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#62663 - 01 Oct 07 10:22 Alms or Extortion?
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
Ramadan is a really weird time of year in Indonesia for both Muslims and non-Muslims. For Muslims, there are a host of obligations this month, including the dawn-to-dusk fasting, alms-giving and requests for forgiveness from all and sundry.

These things do not apply to non-Muslims in this country or anywhere else that I know of.

But that does not stop these little iSlamists from using it as an excuse for low-level extortion of non-Muslims.

In our predominantly non-Muslim housing complex, we are seeing more and more people coming around, going door to door, and in a demanding tone, asking us to pay them "Zakat" (Islamic tithing) -- simply because it says ISLAM on their ID cards and their religious holiday is upon us.

Now, I don't have any problem giving standard annual bonuses at this time of year to our servants and security people -- that's an appreciation of a year of good work -- and has nothing to do with their or our religion.

But when these rogue elements come from who-knows-where demanding us to pay them money while mentioning Islamic obligations, I just have to laugh. I asked around the neighborhood and found out that some of our neighbors (all non-Muslims) have, in fact, given these rogues money due to fear of reprisals.

Good grief, when will this crud end? 'Unity in Diversity' my buttocks. It should be changed to: 'we have more thugs than you "diverse" folks so you better play ball our way, then we'll accept that you've united with us.'

Our family regularly gives to needy people and causes when there is a clearly demonstrated need. But, we will never give because some little thug wannabes expect us to heed obligations from THEIR religion.

By the way, we'll be seeing virtually the same group of flotsam and jetsam turning up around Christmas time and the Chinese New Year, but they'll use a slightly different script.
_________________________
Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

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#62666 - 01 Oct 07 11:16 Re: Alms or Extortion? [Re: riccardo]
Capt. Mainwaring Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 16 Aug 06
Posts: 3225
Loc: here
"By the way, we'll be seeing virtually the same group of flotsam and jetsam turning up around Christmas time and the Chinese New Year, but they'll use a slightly different script."

Then they aren't Islamists are they? Just extortionists . The same tactics are used by scum in the UK collecting around xmas time for their own pockets, by beggars in the street , but they don't do it in the name of christianity , just for their own interests.

So much for your assertion that you lived on a nice estate full of charlie farlies munching noodles and bacon - how does the satpam let them in ? or more correctly, why does the satpam let them in?

I can only suggest that you and your neighbours unify and make a stand against these people.
_________________________
I also made a vegetarian version,with tempe and tofu chunks for myself and others.Get over it.
Kosong.Wolo.Setunggal.Setunggal.Setunggal.Kosong.Pitu.Setunggal.Kosong.Wolo=Tempik

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#62667 - 01 Oct 07 11:28 Re: Alms or Extortion? [Re: Capt. Mainwaring]
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
Quoting: Capt. Mainwaring
- how does the satpam let them in ? or more correctly, why does the satpam let them in?


I know you don't really care and are just trying to argue for the sake of it, but here's the explanation anyway for those who might actually be interested...

Before the 1998 mayhem, which targeted the Chinese-Indonesians, it was standard practice to bar those that had no reason to be here. Probably 80% of the predominantly Chinese complexes throughout Jakarta did in fact keep everyone out unless they lived or worked there. No exceptions. Those complexes that didn't allow local yokels to come in, bore the brunt of the violence in May 1998. The 20% or so that had always allowed locals to wander through were spared.

Since that time, there's been a sort of unwritten rule that they can come in. All things considered, it's probably an appropriate response by the satpam and RTs.
_________________________
Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

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#62668 - 01 Oct 07 11:46 Re: Alms or Extortion? [Re: riccardo]
zapata Offline
Member

Registered: 22 Aug 06
Posts: 2
Loc: Sydney
As far as i know not long after the riot, many streets were gated. I found many this sort of gated community mainly in the city. Once i caught a bus to Kota and saw gated entrances to 'kampung'.

If we believe that the riot was very traumatic enough, then they should have been highly suspicious with strangers not otherwise.

But i was uncertain how things have changed ...


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#62671 - 01 Oct 07 13:33 Re: Alms or Extortion? [Re: zapata]
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
Indeed, they've all built stronger, higher walls and fences, but ALSO are more flexible about letting locals cruise through or hang around inside... The thinking is, I guess, that if the shit goes down again, they lock up the gates and hope that their previous flexible attitude AND bigger fences will offer more protection than before.

_________________________
Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

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#62676 - 01 Oct 07 14:26 Re: Alms or Extortion? [Re: riccardo]
Capt. Mainwaring Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 16 Aug 06
Posts: 3225
Loc: here
Quoting: riccardo
Quoting: Capt. Mainwaring
- how does the satpam let them in ? or more correctly, why does the satpam let them in?


I know you don't really care and are just trying to argue for the sake of it, but here's the explanation anyway for those who might actually be interested...

Before the 1998 mayhem, which targeted the Chinese-Indonesians, it was standard practice to bar those that had no reason to be here. Probably 80% of the predominantly Chinese complexes throughout Jakarta did in fact keep everyone out unless they lived or worked there. No exceptions. Those complexes that didn't allow local yokels to come in, bore the brunt of the violence in May 1998. The 20% or so that had always allowed locals to wander through were spared.

Since that time, there's been a sort of unwritten rule that they can come in. All things considered, it's probably an appropriate response by the satpam and RTs.


Riccardo , me argue for the sake of it? I didn't argue in any case , I just asked a couple of questions as is my right until you manage to get someone to listen and ban me.

Next, they are Indo-chinese , not the other way around.

I know that you believe that you are one of the few expats that has any sort of standard of life in Indo , but I too live in a reasonably nice area, albeit not a throbbing hub like you.
Our satpam were on stop and search drill but the problem arises when you need workmen and other necessities to enter.

Segregation and creating an unnatural barrier does nothing to help this situation and you are living in a dream world if you believe that things like this happen because of religion - though of course this is always your agenda. It happens because of money .
_________________________
I also made a vegetarian version,with tempe and tofu chunks for myself and others.Get over it.
Kosong.Wolo.Setunggal.Setunggal.Setunggal.Kosong.Pitu.Setunggal.Kosong.Wolo=Tempik

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#62691 - 01 Oct 07 20:20 Re: Alms or Extortion? [Re: Capt. Mainwaring]
Roy's Hair Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 08 Nov 06
Posts: 3974
Loc: jakarta
I agree. I think the idea of the gated community and the privatization of public space is no answer to the problems outlined above and a great modern curse on society.
_________________________
Chinese like more traditional patterns on their ring.

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#62693 - 01 Oct 07 20:30 Re: Alms or Extortion? [Re: Roy's Hair]
Dilli Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 26 Feb 06
Posts: 8044
Loc: Nearest Bar
Fuck 'em, they get fuck all. Now as for Halloween (another bribe fest, western sanctioned) , here is a list off people who do not need to dress up

Emm, err, go to top of page and click user list. At this current point there 1632 candidates!
_________________________
Menace to Sobriety


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#62694 - 01 Oct 07 20:31 Re: Alms or Extortion? [Re: Dilli]
Dilli Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 26 Feb 06
Posts: 8044
Loc: Nearest Bar
PS Roy, forgot to say "I'll get you for that Butler"
_________________________
Menace to Sobriety


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#62696 - 01 Oct 07 20:34 Re: Alms or Extortion? [Re: Dilli]
Roy's Hair Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 08 Nov 06
Posts: 3974
Loc: jakarta
I hate you Al-Mohammed Butler!!!
_________________________
Chinese like more traditional patterns on their ring.

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#62736 - 02 Oct 07 07:17 Re: Alms or Extortion? [Re: Dilli]
Capt. Mainwaring Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 16 Aug 06
Posts: 3225
Loc: here
Quoting: Dilli
Fuck 'em, they get fuck all. Now as for Halloween (another bribe fest, western sanctioned) , here is a list off people who do not need to dress up

Emm, err, go to top of page and click user list. At this current point there 1632 candidates!


Typical tightwad scottish git.
_________________________
I also made a vegetarian version,with tempe and tofu chunks for myself and others.Get over it.
Kosong.Wolo.Setunggal.Setunggal.Setunggal.Kosong.Pitu.Setunggal.Kosong.Wolo=Tempik

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