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#62463 - 28 Sep 07 16:23 Myanmar's internal problem
kenyeung Moderator Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 16 Apr 07
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As the rest of the world dithers over the slaughter in Myanmar or looks the other way, Jusuf Kalla reiterates Indonesia's (and ASEAN's) firm committment to saying "tsk-tsk, it's an internal problem" and admits Ali Alatas failed to come up with a miraculous solution. Much talk of tighter international sanctions. But China, Chevron (via Unocal), Total, PTT (Thai oil company), Daewoo (South Korea), Suzuki (Nipon) et al staying put.

Photo of nine-year-old girl reportedly shot in latest crackdown, plus the Japanese photojournalist Kanji Nagai before and after being shot at point blank range.









Edited by kenyeung (28 Sep 07 17:14)

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#62470 - 28 Sep 07 18:44 Re: Myanmar's internal problem [Re: kenyeung]
Roy's Hair Offline
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ASEAN, now there's an organization with credibility
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#62478 - 28 Sep 07 20:33 Re: Myanmar's internal problem [Re: Roy's Hair]
naga Offline
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don't hold your breath on this one...if the world stood by with Rwanda/Darfur etc, they won't give a fuck about Burma...
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#62480 - 28 Sep 07 20:45 Re: Myanmar's internal problem [Re: naga]
kenyeung Moderator Offline
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At least it's a good advertisement for the Beijing Olympics if China continues to sell arms to Myanmar.

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#62482 - 28 Sep 07 20:54 Re: Myanmar's internal problem [Re: naga]
riccardo Offline
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Quoting: naga
don't hold your breath on this one...if the world stood by with Rwanda/Darfur etc, they won't give a fuck about Burma...


Actually, what makes it different is that the American gov't is SERIOUSLY keen for change in Yangon for a variety of reasons (read: oil/gas/minerals), and they had/have no such in interest in those 2 hellholes on the dark continent. And surprisingly, it's not a divisive, partisan issue in Washington, all parties agree that the USA needs to get in there.

I'd give it about one or two years -- max. The big US-based NGOs and MNCs are already gearing up to move in.
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#62486 - 28 Sep 07 21:07 Re: Myanmar's internal problem [Re: riccardo]
kenyeung Moderator Offline
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Quoting: riccardo
The big US-based NGOs and MNCs are already gearing up to move in.


Chevron might already be there. Not to mention all these:

http://www.burmacampaign.org.uk/dirty_list/dirty_list.html

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#62488 - 28 Sep 07 21:14 Re: Myanmar's internal problem [Re: kenyeung]
Roy's Hair Offline
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Why did you say Burma?? I panicked
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#62489 - 28 Sep 07 21:15 Re: Myanmar's internal problem [Re: kenyeung]
Dilli Offline
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Keny,

Oil companies move in a longer term strategy.
I can assure you that in this type of situation opportunism is far from their minds.

At this moment they will be having an HR nightmare!



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#62500 - 28 Sep 07 23:00 Re: Myanmar's internal problem [Re: Dilli]
naga Offline
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"Actually, what makes it different is that the American gov't is SERIOUSLY keen for change in Yangon for a variety of reasons (read: oil/gas/minerals), and they had/have no such in interest in those 2 hellholes on the dark continent. And surprisingly, it's not a divisive, partisan issue in Washington, all parties agree that the USA needs to get in there."

Bullshit, the US govt hasn't done shit and is not going to either; there is serious oil exploration in Sudan, several firms are already there. Why do you think arab militias are kicking people off their land? Not to raise crops....

Burma doen't even figure on Washingtons' radar, US politicians will only get off their arse if there is a quick sound bite to be had. If they let Indo off the hook after ET, they are not going to lift a finger for Burma.

They took it up the arse in Venezuela too, so now they are going to take on a military regime in Rangoon? don't think so...

"I'd give it about one or two years -- max. The big US-based NGOs and MNCs are already gearing up to move in."

NGO's are about as effective as black magic curing AIDS; Squaring up to Burma means squaring up to China and the USA doesn't have the balls or the capability to do it; they will let this one go through to the keeper and keep fuck-arsing about in the ME over oil.
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#62503 - 29 Sep 07 06:15 Re: Myanmar's internal problem [Re: naga]
Dilli Offline
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Emm, Err, Sudan is embargoed! US Interests are accordingly very low. Even the Canadian Oil Companies pulled out leaving the Chinese alone to "reap" the benefits.
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#62506 - 29 Sep 07 06:38 Re: Myanmar's internal problem [Re: Dilli]
kenyeung Moderator Offline
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Quoting: Dilli
Oil companies move in a longer term strategy.
I can assure you that in this type of situation opportunism is far from their minds. At this moment they will be having an HR nightmare!


Longer term strategy means sticking around for long-term profit, regardless of who's in power? Or "eventually there may be a regime change for the better and the revenue we generate might even trickle down to the people"? Given the present foreign oil firms had no qualms about the use of slave labor and other rights abuses during construction of pipelines they feed, sure they won't be saying "right, let's just lose all our massive investment on this and withdraw or freeze activity cos we're helping to enrich/entrench an oppressive regime". I do recall that Petro-Canada got out of Myanmar, ostensibly due to protests though maybe cos its investment wasn't showing any dividends.

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#62508 - 29 Sep 07 06:46 Re: Myanmar's internal problem [Re: kenyeung]
Dilli Offline
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I agree Keny, the long term view will ultimately pay dividends. Case in point would be Libya, where after bombing raids and lengthy embargos, ole Murmar gets back into bed with Occidental at the first opportunity.

China is the scary player! China does not pay oil-producing countries in currency. It negotiates aid and agreements, which allows it to expand its secondary trade, prising open markets for future investment and trade, including arms literally the weapons of mass repression.

Off all nations, China stands most to benefir from Myanmar, the rich gas deposits near the Thai border (already under development by PTT as you mentioned earlier) are substantial, India would be the second largest beneficiary being virtually next door.

The current sanctions on Myanmar are purely on military and technology based imports, if they were to change then as stated above, I imagine both the Chinese and Indian companies would be prepared to ignore them.

Ironically, these are the same two countries which the UN believes have the most influence over the Junta at the moment.

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#62511 - 29 Sep 07 06:59 Re: Myanmar's internal problem [Re: naga]
Capt. Mainwaring Offline
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Quoting: naga
don't hold your breath on this one...if the world stood by with Rwanda/Darfur etc, they won't give a fuck about Burma...


Given "the world's " present success in dealing with oppressive governments , perhaps it may be better to just wait and see for a bit. The Brits have failed to demonstrate that they can look after the Gurkha pensioners and already that silly old fool Brown is looking to interfere , I suppose it would help people forget the monumental fuck up in Iraq.
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#62549 - 29 Sep 07 10:46 Re: Myanmar's internal problem [Re: Capt. Mainwaring]
Roy's Hair Offline
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Adrian Levy and Cathy Scott-Clark
Saturday September 29, 2007
The Guardian


In repressive Burma, the festival of Thingyan or New Year is the only time residents can let their hair down, dousing each other with water pistols as temperatures soar. With windows tightly closed, in the midst of a military convoy, we were hurtled through it, having being handed an extraordinary invitation to attend one of the junta's cabinet meetings.

It was 2003 and beside us was Colonel Tin Hlaing, then home minister, who turned to face us and said: "I'm having a party at home later. Come over and play Thingyan [water pistols]. It'll be fun." This seemingly affable figure was the same colonel who had led the suppression of the 1988 democracy movement in which thousands were killed.

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Chinese like more traditional patterns on their ring.

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#62553 - 29 Sep 07 11:07 Re: Myanmar's internal problem [Re: Roy's Hair]
kenyeung Moderator Offline
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Registered: 16 Apr 07
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Internet restored in Myanmar today. And Myanmar Foreign Minister Nyan Win, speaking at the UN in New York, apologized for the murder of Japanese photojournalist Kenji Nagai. "Demonstrations are beginning to calm down, and we would also like to exercise restraint," he said.


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#62555 - 29 Sep 07 11:12 Re: Myanmar's internal problem [Re: kenyeung]
Dilli Offline
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It's amazing what uniforms and guns can do!
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#62571 - 29 Sep 07 15:24 Re: Myanmar's internal problem [Re: naga]
riccardo Offline
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Quoting: naga

... Bullshit, the US govt hasn't done shit and is not going to either;...
Burma doen't even figure on Washingtons' radar,...


I've provided a full answer/response to these assertions in GRSB thread entitled "Whither Burma".
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#62701 - 01 Oct 07 20:42 Re: Myanmar's internal problem [Re: riccardo]
naga Offline
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"Emm, Err, Sudan is embargoed! US Interests are accordingly very low. Even the Canadian Oil Companies pulled out leaving the Chinese alone to "reap" the benefits. "

Embargoes are only a matter of semantics; there is a certain large EU oil mnc operating freely in Sudan, so the Chinese are definitely not alone.

US-subsidiaries have been operating in Iran for decades and Iran has been subject to the same 'sanctions'; US coy's are allegedly banned from operating there, unless of course, said subsidiary has been granted exemption by VP Cheney...
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#62703 - 01 Oct 07 20:47 Re: Myanmar's internal problem [Re: naga]
Dilli Offline
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Halliburton Products and Services Ltd "HPSL" pulled out of Iran three years ago, regarding Sudan, the large EU company you speak off are trying to sell their Sudanese assets as we speak (No fucker wants them except the Chinese who want to buy in at bargain basement prices)



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#62708 - 02 Oct 07 00:45 Re: Myanmar's internal problem [Re: Dilli]
naga Offline
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Halliburton is not the only one in Iran, there are several others...
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#62754 - 02 Oct 07 08:36 Re: Myanmar's internal problem [Re: naga]
Dilli Offline
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I thought I mentioned that Halliburton had pulled out...

Halliburton in (I think) 2004 were awarded a contract with Oriental Kish for the massive South pars field and this was subsequently vetoed by the Iranian Government. This prompted Halliburton to review thier position and by 2005 chose to take any new contracts in Iran and have not done so since then

The linked report explains the situation a little better. (I am an Ex Otis International limited - OIL employee) and a lot of my friends were involved in this operation.

http://commerce.senate.gov/public/_files...onTestimony.pdf

I also perhaps spoke too soon on Total's involvement in Sudan. It appears that the block they wish to explore has become "safe" and Total are looking to restart expoloration in early 2008.

Thier primary reason for trying to sell was having an asset which was unusable, now with peace in the area, this seems to have been resolved.
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#62755 - 02 Oct 07 09:49 BURMA PETITION [Re: Dilli]
riccardo Offline
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Registered: 12 Oct 05
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Loc: Jakarta
This petition drive for Burma was sent to me by email from a lovely African Jew.



--------------------------------------
Dear friends,

Burma's generals have brought their brutal iron hand down on peaceful monks and protesters -- but in response, a massive global outcry is gathering pace. The roar of global public opinion is being heard in hundreds of protests outside Chinese and Burmese embassies, people round the world wearing the monks' color red, and on the internet-- where our petition has exploded to over 200,000 signers in just 72 hours.

People power can win this. Burma's powerful sponsor China can halt the crackdown, if it believes that its international reputation and the 2008 Olympics in Beijing depend on it. To convince the Chinese government and other key countries, Avaaz is launching a major global and Asian ad campaign on Wednesday, including full page ads in the Financial Times and other newspapers, that will deliver our message and the number of signers. We need 1 million voices to be the global roar that will get China's attention. If every one of us forwards this email to just 20 friends, we'll reach our target in the next 72 hours. Please sign the petition at the link below -if you haven't already- and forward this email to everyone you care about:

http://www.avaaz.org/en/stand_with_burma/t.php

The pressure is working - already, there are signs of splits in the Burmese Army, as some soldiers refuse to attack their own people. The brutal top General, Than Shwe, has reportedly moved his family out of the country he must fear his rule may crumble.

The Burmese people are showing incredible courage in the face of horror. We're broadcasting updates on our effort over the radio into Burma itself telling the people that growing numbers of us stand with them. Let's do everything we can to help them we have hours, not days, to do it. Please sign the petition and forward this email to at least 20 friends right now. Scroll down our petition page for details of times and events to join in the massive wave of demonstrations happening around the world at Burmese and Chinese embassies.

With hope and determination,

Ricken, Paul, Pascal, Graziela, Galit, Ben, Milena and the whole Avaaz Team
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Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

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#62756 - 02 Oct 07 09:58 Re: BURMA PETITION [Re: riccardo]
Capt. Mainwaring Offline
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Registered: 16 Aug 06
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Notwithstanding your belief that I post just to annoy the hell out of you, do you not feel this is all a bit hollow?

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I also made a vegetarian version,with tempe and tofu chunks for myself and others.Get over it.
Kosong.Wolo.Setunggal.Setunggal.Setunggal.Kosong.Pitu.Setunggal.Kosong.Wolo=Tempik

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#62757 - 02 Oct 07 10:05 Re: BURMA PETITION [Re: Capt. Mainwaring]
riccardo Offline
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Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
I actually agree with you on the hollowness aspect and did not make any judgments, just posted it for others to decide for themselves if they'd like to sign a petition.

The real irony, however, is that these same bleeding heart libs all over the world are the same mob that so despise Bush and his NeoCon gang, but with this attempt to pressure the junta they are actually playing into Bush's hand. As I've explained elsewhere, when the junta is ousted, the USA will step in and exploit the place for all its worth.
_________________________
Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

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#62758 - 02 Oct 07 10:34 Re: BURMA PETITION [Re: riccardo]
Dilli Offline
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Registered: 26 Feb 06
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The White House has been considering forcing Chevron to divest itself of the Yadan stake, according to the Wall Street Journal, but, due to the fact that the article is on a subscription page I can only link to what the NY Times says.

But an "industry official working with Chevron" told the Journal that such a move might backfire, suggesting that a sale of the company's stake "likely will bring profits to Myanmar's junta."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/29/washington/29policy.html?_r=1&ref=world&oref=slogin

Hardly the actions of a country waiting in the wings to take over...
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