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#62291 - 27 Sep 07 13:05 Blogfest 2007 -- chronology
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
Pooh Bah

Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
Loc: Centre of the Universe
For those wish to follow the Pesta Blogger saga I have compiled a digest from the email group discussion that took place over the last week or so.

The rambling nature of an email thread makes it very difficult - if not damn' nigh impossible - to keep things in chronological order, and there may be some gaps because I missed or mislaid some of the torrent of emails that flew around.

So read, digest, and make up your own mind about the genesis of Pesta Blogger.

The story starts with a message from Ong...

Ong 20/9, 3:44 pm

Fellow Blogging Brethren,

The following information is not for blogging until next Thursday evening. It's meant to give you guys a head's up on what will be announced then and also to see if you might be interested in joining in the event.

My company Maverick has been helping to organize probably the first large-scale Blogger's gathering in Indonesia. It will be held on October 27 at (tentatively) Hard Rock Cafe. It will last from 10am to 4pm. Admission is free if you register before hand.

The event is meant to get together bloggers in indonesia. It will be informal, with possibly the Minister of Information and Communication giving a very short speech followed by some words of welcome from the chairman of the event, called Pesta Blogger 2007, Enda Nasution. Enda's commonly held, for better or worse, to be the father of blogging in Indonesia. Breakout sessions follow and the groups will be divided into several areas of interest, such as public affairs, IT, women's issues, bridge blogging etc.

There will also be an informal interactive poll among participants for the favorite blogs in particular categories.

The event will host 200 bloggers.100 will be by invitation while the remaining 100 will be open to whomever registers first. As this is ostensibly an event for Indonesian bloggers, yet it wants to be inclusive of non-Indonesian bloggers blogging from Indonesia (I'm beginning to confuse myself) the non-Indonesian bloggers will be invited as "observers" to the event. I'd like to know how many of you are keen to join in.

Other information:

  • Microsoft and Nokia have agreed to be sponsors, we're still looking for two more
  • We'll be holding a press briefing on Thursday evening to "launch" the runup to Pesta Blogger
  • a Pesta Blogger site will be launched as well where you'll be able to get updates and also banners and buttons that you can download onto your blog as a show of support/prticipation
  • would be great if you guys can use your blogs to help publicise the events then
  • this is a non profit event. Maverick and Bubu.com are co-organizers but we're not making any money out of it. We believe in encouraging the growth of blogs in Indonesia.

That's it for now. If any of you would like more information, please feel free to e-mail me.

Treespotter 20/9,  4:01 pm

Sounds like a brilliant idea. One thing tho, i think the invite should be open to Indonesian Bloggers as EVERYONE who blogs about Indonesia, regardless of their nationality or current residencies. Afterall, it doesn't matter that much does it? Creating a separate observer class sounds a bit icky to me... some people might feel discriminated.

Gary 20/9,  4:47 pm

Indeed. Hear, hear! This xenophobic us-them stuff is tiresome to say the least. Many foreign residents, bloggers among them, have been here for decades, are fully ensconced within Indonesian society and have only residual links to their "home" countries, but are denied Indonesian citizenship through discriminatory laws and impossible regulations. Many so-called "expats" in Indonesia these days are, in fact, residents. They live here. They aren't just passing through.

In regard to the location, an Australian "blogger" had this to say:

Adiguna's PT Mugi Rekso Abadi still has the main stake in Hard Rock Cafe Jakarta. Should not only be boycotted, but closed down. Can't imagine why anyone would want to go there, unless to advise the staff to stop working for a murderer, and advise patrons to spend their money elsewhere.

Rich 20/9,  4:51 pm

Curiouser and curiouser...
This Pesta Blog thingie sounds like a cool gig, but I think it’s quite screwed up that the "foreign" elements will be relegated to 2nd-class status.

Let's see... It's being hosted by Hard Rock (foreign company/brand), sponsored by Nokia and Microsoft (both foreign) and organised by Unspun (foreign).

Further, how is this sort of crass segregation justified in the minds of seemingly educated people in the year 2007? If bloggers were gathering for a meeting in Sydney or London or Berlin or Rio or LA (all multicultural cities with plenty of non-citizens blogging from those places), would it even cross anyone's mind to relegate the non-citizens to 2nd-class status?? It would be an outrage if they tried and well it should.

Is it not enough that most of us and our children have enough troubles with the ignoramus bureaucrats over our foreigner status? Does it also have to extend to blog-dom?

Treespotter 20/9,  4:59

bleeeeek... short fused crowd, aren't we here? It's ramadan guys, keep the temper down and chill out a bit. i can't spell xenophobes, much less starting a social movement for affirmative action.

as for the MRA ownership in HRC, i'm just wondering if the sentiment is limited to adiguna or does it apply to other troubled tycoons as well? in which case there will be an awful lot of places that we cant go to and we will all be stuck having dinner in Blok M?

Jakartass 20/9,  6:52 pm

Nice idea and, yes, like Indcoup, Treespotter and Riccardo, I'd be pleased to come along to Pesta Blogger. However, I do have a similar question: what do you mean by "non-Indonesian bloggers"? Do you mean expats like you, me and Indcoup?

Or do you mean non-Indonesian resident bloggers such as Carl Parkes (in San Francisco)? Or do you mean non-Indonesian, non-Jakarta resident bloggers such as Dominic and Patung in Surabaya and Nick and Pentonarc in Bali? Or do you mean non-Indonesian non-Jakarta resident non-bloggers such as my son Sam Collins and his business partner, Tim Willcox in London, Leonard Lueras in Bali and Andre Vltchek (somewhere in Asia)?

Or do you mean non-Indonesian non-bloggers, such as Riccardo and Gary Dean? (Jakchat does use the hyperspace to fill a need for hypergossip and the occasional 'big issue'.)

Noting that noted Indonesians writing about Indonesia, although not blogging, are included, such as Bill Guerin, Andre Vltchek and Leonard Leuras, I wonder why you haven't included Duncan Graham and Simon Pitchforth, both regular contributors to The Jakarta Post and, what's more relevant, both maintaining blogs to archive their print articles.

As there are very few non-Indonesian bloggers here, even in Jakarta, so I (we?) feel that we should all be accorded invitee status. If you want to pump up the pomp, then rank us according to our seniority in, say, the Technorati rankings, or the frequency of our posts.

 

Ong 21/9,  8:49 am

I hear you guys. For the record, the definition of Indonesian blogger is an Indonesian national, meaning you hold an Indonesian passport. What that means is that I am, strictly speaking, an observer as well.

I understand you can take it that it as some form of xenophobic (did I get the spelling right?) manifestation but it would be reading too much into it.

When it comes to things like that I belong to the Deng Xiaoping school of practicality: It doesn't matter whether the cat is white or black, so long as it catches mice. As you may know, I've been instrumental in organizing this event yet I encouraged it to be an Indonesian affair (therefore discriminating against myself, if you choose to look at it that way) is that it should be just that - a Pesta Blogger for Indonesians. Part of the reason for the event is to encourage bloggers to get together and encourage blogging.

I consider it a privilege to be invited as observers or guests to this Indonesian affair. (In fact I consider it an even greater privilege that they haven't quite noticed or care that I'm not Indonesian and seem to treat me as one of them). I hope that you guys would take it in that spirit too. After all, at the end of the day, unless we are willing to change our passports into Indonesian ones, we are still guests in this country so I say let's act as good guests and consider it a privilege if we get accepted by Indonesians.

So much for that. On the venue: We chose the venue for the space, the AV facilities (we wanted a place with a screen to project screen grabs of blogs and an interactive polling we'll be having on that day).We also are constrained by budget - the original plan was to have it at XXI but it was too expensive.

Fair enough to for you guys to object to Hard Rock. Please provide an alternative then. There is still time for us to change the venue - it has to accommodate 200-220 people, with a screen or projection facilities, have space for booths etc.

So the bottom line:

1. The Pesta Blogger would welcome you as guests and it is up to you to look at this as a inclusive or exclusive gesture.

2. The venue stays unless any of you can provide a better alternative.

3. Those of you who would like to attend as guests please let me know by Tuesday next week.

Cheers and have a good weekend,

 Indcoup 21/9,  12:48 pm

You couldn't make it up could you? Absolutely incredible...

cheers...

Rich 21/9,  1:51 pm

Doesn't this inexplicable segregation based on skin colour totally fly in the face of everything that blogging (and indeed "web 2.0") stands for? A group of bloggers couldn't get away with this in other multicultural places with non-citizen bloggers, why is such segregation acceptable in Indonesia? And what, if any, purpose does it serve to exclude this blogger or that blogger based on the passport one carries? I've never had a blog site ask me for passport number. Why should that matter in the realm of the blogosphere?

Lots of questions, but the one I'm really curious about is why the exclusion, why the 2nd class status?

Sorry to be a pain in anyone's buttock, just truly curious.

 

Treespotter 21/9, 2:28 pm

oh, come off it..!

Had we been talking about ice cream flavors, you'll be bitching on the same thing. It's about time you get some vinegar with that chips. Seggregations? Who am i talking to Dr. King?

For the record, i think everyone should be invited equally. But that's just a suggestion, and Ong's previous mail does make sense. In any case, i'm in for some good time regardless.

The next person who talk about racism and affirmative actions seriously need to take some chill pill in extra large dose. In a bathtub without internet connection, preferably.

I appreciate that you realised that you're being a pain in the ass. Frankly, you truly are. That's a status on its own, really, regardless of the passport.

have a good weekend all.

Ong 21/9,  2:44 pm

Rich,

Yes, I think you are a pain, really, because you are now mixing arguments: segregation based on skin color and segregation based on nationality.

We have different skin colors. You're pigmentally challenged (white) I'm pigmentally gifted (brown) yet I choose to see it as a privilege to be included as a guest. So enough already with the need to feel segregated.

As for nationality, I think my explanation before is adequate.

You know, maybe in all this is a lesson: That when you're in someone else's house you're a guest. You have to work at it to be accepted as one of them, otherwise you remain a guest, a welcome one if you make nice, an unwelcome one if you don't. being accepted by others is a privilege, not a right. Just like being liked.

But we can all go on with the polemic for so much. The choice is yours, you can join in or you can stay out. The Pesta Blogger will go on, the lesser or the more with/out your participation. You cn help it grow and guide it toward a more enlighten direction as you see it or you can stay at the sidelines being negative about it. I would prefer your help in making this a successful beginning to better things.

Rich 21/9,  3:21 pm

Okay then... now I understand.

Treespotter 21/9,  3:26 pm

you understand that you're being a dick?

 

Treespotter 21/9,  3:50 pm

Ong,

I've been to many bloggers gathering all over the world, usually the criteria is simple, you keep a blog, you can come. I'm sure that's a fairly simple criteria. This isn't about being a guest in this country or another, it's about what we do, which is blogging.

I was talking to Enda on a separate list and i mentioned the same thing, there's no point of being elitists on the web. I think that defies the spirit of blogging in the first place. But I'm sure you guys have other considerations etc, sponsors would pay only for targeted audience? lol -- I'm a smut publisher, how do i fit?

Except for assholes, assholes can't come. Assholes should stay in Jakchat and die. Or bathtub. Not because of their passport or skin colour, but simply because assholes like them lot should be locked up.

Anyhow... am i still invited?

PS: i'm cc'ing Enda on this mail, too. The father of all blogger should speak.

 

Enda 21/9,  4:25 pm

Hi Guys,

Thank you for adding me to this list.

Pesta Blogger 2007 and Indonesian blogosphere would not be complete without you guys and your support all this time.

So please come if you can, whether as "observers" or as "just another participant". I can assure you that we will not make that distinction at the event. You won't feel like 2nd class citizen that can't vote but still have to pay taxes. You can still vote and there won't be any taxes to pay.

At the breakout session, we plan to have one topic that will discuss about bridge blogging, that is Indonesian who blogs in english or Indonesian based bloggers or bloggers that blogs about Indonesia, which I think will be one of the exciting session to be in. Reading this thread I believe we will have much to discuss. :)

It is our first event, and I am grateful that Ong and Maverick is initiating and organizing this it. We are learning by doing on how to run this kind of event for bloggers here and we will need every help and support that we can get, so please don't put too much worry about the "label", the important thing is that you support and come to this event.

I believe it was Ong intention to invite every one of you, but we do need to check beforehand whether you can actually come since the invitation is limited to 100. However, if you have friends, colleagues, families who blogs that also want to come, we will have an open online registration, first come first serve basis that we will announce later.

And no, assholes still can't come. :D

 

Jakartass 21/9,  10:27 pm

There are so many issues at stake here that I'm not sure where to begin.

Firstly though, I think Ong will (have to) agree that somewhere along the line he's upset our susceptibilities.

Like others not happy at being 'excluded' on the whim of a fellow expat, I do feel aggrieved, but this is mainly because of a very false and assumptive labelling. I didn't originally think that Ong is/was being discriminatory in terms of skin colour - that is until I read his (tongue-in-cheek?) comment: (Riccardo is) pigmentally challenged (white), I'm pigmentally gifted (brown).

The discrimination I feel is because I certainly don't feel that I'm a 'guest' here; I'm married to an Indonesian, have put a niece of my wife through high school and am now raising 'Our Kid', another Indonesian. My English funds have been 'invested' here - in the wife's name naturally - and I've only returned to the UK once since I arrived - twenty years ago for my mother's last weeks. My life (and pending death) is here. Furthermore, like several of my friends (and fellow bloggers) I am not a leech, earning a living from the crumbs dropping from corporate feasts. Rather, in my earning capacity I'm contributing to the development of Indonesian society whilst trying to uphold the pluralistic sensibilities.

Secondly, in terms of blogging, Jakartass was one of the earliest blogs commenting on societal matters in Indonesia. That this is backed up by the number of blogs which give Jakartass a permanent link is incidental, although testimonials such as this one from BBC Radio Five live - "We should mention the excellent Jakartass blog, well worth a read for coverage of events in Indonesia" - certainly gives me a sense of having contributed more than one would expect a mere 'guest' to have given.

I have also done my bit "to encourage Indonesian blogging" by regularly giving plugs to interesting blogs which, in my definition of 'interesting' go beyond the "I hit the boyfriend, kissed the cat, did my homework assignment and then went shopping" scenario. Also, judging by my Technorati (Jakartass Authority: 54 Rank: 107,981 ~ out of "currently tracking" 106.2 million blogs) and Indonesia Blog ratings (dropping like a stone ~ "Jakartass" is ranked 516 of 4324 blogs registered), Jakartass surely qualifies me for a straight invitation.

Certainly I, in my Jakartass persona, won't waste a Saturday as an 'observer'.

"Hello, and who are you?"
"Hi, I'm Jakartass."
"Oh, how nice to meet you, and what do you think about ....?"
"Oh, I'm only here as an observer, so I'm not at liberty to comment - but please do carry on."

So, yeah, I really feel aggrieved.

However, I am open to a straight, no barrier, respectful invitation to attend Pesta Blogger because a. I believe I've earned it and b. because, as I have oft stated and try to demonstrate in my posts - as you do Ong - there is a need in this country for more critical thinking. In encouraging debate and dissent, we are breaking the acquiescent mindset inculcated by decades of Suhartoism.

Having the Minister of Communications in a Q & A session would be of immense value. We need to tell him that there is a dire need for a telecommunications infrastructure that will enable poorer Indonesians to actually communicate, thereby gaining access to further education, as well as exercising their 'democratic' and constitutional rights to free speech. It's no good Lippo advertising their broadband services and then targeting the enclaves of the wealthy. That won't enfranchise the less well-off to break into the online shopping services!

Try and get those government ministers who also blog - and folk like Wimar Witoelar - to attend. They are needed to articulate and demonstrate that giving the citizenry a 'free' outlet for voicing aspirations and ideals can only benefit the growth of Indonesian society, which we long-term residents are a part of.

Blogging can be a power for the immediate good of the community. Ask Enda N. about the value of Indonesia Help in the aftermaths of the Aceh Tsunami and the Yogya Earthquake. Ask the BBC and the (UK) Observer and Guardian newspapers, who contacted me following a. the Bali Bomb - I put them in touch with Nick, and this year's Jakarta floods (an MP3 of my interview is available on request).

We expat bloggers have reached the wider world. And Indonesian bloggers in the wider world have reached back into Indonesia. Why should arbitrary and artificial barriers be created here on a personal whim?

My conclusion is simple: Ong, please withdraw your original invitation and reissue it with no first and second class divisions.

If you do, I accept. If you don't, then I may well help promote (and blog about) the proposal circulating behind this email thread. That is, to have a Not-The-Pesta-Blogger Pesta running concurrently, albeit nearby and starting at a more civilised – later - hour.

Now that would be a truly you-and-us scenario.

And so unnecessary.

 

Jakartass 22/9,  1:47 pm

The recent 'invitation' from Ong to attend the Pesta Blogger as observers may well be an afterthought, because there could be a problem attracting 200 attendees.
How else would you account for the following chronology?

Aug 13
First entry on Pesta Blogger website ~ "Suara baru Indonesia" = Indonesia's new sound (although 'whisper' may be a more appropriate word).

Sept 3rd
Jakarta Today (which gives Jakartass a permanent link) has the following: Awal Agustus lalu para pro-blogger Indonesia (Are you a pro-blogger?) seperti Mas Budi Putra , Bang Enda , Ong Hock Chuan, Mbak Lita dan lain-lain sedang menyusun rencana akan adanya sebuah acara khusus untuk para blogger Indonesia dengan nama Pesta Blogger 2007.

Now ask yourself why Ong 'invited’ us with the words: "The following information is not for blogging until next Thursday evening. It's meant to give you guys a head’s up on what will be announced then and also o see if you might be interested in joining in the event."

If the launch is embargoed, how come you can find their logo here? Hardly "heads up", and in fact closer examination reveals that there are other ulterior motives.

I came across the notion of a Pesta Blogger some time ago, stemming as it does from a self-styled 'professional blogger', Budi Putra. In June this year, he described himself as “CEO of PT Asia Blog Network, a new company specialised in blogging and Web 2.0.” The aim of the launch was clearly stated: "AsiaBlogging.com would mark a new era in Indonesian blogosphere: paid blogging era. ... It has been common in America and Europe, but it is still fresh in Asia and here in Indonesia.”

He does say: "However, the main point is not about the payment. We give opportunites (sic) for anyone to blog about their own interests, so they will blog with love and enthusiasm. No need to care about the domain or hosting. They just need to write.”

Ah, but we do Budi, we do. Considering his condescension, we're well off without his patronage; except he needs us, if only to get his commission from the corporate sponsors who've bought into his scam. Or has he bought into theirs?

Is it possible that Microsoft and Nokia won't be interested in sponsoring this masturbatory meeting if 200 bloggers, with a few white faces as observers, don't attend? The shame is that the majority of the bloggers who seemingly support the Asia Blogging Network, judging by the links, are mainly writing about the latest gadgets in the informatics world or the Scotch mist that is Web 2.0. Of course, this is why Microsoft and Nokia are involved ~ Pesta Blogger is designed to be a market place rather than a forum where meaningful topics can be discussed.

Proof? Check out this page.

Much as I admire and trust Enda, I think he's (you've) been hoodwinked too. At least you suggest that there is an interesting topic - bridging blogs - to discuss, but this is as limited as discussing those ephemeral gadgets we're expected to buy.

A bloggers' meet has a need for a clearly defined agenda. The following are examples of topics I'd like to see discussed: the need for an adequate nationwide telecommunications infrastructure; bloggers and Indonesian law; the role of blogs in increasing critical thinking, campaigning, encouraging creative writing and literacy; and, above all, defending free speech.

If Pesta Blogger 2007 is mere PR for a few self-appointed blog 'experts' and a marketing exercise, then I would only accept an invitation in return for a Nokia phone and a free copy of Vista. Oh, and a Hard Rock Cafe T-shirt, size XXL.

Cheers,

Jakartass

PS. Expect me to blog about this before next Thursday.

 

Gary 22/9,  2:07 pm

I've been holding off commenting publicly on this because of the perceived embargo.  However, it seems that it's only embargoed for foreigners!

 

Rich 22/9,  3:19 pm

Stop the presses!!

I just had an epiphany of sorts.

Okay, here's the deal. Whether or not they were getting worried about getting a good crowd in there, I think perhaps Unspun and co. may be trying to play all of us -- big time -- in order to up the ante and get people emotionally involved.

Being a PR pro, he well understands the old adage 'negative publicity is still publicity.' I am theorizing that he set this whole thing up to get us all a bit irked (by tossing in the observer status, the embargo etc.) then, in a pre-meditated move, used his little pit bull, treesplogger, to write those way over-the-top, puerile responses, which, even for him, seemed quite contrived.

Now, their thinking is probably along the lines of getting as many Indonesians in there as possible; and to boost the spirit, camaraderie and emotions. So... what better way than to appeal to Indonesians' (particularly Javanese, who seem to dominate the blogging scene) sense of entitlement, nationalism, patriotism, tribalism and general anti-foreign attitudes.

If we "pigmentally challenged" bloggers start stirring up a storm - they are reasoning - then it will indeed draw all other members of the "tribe" to come out, if for no other reason, for a show of force or solidarity against blog-imperialism by the "pigmentally challenged."

I'd say tread very carefully with our blogging. Maybe the best response is total silence.

 

Gary 23/9,  3:45 pm

This whole thing is increasingly looking like a commercial venture, with Ong's firm and others wishing to monetise the "local" "blogging" community.

I enquired about being a sponsor. I offered Rp 10 million; was told minimum was Rp 50 million. Was told these things are expensive to run, what with having to cater for 200 people. Let’s see; that's Rp 250,000 per person. Given that Microsoft and Nokia are also presumably contributing the same amount, total per head is therefore Rp 750,000.

Of course, if only 100 turn up, as has been mentioned, that means Rp 1.5 million per head.

The Jakarta Post and other mainstream media are co-sponsors who will be promoting the event, thus no expenditure on advertising at all.

Does this all add up now?

 

Jakartass 22/9,  6:54 pm

 

Hi Rich.

I think, as does the Reveller, that we have an issue to make a noise about, particularly given the 'nationalism' being displayed.

 

Ong 23/9,  9:14 pm

Jakartass,

This shall be my last mail on this matter as it is getting tiresome and I wonder what is really the cause of so much bitterness in you.

I am writing this only because others have also contributed to this event and it would not be fair for you to take it out on an event they have a stake in because you are unhappy with me.

I really do not know why you are so worked up because the "pigment" statement that seems to have triggered all this vitriol was obviously, as you yourself has identified, tongue-in-cheek.

The facts here are that Maverick, myself and Bubu.com are helping to organize this event, but decisions are being made by a steering committee that includes Enda, Budi Putra, Wimar Witoelar, Nukman Luthfie, Wicaksono, Lita, Atta and Fatih Syuhud among others. The steering committee made the decisions. As a steering committee member I took part in the decision making. So it is not, as you said, a case of a single expat making arbitrary decisions.

I had asked all of you to embargo this until Thursday evening because we were planning a press briefing on that day. We thought that if people can blog about it after that it would be a good wave of publicity for Pesta Blogger. Word of this has got out as some people have jumped the gun. Fatih, for instance, blogged about this much earlier when we sent him the minutes of one of our early meetings. We told him he was not supposed to jump the gun then, but not a big deal where we are concerned. As I said it would be better if there was a wave of publicity starting from next Thursday. This isn't exactly top secret stuff. and Budi set up the Pestablogger.com site on the steering committee's request.

As for the sponsors, Microsoft and Nokia, they have confirmed their sponsorship and if you want to check up I'd be happy to give you the contact numbers of the people we have been dealing with.

I understand that you may be angry with me and if you want to blog about what a bad person I am please go ahead. It's your right. But do not let your anger at me be so destructive and vindictive that it is directed at the Pesta Blogger, in which other members of the Steering Committee have worked very hard to bring things to this stage. Enda has also written that he on behalf of the steering committee welcomes all expats to the event. If you are still unhappy with the observer or guest status Enda and/or I can bring it to the Steering Committee for a review.

There is a civilized way of settling disagreements and there is the bully's method of my-way-or-the-highway. You do what you must, but I urge you to consider the possible repercussions to others before taking any action.

 

Indcoup 22/9,  9:35 pm

Yep – looking back on it now, it’s pretty obvious he’s staged it – with the help of Treespotter.

Ong knows very well who the expat bloggers are in Indonesia, so why did he send out invites to people who are not even bloggers and also to people he has made no secret of not liking? (No offence Rich!)

And moreover, why are people like Wagster and Brandon (Java Jive) conspicuously missing from this list? (Brandon’s done work for Treespotter by the way). My guess is they have been invited separately – but I haven’t checked yet.

Interestingly, of the people invited to the event, about half are going to be on free invites and the others are expected to cough up Rp 200,000. If 200 people have to pay, that’s obviously Rp 40 million. And why give the free invites to the expats, and expect the Indonesian bloggers to pay? Well, because he knew full well we wouldn’t accept the offer to be “observers” in the first place, and I think Rich could well be right that Ong expected Jakartass, myself and others to blog negatively on this. As Rich notes, this would have greatly improved Ong’s “Indonesian” credentials among Indonesian bloggers – especially so soon after the anti-Malaysia hyperbole, which may have affected his business. There is nothing like anti-foreign rhetoric to get the Indonesian bloggers to part with their money.

As for the response, silence is a good option; the only other being something a little more subversive – gate crashing anyone? Not sure what Nokia and the other sponsors would make of this either – but then they are probably just in it to have so-called “bloggers” writing rave reviews of their latest products.

 

Jakartass 22/9,  10:54 pm

Hi Ong.

First up, let me state that I'm not upset with you because of your comment about pigmentation. As you've noted, I've given you the benefit of doubt on that.

No, what gets my goat, and that of at least four of the others on this CC list, is your total disingenuousness and lack of 'solidarity' with your fellow expat bloggers.

We dislike being used for someone else's financial gain.

You - meaning the steering committee - will be taking a minimum of Rp 200 million in sponsorship income and, assuming the unlikely event that you will get 100 folk to pay to attend, will be looking to receive another Rp 20 million in entrance fees. It would appear that if no-one is taking an 'honorarium' then you are budgeting over Rp 1 million per person, less the cost of hiring Hard Rock Cafe.

And to what end?

You haven't said anything about an agenda, other than it's an event to encourage folk to blog. But if the invitees (and observers) are already doing that, why spend all that money to preach to the converted ~ when we don't need your bloody help anyway?!?

Just what is your motivation?

If it's a corporate exercise, then just say so and don't try to patronise us. It's not a matter of "my-way-or-the-highway" ~ that's your method; seemingly to use us.

Our objection is quite simple: You have no clear objective other than organising a commercial promotion designed to take advantage of attendees. Nothing you, or anyone else, have written convinces us otherwise and we expect you will fail in your objective, assuming that you have anything other than short-term pocket money in mind. In itself, that failure will probably enhance the blogosphere here (and elsewhere) given that blogging is an organic movement, and a cooperative network*, which is not only free in financial terms, but also free in true democratic, some might say anarchic, terms. Those of us who have been excluded from the self-appointed inner circle will carry on exercising our freedom (and right) to write.

And, unfortunately, to smirk from the sidelines.

Cheers,

Jakartass

PS. I somehow doubt that this will be my last email given that many of us remain rather upset by your initial 'invitation'.

* Please note that in my rewrite of ‘Culture Shock - Jakarta’ I have given full acknowledgements to my fellow bloggers here ~ including you. Also note that when it comes to being paid for blogging, I occasionally get paid for my writing … because I blog.

 

Reveller 23/9,  9:07 am

Greetings one and all:

I have been standing on the cyber sidelines over the last few days watching this fascinating saga unfold, but now it's time to cast off my Olympian detachment and wade in with my pennyworth.

Ong is wrong to see bitterness in anybody's correspondence, or to read anyone's reactions as indicating that they are in any way upset. He does not see (or wish) to understand that anger is a natural and healthy response to something that is, whichever way you cut it, just plain bad. Ong is also wrong in perceiving Jakartass's comments as directed at him personally. Jakartass has consistently questioned the underlying motives and personal agendas of the organisers of 'Pesta Blogger' and not made a single unwarranted comment on any individual. It was not Jakartass who threw the nationality or the race cards onto the table, it was not Jakartass who created the 'us' and 'them' dichotomy of this ‘adver-ganza.’

What has become depressingly clear is that the whole shebang is a commercial enterprise, and that 'Pesta Blogger' is primarily a money-making venture. The figures that have been bandied around - if correct - are clear evidence that people are being taken for a ride. As far as I can see - and do correct me if I am wrong, anybody - the income from this event will be income for the self-styled 'Asia Blog Network'. I'd be very interested to see the budget estimates and income-disposal plan for Pesta Blogger, which should, in any case, have been made public - unless someone had something to hide.

To broaden the view and put this event into perspective, it angers me to see the hijack of blogging around the world by commercial and political interests. Blogging is, in its essence, a personal and disinterested activity, a digital soapbox, possibly the greatest force for democracy of modern times. Once you take payment for your efforts, you are no longer independent. You are beholden to your paymaster. You cross the line between amateur and professional. In effect, you become at best a journalist, at worst a paid hack. Some bloggers write what are, in effect, advertorials; others plaster their scribbles with advertisements. They are, in my book, no longer bloggers.

There is something anarchic about being a blogger. To join a blogging collective you risk becoming a blorg (a word inspired by Star Trek's Borg), and paying for a hosting service that is available gratis from any number of excellent Internet companies. Organised blogging is an oxymoron. To try to persuade would-be bloggers that they can't cut it without paying a levy to a 'supportive' profit-making organisation is sad - but to sell the notion of a national or regional blogging community is bad. Blogging is about unifying the global community, not perpetuating nationalistic and/or racial attitudes that belong to the past.

My final word is a quotation from Alexander Pope. "Ask you what provocation I have had? The strong antipathy of good to bad."

Blog on, comrades!

 

Jakartass 23/9,  4:19 pm

Ong.

I'm going to reply to your email point-by-point.

I am taking this offline as I have said I would not be broadcasting my e-mails in this thread anymore. In writing this letter I am aware that you can easily forward it to all and sundry but I rely on you being a gentleman about this, as it seems a misunderstanding that needs to be settled between the two of us.

Please don't appeal to my 'Englishness'. I am a 'world citizen' who tries to live a fairly normal lifestyle, which is one that has due regard for others, whatever their class, creed, culture etc. In fact, I cherish differences except when they impinge on the rights of others. Hence I will continue to rail against bigotry and/or nationalism based on jingoism and ethnocentrism, as well as exploitation of individuals and/or groups for any personal or commercial gain, which has little to no communal benefit.

Also, please note that in replying to you, it's because you say you represent the steering committee. If anything, the core argument is against Budi Putra and his Asia Blog Network as he is the one who has attempted to subvert the 'Asian' blogosphere - a free network for free speech - to his commercial ends. And, sorry, but this email cannot remain between the two of us because I am merely articulating the thoughts and comments of others. Nothing I've written to the group has not been discussed, offline as it were, with two or three others. Have a reread of The Reveller's email to understand the stance of the majority of those of us in this thread. We are, in fact, stating our respect for the pluralism that we are encouraged to foster.

Anyway, other interested parties, such as Bill G., have written to me to suggest that they are enjoying the discourse.

"...... it's like rubber necking at a traffic accident, fun to watch, glad I'm not in the middle of it."

The Pesta Blogger is a not for profit event. All the money raised will be used for the event. So far we have raised about 60% of the costs of renting the venue. We wanted to get sponsors so that we can make the event, with lunch, free for bloggers. Just try calling up hard Rock and ask them for ball park costings fo an event taking both their floors and lunch for 200 people and see what the figure is. There is hardly any money left and in fact right now we run the risk of being in the red if new sponsors do not come in. All plans and expenditure is reported to the Steering Committee. When we complete the event we'll publish the accounts in the blog. You will be welcome to scrutinize them then.

I am not, nor have not, accused anyone of financial malfeasance. The figures I quoted came from a potential sponsor who enquired (of whom, I don't know) but decided that the potential returns did not match the asked-for outlay. The objections (note the plural and that a number of us have a sub-email thread running) come from the notion that our 'independence' can be bought. This probably comes from our western cultural values, which go back some 250 years. As Voltaire (1694-1778) reputedly said: "I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

However, hyperspace attracts leeches, those who believe that a pen is of greater importance than what is written with it. Spamming is one example, and trying to commercialise the writings of private citizens is yet one more example.

But don't take my word for it. Ask Enda or Wimar, whom you seem to have a high regard for, if you want and see if they will verify what I say.

Hey, I'm not impugning anyone's integrity here. It's the motivation that is at stake, and you have so far given no reason for holding Pesta Blogger, other than that it's an opportunity for a free nosh.

I do not know why you are so cynical but there are people out there who genuinely think it would be a good idea to get bloggers together. I am one of those because I blog and have some manpower in my office that I can use to help make the gathering a reality. That is why we are the organizer.

Your absence from the last Blogfest was noted and the fact that you didn't engage with anyone, other than briefly with me, at the previous one. You kept pestering me with the notion of having them "better organised", whereas we believed that there was absolutely no need for formalising the 'events'. Whoever came was welcome. We also recall that it was you who asked if Indonesian bloggers were welcome, to which we replied that "whoever came was welcome". And no-one needed to be an "organiser".

I also do not know from where you get the impression that the expat bloggers are so important for financial gain.

I don't know where you get the impression that I get that impression ……..

The truth is that expat bloggers are not a big factor in the Indonesian bloggersphere.

Maybe within the Indonesian blogosphere (note spelling) we are outnumbered and seemingly insignificant, but check the stats of Jakartass, Indcoup, The Reveller etc. etc. and you'll note that our readership is worldwide ~ and we're known as Indonesian blogs because our major topic is not technology, widgets, gadgets, gizmos but .... Indonesia. I've already circulated my 'reference' from the BBC who, following the Bali Bombs asked for my assistance in contacting Nick. We English language bloggers are the link to the outside world.

Surely incidents like this, and the power of blogs such as Indonesia Help, which Enda set up and I became his 'assistant', are of greater value

You may also note that when I started Jakartass, there were very few Indonesians blogging: Enda and Isman in Bandung are the two I recall. That so many Indonesian bloggers have written since to thank me for my encouragement is reward in itself.

(And I include my blog as an expat blog as well).

Your stats possibly indicate that your readership is much wider than just Indonesia, especially as, of late, it seems that Malaysia has returned as your main focus.

If all of us died tomorrow and do not go to the Pesta Blogger, the sponsors will still come in because it is the Indonesian bloggers that are an important "market" for them. To even think that we make a difference is so full of self puffery it borders on delusion..

And there you've actually admitted it: "the sponsors will still come in because it is the Indonesian bloggers that are an important "market" for them." Finally you admit the 'truth'.

In fact the expat bloggers are so small a factor that they were not an item of discussion in our meetings. Until I had to shoot my big mouth and said maybe we should invite them, so that there would be more diversity.

So why did you shoot your big mouth off? Until you did, that expat bloggers weren't a separate category indicates that the steering committee was being inclusive. It does seem to be you fostering a non-pluralistic outlook, an attitude which is unbefitting a 'guest' in this country.

Well, no good deed goes unpunished, and I am paying my dues now.

No-one is trying to 'punish' you. Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that we're not out to get you. Except we're not. Besides, maybe you have a masochistic tendency and all this antagonism you've stirred is merely feeding your rampant ego.

Or maybe not.

Please don't insult me with the accusation of me trying to make a fast buck out of this event. I make enough from my company to have a good life and I have no need to make money through stealth. To question someone's integrity without a full grasp of the facts and information, I think, is just not fair.

I thought I made it clear in my last email that in using 'you' I meant it generically.

I have noticed that you are so bitter at things that I wonder if you suffer from piles or have a deep resentment of how life has treated you. I believe you have a lot of integrity and a strong sense of right and wrong. But also a lot of resentment and anger that sometimes blinds you with cynicism.

What a strange comment. Most folk feel that my articles are quite balanced ~ challenging maybe, but still balanced. Don't confuse Jakartass with the real me.

I wish you would just take a step back and reassess things instead of leaping to conclusions.

Allow me to bounce this straight back to you.

As you wrote to Rich:

You can help (Pesta Blogger) grow and guide it toward a more enlighten direction as you see it or you can stay at the sidelines being negative about it. I would prefer your help in making this a successful beginning to better things.

I would have thought that it is obvious that in running blogs and/or forums we are encouraging debate and critical thinking. We are also broadening perspectives beyond the parochial. We would undoubtedly support Pesta Blogger if it had an agenda to encourage those areas of thinking and expression. You and your committee are 'self-appointed' and in wishing to give direction to something which is essentially organic you are displaying Suhartoist tendencies. Why on earth would you wish to control something when you don't even understand its power?

You act like an untrained lion tamer sticking your head in a lion's mouth. Or, in an analogy given to me by one of the recipients in this thread, there is a whiff of jealousy in much that you've said: you are like a baby screaming for its dummy ~ which you keep spitting out. In other words, you aren't content with what you've got. .

Hyperspace has become what was forecast by Marshall McLuhan ~ a global village ~ and blogging is a genie that won't be, can't be, put back in its bottle, nor can it be labelled or categorised. (However, blog templates make very handy catalogues ~ as Budi Putra has ably demonstrated with his Asia Blogging Network.)

So, if you're serious in wanting our involvement, perhaps in enabling discussions, such as those I've suggested, say so. Otherwise, we won't be "on the sidelines" ~ we will be conspicuous by our absence.

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#62295 - 27 Sep 07 13:13 Re: Blogfest 2007 -- chronology [Re: KuKuKaChu]
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
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Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
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Jakartass 23/9,  4:21 pm

I do feel that there is information lacking in this thread, information from Ong which basically substantiates what we are saying, including the Rev's well-expressed comment: Blogging is about unifying the global community, not perpetuating nationalistic and/or racial attitudes that belong to the past"

So, to sum up, those of us who have been criticising Ong for his invitation to us to attend Pesta Blogger as (mere) observers are the very people who have attended the three Blogfests held so far, four if we include Roy's farewell. We are in favour of bloggers gathering, socialising and, hey ~ it would be nice if ~ agreeing on a campaign issue.

And that is what this thread has become ~ a campaign in favour of self-administered responsible expression, with no moral arbiters determining who can say what and to whom. We do not deny the rights of anyone to seek commercial sponsorship or to seek to make an income from using a blog template. But that is not blogging.

Personally, I don't like ~ possibly because I don't have broadband ~ forums and chat lines, not if thoughts are expressed instantaneously. Good writing like yours, and hopefully much of mine, is reasoned and that takes time. However, JakChat obviously fills a need and is part of the 'global village'.

I suspect that this is an issue, a genie, which now cannot be bottled. None of us is speaking for anyone else, yet we seemingly agree that it's fairly obvious and unfortunate that Ong has let his prejudices slip. Before he "shot his mouth" the steering committee hadn't included or excluded us. Expat bloggers were not a separate issue and no doubt would have received a straight invitation. Ong has also admitted that the Indonesian bloggers are a perceived 'market' for the sponsors, thereby establishing what he refused to admit earlier, that Pesta Blogger 2007 is perceived to be a commercial venture.

Softsell 23/9,  5:35 pm

“The truth is that expat bloggers are not a big factor in the Indonesian bloggersphere”? Ergo, Indonesian bloggers ARE? Bit like the state of Indonesian journalism you know - "Indonesians should be the ones writing about Indonesia” one of them once said to Keith Loveard one of my mentors - he agreed, as I do, but don't hold your breath.........You are dead right Tel - you English-language bloggers are the link to the outside world - that's recognition with a capital R.........XXX was constructively dismissed by a crowd of has-beens who managed to persuade Laksamana Sukardi to change his world-class Laksamana Net to a blog. Fine, except they forgot that XXX was the poorly paid slave who brought in the big hits. They even removed the Laksamana.net database of articles from cyberspace - gone forever - just like any serious interest in “Paras Indonesia"!

”In fact the expat bloggers are so small a factor that they were not an item of discussion in our meetings. Until I had to shoot my big mouth and said maybe we should invite them, so that there would be more diversity. Not an item of discussion in our meetings", he tells you in what he fondly imagines would be a private aside (! !) yet has pulled me out of the shadows - with his angelic missives that hinted that really it was not about racism and nationalism. And I fell for it - Rich was right again - but I am out of the cage now and raring to go. His 'offline' approach to you, as he called it (confusing in deed), telling a different story altogether puts him in the class of 'not a gentleman,' i.e., not to be trusted!!

What's pissed me off is that I really think new Indonesian bloggers not only deserve help, but will need it. Don't have a problem with sponsors getting value for money at all, but I do wonder if those who are going to be forced to pay for entry realise that this event is a subculture only, and so far has no plans to include expat bloggers as they are 'not a voice'. Fighting talk? - well YES!..

I guess the language like so full of self puffery it borders on delusion could not have been answered better by anyone I know than with your “Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that we're not out to get you.” Pity about the rider, “but we're not”'!

 

Gary 23/9,  6:57 pm

There is at least one other person reading all this who has been gaoled in the West for speaking his mind.

In my case, I've even been gaoled for singing my mind! And this, in the supposedly "free", allegedly "democratic" West.

And here we are, demanding our "rights" to be heard in a nation still coming to terms with the 19th century, never mind the 21st.

Anyway, in the spirit of contrariness and contradiction, I would like to remind ourselves of some Uncomfortable Truths:

1. We've organised a number of Blogfests in the past. All these events have been ostensibly open to all. However, I cannot recall even one Indonesian blogger (i.e., citizen) showing up. (I stand corrected should I be wrong about this; but as I am usually the only sober person in attendance, I feel my recollection is not mistaken.)

Why is this so?

2. The JakChat site suffers a similar problem. Despite all our efforts, we have not managed to attract and retain Indonesian male users. At best, they last two days and then we never see them again.

Why is this so?

Most of us here are Western liberals, adopting often combative debating styles. This freaks out most Asians, regardless of their Westernised veneers. We blow them away before they even realise what's going on. Just as, I imagine, Ong and Treespotter have been blown away by the way we have discussed this matter, irrespective of the merits of our arguments.

Perhaps Indonesians need space to develop into social critics without the intimidating presence of Westerners?

Just a thought ...

Some other thoughts:

I find some of the terminology being used highly problematic, in particular, the words "blogger" and "expat".

I feel the word blogger could much better be replaced with the term "alternative media"; which is to say, alternative news and opinion; non-mainstream media.

The word expat is a quaint hangover from colonial times; better replaced with "foreign resident".

Carl 24/9,  5:58 am

Jakartass,

That exchange about the upcoming bloggers’ convention, for native Indonesians only, is somewhat interesting (especially your comments, which I agree with). 
So why don't you organise a “Westerners Only Blogging Convention” and hold it out somewhere in Blok M or on Jalan Jaksa? Indonesians could come along as "observers."

 

Reveller 24/9,  10:27 am

Ong,

Thanks for the detailed breakdown of the budget. It's clear that the committee has put a lot of thought and work into the scope and planning of the event, and aim to host a real extravaganza.

Let me take up the points you make in your email.

I don't recall anyone asking me or Enda? for more details about the Pesta Blogger and its budgeting before they decided that it was a nefarious money grubbing scheme.

Please open a good dictionary and look up the words 'nefarious' and 'money-grubbing'. The expression used in my email was 'commercial enterprise'. Putting words into people's mouths and twisting what they say is one of the oldest tricks in the book, and not worthy of someone of your intelligence.

Just so you get the sums right:?We are asking Rp 50 million sponsorship from sponsors – Rp 30 mio in cash and Rp20 mio in goods (eg. Nokia handphones, Microsoft programs).

Nokia's agenda is nothing to do with blogging: it's all about selling cell phones. Let me quote from the Asia Blogging Network web site: "More sophisticated mobile terminals also make it easier to blog on cell phones". Do you know anybody who needs a cell phone for blogging? Do you know anybody who actually uses a cell phone for blogging? This illustrates how tied in the people at ABN are to their sponsoring overlords.

With two sponsors on board we have Rp60 mio cash. If we get two more we will have Rp120 million cash, but we don't so we are looking for two more sponsors. Realistically, at most we will get one more sponsor because of the time frame. So our existing operating budget is Rp60 mio. If we get lucky another sponsor will push our operating budget to Rp90 mio.)

All the goods will be used for prizes for participants. (We are targeting telecoms operators who have HSDPA modems because it may be a good prize to give bloggers).

The cash raised will be used for rental of the event site, AV equipment, backdrop, lunch and snacks for the 200 plus participants. We are estimating at least 220 plus invitees. We initially wanted to do it at XXI but it was too expensive (they were asking for about Rp400 per head!). So we are looking at Hard Rock because it can, upstairs and downstairs, accommodate 200 plus people, plus it also has a large projection screen where we can shoot some blogs. For it to work, however, we need to virtually close up the place and Hard Rock is asking a premium for this, so we are negotiating (so I don't think its fair for us to mention the exact figures but if you look at the budget assumptions below it is more or less that figure). We are also looking at Blitz as an alternative to drive the price down. If any of you can negotiate a better deal with a venue that meets these conditions please let us know.

In my opinion this razzmatazz is rather over the top, as the invitees are already blogging or are would-be bloggers. It looks to me like a case of preaching to the converted. Is the hire of so much expensive hi-tech paraphernalia really necessary?

We decided on charging Rp 200,000 entry fee for late comers because we do not want to overshoot our budget. At the same time we did not want to turn anyone away, so we thought it would be fair if they paid Rp 200,000 if they did not bother to sign up but would want to get in. It would cover costs.

In Jakarta that's a very wise precaution, as most people tend to make last-minute decisions. :-)

So our rough budgetary assumptions (and they are assumptions, allowing for some leeway) are:

Food and snacks for 220 participants @ 150,000/head  =Rp35 mio
Rental of place/AV equipment/backdrop =Rp 35 mio
Miscellaneous/incidentals =Rp10 mio

Is the figure of 220 participants an estimate, or have they all confirmed their attendance? In my fairly extensive experience you can expect quite a lot of 'no shows' from those who have signed up - especially if they haven't paid an entry fee and don't lose money by not going.

That would come up to Rp80 mio, Rp 20 mio more than our current funds. Hardly a profitable venture. so commercial motivation??Certainly not to make a quick buck. I or most members of the Steering Committee can make much better money elsewhere for the effort. ( and we also know that efforts like these are thankless, everyone wants the benefits, few are willing to work and many will criticize, no matter what decisions you take). As it is we are scrambling like mad for another sponsor. We are confident of covering costs but in the unlikely event that we make some money out of it, the funds will be used to organize next year's Pesta Blogger or donated to a charity, yet to be decided.

That's a clear and praiseworthy use of income!

Political interest? I can't even see the connection. No politician or political entities have been involved. The Menkominfo only knew about the event when we met him last week to ask him to support and possibly open the event (even then, you know how busy ministers get so we're not holding our breath although he was very supportive).?

If you take a breath and read my email more closely you'll see that I said "it angers me to see the hijack of blogging around the world by commercial and political interests". Nowhere do I state or imply that this is the case in Indonesia, nor do I suggest that this comment applies to the Pesta Blogger event. My focus is on business interests.

I also need also to point out that the bloggers we have approached to join the steering committee have all been very selfless and supportive. Many of them own businesses but they come in as bloggers. Only Maverick and bubu.com are listed as co-organizers because we also provide the manpower to organize the event. Budi Putra is in the Steering Committee as a blogger in his own right. He is using his blogs and the Asia Blogging network to help publicize the event among Indonesian bloggers. Asia Bogging Network is not a sponsor or organizer in Pesta Blogger. Neither is Virtual, a web design company owned by Nukman Luthfie who is also on the Steering Committee. Neither is Intermatrix, the company owned by another committee member Wimar Witoelar. They all simply pitched in when approached because they too thought it a good idea to hold a large bloggers gathering.

The issue comes down to the commercial agenda of Asia Blogging Network. May I refer you to these quotations from their web site?

"Our blog network was originally designed to organise them so they could have better bargain [sic] position."
"The launching of AsiaBlogging.com would mark a new era in Indonesian blogosphere: paid blogging era."
"... how to start blogging, how to manage the contents, and how blogging could make money"

My personal motivation? Because I can do something about the situation, start something that does not exist before. Indonesia has been good to me and my company and we are in a position to throw some manpower in to make things happen. In this case it is blogging. We, both myself and my staff, individually and as a corporation, are into blogging because we believe that it will eventually change the way businesses and organizations communicate. As a result we have been active in the Indonesian blogging community.

This is very laudable - but what connection does it have with the Pesta's target audience, individual bloggers who are not writing in or for an employing organisation?

I should also point out that the Pesta Blogger is a NOT FOR PROFIT event. We realized very early on that there are bound to be queries of where the funds would go, who gets what so we would be publishing all the accounts in the Pesta Blogger website after the event. You'd be most welcome to conduct a detailed scrutiny then.

That's the way to do it, and I applaud the transparency.

One thing still puzzles me about Asia Blogging Network. As it says on their web site, "AsiaBlogging.com is a blog network from Indonesian [sic] for Asia”. Given that they are focussed on Indonesian bloggers to the exclusion of other nationals, why is their blog written in English and not Bahasa Indonesia? And why is there no optional Bahasa Indonesia version?

One final piece of advice for the good people at Asia Blogging Network: if you write in English, for heaven's sake have the text proofread for mistakes. Pages riddled with basic errors do your reputation and your professional credibility no good at all.

 Treespotter 24/9,  1:55 pm

 

Gary,

i can answer (your questions as to why no Indonesians went to the last blogfest). But since this is already getting a little out of control, i'm taking it to the blog. You can blow all you like, that's just not my thing.

 

 

Indcoup 26/9,  9:32 am

 

Unspun is really starting to bore the shit out of me.

As for his blog$cam, it seems that quite a few Indonesian bloggers are now saying that they can't make it - what with the brilliant Malaysian scheduling it to take place when many Indonesians will still be out of Jakarta on their Eidul Fitri holidays... hahaha!!



Edited by KuKuKaChu (27 Sep 07 14:58)
Edit Reason: removing names to protect the not so innocent ;)
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#62297 - 27 Sep 07 13:19 Re: Blogfest 2007 -- chronology [Re: KuKuKaChu]
Patung Offline
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#62303 - 27 Sep 07 13:28 Re: Blogfest 2007 -- chronology [Re: Patung]
Dilli Offline
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Registered: 26 Feb 06
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Way to go Patung. I agree....
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