Tibbets, who piloted the Enola Gay, died at his home in Columbus, Ohio.

The five-ton Little Boy bomb was dropped on the morning of August 6, 1945, killing about 140,000 Japanese. Many others died later.

On the 60th anniversary of the bombing, the three surviving crew members of the Enola Gay said they had "no regrets".

- BBC
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#64287 - 02 Nov 07 05:42 Re: BBC/'Enola Gay' pilot dead at 92 [Re: KuKuKaChu]
Dilli Offline
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Dont hold back there Kuku.... I thought you had got over the CND days!
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#64288 - 02 Nov 07 05:45 Re: BBC/'Enola Gay' pilot dead at 92 [Re: Dilli]
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
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see you on the barricades, comrade!
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#64295 - 02 Nov 07 06:19 Re: BBC/'Enola Gay' pilot dead at 92 [Re: KuKuKaChu]
Dilli Offline
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Ah, the old days of hippiedom, free love, tie die's, flared trousers and weed.

Way before my time I'm afraid. Look at the damage it caused you!


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#64307 - 02 Nov 07 08:22 Re: BBC/'Enola Gay' pilot dead at 92 [Re: Dilli]
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
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Paul Tibbets should have had a toke before taking off in his "enola gay". perhaps he would have had second thoughts about slaughtering over a hundred thousand innocent civilians.
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#64308 - 02 Nov 07 08:53 Re: BBC/'Enola Gay' pilot dead at 92 [Re: KuKuKaChu]
riccardo Offline
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Quoting: KuKuKaChu
...slaughtering over a hundred thousand innocent civilians.


INNOCENT?? Can you clarify that statement?
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#64309 - 02 Nov 07 08:59 Re: BBC/'Enola Gay' pilot dead at 92 [Re: riccardo]
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
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non-combatants. including women, children, aged.
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#64312 - 02 Nov 07 09:17 Re: BBC/'Enola Gay' pilot dead at 92 [Re: KuKuKaChu]
riccardo Offline
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The whole nation was totally behind the war effort, old ladies making soldiers' clothing, kids and mums working in bomb factories... Or making mess kits to be sent to the field. Hiroshima was chosen because it had many such factories. There wasn't an innocent among those Japanese. And guess who told me that? Dozens of elderly Japanese, when I lived there. They look at it in a more "Asian" or perhaps Zen manner than our Western minds can get our heads around. They believe that it was their "karma" because of their previous aggression. They don't blame the Americans at all, to a man, they blame themselves.
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#64314 - 02 Nov 07 09:24 Re: BBC/'Enola Gay' pilot dead at 92 [Re: riccardo]
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
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are you saying that the people of San Francisco -- men, women and children -- were not actively behind the Pacific War effort?

hypothetical question:

a japanese bomber pilot drops an atomic bomb on san francisco in july 1945, instantly killing 200,000 american civilians. however, the japanese govt subsequently surrenders the month after.

is the pilot a) a war hero, who will live on to a ripe old age, or b) a vicious war criminal, who will be hanged in 1946?
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#64320 - 02 Nov 07 09:45 Re: BBC/'Enola Gay' pilot dead at 92 [Re: KuKuKaChu]
riccardo Offline
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You're still looking at this with your Western mind. The Japanese have dealt with it and are regretful for having brought it on themselves. It's only the bleeding heart lib westerners who still have their panties in a bunch over it; the same ones who'd be forced to be giving a heil salute to the Emperor of Japan today if not for the boys on the Enola Gay!
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#64321 - 02 Nov 07 09:47 Re: BBC/'Enola Gay' pilot dead at 92 [Re: riccardo]
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
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answer the question wink
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#64322 - 02 Nov 07 09:52 Re: BBC/'Enola Gay' pilot dead at 92 [Re: KuKuKaChu]
riccardo Offline
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The answer to all those questions is: of course those things would happen. The bigger question is why are naive Western libs unable to get their heads around the reality of what did happen and how the Japanese themselves are totally reconciled with it and feel it was their own doing.
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#64323 - 02 Nov 07 09:58 Re: BBC/'Enola Gay' pilot dead at 92 [Re: KuKuKaChu]
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
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you are avoiding the question!
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#64324 - 02 Nov 07 10:02 Re: BBC/'Enola Gay' pilot dead at 92 [Re: KuKuKaChu]
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
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i'll give you a hint: the answer is b).
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#64325 - 02 Nov 07 10:03 Re: BBC/'Enola Gay' pilot dead at 92 [Re: riccardo]
Dilli Offline
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It was argued at the time that the Bombs had to be dropped in an effort to save both Allied and Japanese lives. When I say Japanese lives, this did not apply only to Japanese soldiers, there had been many scenarios as to what fighting on the Japanese mainland would be like and most involved massive civilian casulty rates.

The Emperor was seen as a sociopathic serial killer who wouldn't surrender, despite warnings that if he did not surrender there would be grave consequences.His "God King" status and the Samuri tradition possibly did not allow him to consider this as an option at the time.

In the minds of the Allied command, the kamikaze attacks and suicidal banzai charges of cornered and defeated Japanese troops were a pretty good indication of how the fighting would have gone on the mainland.

This after many years has convinced most westerners that the blame for Hiroshima and Nagasaki should be placed where it belongs-on the Japanese war leadership who coerced their people into the war effort.
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#64327 - 02 Nov 07 10:14 Re: BBC/'Enola Gay' pilot dead at 92 [Re: Dilli]
chewwyUK Offline
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With the greatest respect ric ... BOLLOCKS. The Japanese have learnt to say the right things as they have a built in need to accept total responsibility and beat themselves anytime they can.

Having spent a bit of time in Hiroshima I can tell you the community doesn't think having a bomb dropped on them was a fair thing to happen.

You are smart enough to know there is a huge difference between the polite, friendly face of Japan and the reality of what they really think,do and say behind your back.

If I was to guess why the Japanese tend to have an ingrained distrust of Gaijin I would think dropping a dirty great big bomb on em would be a good place to start
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#64328 - 02 Nov 07 10:16 Re: BBC/'Enola Gay' pilot dead at 92 [Re: chewwyUK]
Dilli Offline
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This is a situation where it pays to look at the different cultural backgrounds of the two sides.

Both sides thought their code of warfare was globally accepted and understood. But both sides were wrong.

The Japanese were waging war the same way they had for centuries. Pre-emptive strikes were a valid and honourable technique, and the expectation was that their opponents also knew this and would act accordingly. Of course, the Allies did not think that way at all (at the time, anyway.)

And vice-versa - America assumed that Japan fought wars the same way Americans did.

The Japanese were surprised when the Americans were caught off guard. The Americans were surprised when Japan attacked without prior warning.

The Japanese died in large numbers attacking a military target.

The Americans bombed an incredible number of civilians from a distance without risking any of their own people.

Whose act was more cowardly? It depends entirely on your point of view - and in the end it's irrelevant.

It was a tragedy and a terrible act on the part of both sides.


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#64333 - 02 Nov 07 11:18 Re: BBC/'Enola Gay' pilot dead at 92 [Re: Dilli]
riccardo Offline
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There's a documentary on this subject right now -- tune in to the ABC Australia channel on Kabelvision/Indovision.
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