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#59347 - 21 Aug 07 12:04 'Taliban Lite'
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
Below are some excerpts from a Times.uk article about Malaysia's 50-year independence commemorations. Kelantan state, in the northern part of Malaysia, is one of the most backward parts of the country. It also happens to be the least tolerant of other ethnic groups and religions and not very fun. Malaysia has achieved 10 times more development than Indonesia in less time, but these Taliban-loving fools threaten to push it back into the dark ages.


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Islam’s war on sin in a nation torn between cultures

As it celebrates 50 years of independence on August 31, Malaysia is once again debating just how Islamic it should be.

Older Malays bemoan a younger generation that has become puritanical, self-righteously declining to attend social functions where alcohol is served. Headscarves, rare 20 years ago, are worn by almost all Malay women now, although often in combination with tight jeans.

As for Kelantan State Minister Hassan, a moderate who was once a lawyer, he is proud of his Islamic party’s achievements in Kota Bharu. He says that it has kept the rustic capital of Kelantan state upright and clean living. The biggest building in the city is a gigantic headquarters decorated with concrete Korans where the moral enforcement department is based. Its bearded officials spend much of their time prowling parks in Kota Bharu in search of amorous young sinners.

Mr Hassan is sensitive about the mocking nickname of “Taliban lite” sometimes leveled at his party from Kuala Lumpur, where bars do a roaring trade and the cinemas are full of dating couples. Yet he is sure that the moral example set in Kota Bharu will some day win over his lax compatriots to the south. “Malaysia is a Muslim state. We hope we can change the mindset of our people in Kuala Lumpur so they can live according to Islamic principles too,” he said. Not all parties agree.

Some fear that assertive Islam threatens to upset the delicate balance between the 60% Malay Muslim majority and the non-Muslim ethnic Chinese and Indian minorities, which have managed to coexist, sometimes uneasily, since the troubled birth of the country in 1957, at a time of civil war and ethnic tension.

Some non-Muslim Chinese and Indians feel increasingly treated like second-class citizens. They complain, usually privately, that Islamic religious schools are much better funded than theirs and that a system of affirmative action favors Malays when it comes to university places.

Minority religions are particularly worried about a series of apostasy rulings. Chinese or Indians who want to marry a Malay must convert to Islam.

In a notorious case this year a Malay woman called Lina Joy attempted to have Malaysia’s courts recognize her conversion to Christianity, but failed and was hounded and fled into hiding. Some hardliners have even called for the execution of apostates.
Every state has a religious department with Saudi-style moral enforcers and nowhere are they more active than in Kota Bharu, a city of mosques along a muddy river that bustles during the day but falls silent at nightfall.
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#59363 - 21 Aug 07 14:09 Re: 'Taliban Lite' [Re: riccardo]
Roy's Hair Offline
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Registered: 08 Nov 06
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Let's hope Indo doesn't reach this stage. It will surely break up if it does.
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#59366 - 21 Aug 07 14:16 Re: 'Taliban Lite' [Re: Roy's Hair]
riccardo Offline
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Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
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Quoting: article
Older Malays bemoan a younger generation that has become puritanical, self-righteously declining to attend social functions where alcohol is served. Headscarves, rare 20 years ago, are worn by almost all Malay women now, although often in combination with tight jeans.


How bizarre is this? In most societies, the older generations are bemoaning the fact that the young folk are too loose, too liberal and wear clothes that are too sexy. It's all back-asswards.
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Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

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#59387 - 21 Aug 07 16:41 Re: 'Taliban Lite' [Re: riccardo]
Capt. Mainwaring Offline
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Registered: 16 Aug 06
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I visited a very pleasant plaza yesterday - I had a chat with a "little" girl of about 17 who was making a fuss of the kids - she was surely a pretty thing and was Jilbabed up , but wearing Levi's and a T shirt that had some pretty lively text on it - I ask her if she understood what it meant, then gave her a "keras" but accurate translation which made her blush, she had no idea of the real meaning .
Anyway back to the plot- she saw the Jilbab as a fashion accessory, and only used it in certain circumstances -

As an aside, we moan about Indo and some of the things that happen, but I suspect the malays are rather less tractable.

I just hope that the majority still feel the same way, though it is worrying sometime the number of mothers who dress their kids up in silly looking lampshades as soon as they are big enough to walk.
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I also made a vegetarian version,with tempe and tofu chunks for myself and others.Get over it.
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#59392 - 21 Aug 07 16:56 Re: 'Taliban Lite' [Re: Capt. Mainwaring]
Dilli Offline
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Registered: 26 Feb 06
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I've noticed that a lot, Jakarta is a very T Shirt orientated city and many of the slogans would not be allowed on the streets of the so called "civilised world" but, they cause no issue here as very few understand them!


Attachments
T Shirt Kemang Festival.jpg




Edited by Dilli (21 Aug 07 16:58)
Edit Reason: Resized
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#59393 - 21 Aug 07 16:56 Re: 'Taliban Lite' [Re: Capt. Mainwaring]
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
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Registered: 09 Oct 05
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Quoting: Capt. Mainwaring
though it is worrying sometime the number of mothers who dress their kids up in silly looking lampshades as soon as they are big enough to walk.

or even *before* they can walk! this photo taken at last weeks independence day festivities:


Attachments
101_1333.JPG


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#59403 - 21 Aug 07 17:20 Re: 'Taliban Lite' [Re: KuKuKaChu]
Capt. Mainwaring Offline
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Registered: 16 Aug 06
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Poor little buggers .

As for the T shirt thing, for the mostpart the silly sods don't understand - those that half understand are part of the "hello Misterrrrrrrr" crew.

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I also made a vegetarian version,with tempe and tofu chunks for myself and others.Get over it.
Kosong.Wolo.Setunggal.Setunggal.Setunggal.Kosong.Pitu.Setunggal.Kosong.Wolo=Tempik

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#59426 - 21 Aug 07 20:08 Re: 'Taliban Lite' [Re: Capt. Mainwaring]
Roy's Hair Offline
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Registered: 08 Nov 06
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putting a Jilbab on a two year old - what does that say then? That two year olds are sexually desirable? Always thought that was weird, although I believe a certain prophet was into itty bitty titty.
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#59430 - 21 Aug 07 21:47 Re: 'Taliban Lite' [Re: Roy's Hair]
Dilli Offline
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Registered: 26 Feb 06
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With a yellow polka dot bikini - oops wrong song!
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#59436 - 22 Aug 07 07:53 Re: 'Taliban Lite' [Re: Roy's Hair]
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
Pooh Bah

Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
Loc: Centre of the Universe
Quoting: Roy's hair
putting a Jilbab on a two year old - what does that say then? That two year olds are sexually desirable? Always thought that was weird, although I believe a certain prophet was into itty bitty titty.

strictly by the book, woman must start covering their aurat (naughty bits; for women, everything except for the face and hands) starting at the time of their first menstruation.

so, clearly, the little bub pictured above is wearing a "jilbab gaul" ("social" jilbab).
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#59444 - 22 Aug 07 09:18 Re: 'Taliban Lite' [Re: KuKuKaChu]
Roy's Hair Offline
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Ah. The social Bab. Let's have a 'bab party tonight!! We can all wear sexy peep hole 'babs.

Seriously though , by the book, there is NOTHING which says women should be all 'babbed up.
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Chinese like more traditional patterns on their ring.

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#59445 - 22 Aug 07 09:23 Re: 'Taliban Lite' [Re: Roy's Hair]
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
Pooh Bah

Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
Loc: Centre of the Universe
Quoting: Roy's hair
Seriously though , by the book, there is NOTHING which says women should be all 'babbed up.

well, there is, in fact. both the Koran and hadith are surprisingly consistent about the matter of men and woman's aurat.
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#59447 - 22 Aug 07 09:29 Re: 'Taliban Lite' [Re: KuKuKaChu]
Roy's Hair Offline
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Registered: 08 Nov 06
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the modern use of the veil is derived from a misreading of a verse of the Koran. The word used in that verse is 'hijeb,' which actually refers to a curtain that separates not man from woman but a man's public life from his private life


Edited by Roy's hair (22 Aug 07 09:30)
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#59450 - 22 Aug 07 09:51 Re: 'Taliban Lite' [Re: Roy's Hair]
Roy's Hair Offline
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Registered: 08 Nov 06
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interesting issue, I found this :

"And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments.... "
The Book of Light 24:31
A. Yusufali


Ultimately though I don't give a flying toss what these primitives thought 1600 years ago.

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Chinese like more traditional patterns on their ring.

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#59451 - 22 Aug 07 09:54 Re: 'Taliban Lite' [Re: Roy's Hair]
Roy's Hair Offline
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Registered: 08 Nov 06
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There's also this:

"You can never be equitable in dealing with more than one wife, no matter how hard you try. Therefore, do not be so biased as to leave one of them hanging (neither enjoying marriage, nor left to marry someone else).... "
The Book of Women 4:129
Translated by Rashad Khalifa

He he. Don't let 'em hang Ku. I'm sure your missuses enjoy themselves though so that's ok.
_________________________
Chinese like more traditional patterns on their ring.

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#59452 - 22 Aug 07 10:15 Re: 'Taliban Lite' [Re: Roy's Hair]
Dilli Offline
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Registered: 26 Feb 06
Posts: 8044
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Chat up line for those of the faith...

Nice Ankle!
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#59453 - 22 Aug 07 10:17 Re: 'Taliban Lite' [Re: Dilli]
Dilli Offline
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Registered: 26 Feb 06
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Whats beneath the veil,

I think I can now supply the answer!


Attachments
beneaththeveil.jpg


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#59461 - 22 Aug 07 12:02 Re: 'Taliban Lite' [Re: Dilli]
Roy's Hair Offline
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Registered: 08 Nov 06
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Ha ha. Muslims need four wives because they can only see a quarter of each one I reckon.
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Chinese like more traditional patterns on their ring.

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#59488 - 22 Aug 07 22:26 Re: 'Taliban Lite' [Re: Roy's Hair]
Piss Salon Offline
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Registered: 27 Jun 06
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What is worse, the picture above or the picture below of an American 6-year old.



Attachments
PG-Jonbenet-Ramsey(1).jpg


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#59489 - 22 Aug 07 22:44 Re: 'Taliban Lite' [Re: Piss Salon]
Piss Salon Offline
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I am talking about child beauty pageants.

"Children's beauty pageants are judged by the following: modeling sportswear and evening wear, how well they dance, and how much talent they have. The children themselves are judged by their looks, how well they perform, and how confident they appear. Approximately 250, 000 children participate in pageants each year."
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place within us love that truly gives, tenderness that truly unites, self-offering that tells the truth and does not deceive, forgiveness that truly receives, loving physical union that welcomes

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#59527 - 23 Aug 07 10:51 Re: 'Taliban Lite' [Re: Piss Salon]
Roy's Hair Offline
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Registered: 08 Nov 06
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that's just as sick I guess - the Little Miss Sunshine 9 year old ho contests are so weird
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Chinese like more traditional patterns on their ring.

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#59537 - 23 Aug 07 12:29 Re: 'Taliban Lite' [Re: Roy's Hair]
Patung Offline
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Registered: 11 Mar 06
Posts: 234
Loc: Indonesia
If they're babbing up the little un's to cover their aurat it's plainly ludicrous but there might be other reasons and now having a daughter I think i can semi-understand them. Love might have something to do with it, or wanting to make it clear from the start that the kid belongs to a certain tradition, wanting to pretty them up, etc, etc.
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#59546 - 23 Aug 07 14:22 Re: 'Taliban Lite' [Re: Patung]
riccardo Offline
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Registered: 12 Oct 05
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I can see that side of it too, Patung, but surely this jilbab/hijab/niqab thing has gone too far.

It's absurd. Why should a society in SE Asia regress 3,000 years to pre-islamic Arabian Bedouin traditions? The whole jilbab thing came about among those Bedouins, who required that their sex slaves wear them.
_________________________
Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

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#59548 - 23 Aug 07 14:40 Re: 'Taliban Lite' [Re: riccardo]
I die enjoy Offline
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Registered: 21 Aug 07
Posts: 34
Loc: Bandung
Quoting: riccardo
Kelantan state, in the northern part of Malaysia, is one of the most backward parts of the country. It also happens to be the least tolerant of other ethnic groups and religions and not very fun.


Just a small correction here from my own travel experiences and for those who are willing to pay the million fiscal for a short but great trip northwards. Pulau Perhentian (besar and kecil) which are both in Kelantan state (taxi from kota Baru to kuala besut amd then boat) are most certainly VERY FUN. Pristine islands, great beaches, diving, snorkelling and a good if not over-the-top nightlife. And quite tolerant of all manner of weird western behaviour. Plus Beer and the Green Mamba available for those of that persuasion.
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#59559 - 23 Aug 07 17:50 Re: 'Taliban Lite' [Re: riccardo]
Capt. Mainwaring Offline
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Registered: 16 Aug 06
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Quoting: riccardo
I can see that side of it too, Patung, but surely this jilbab/hijab/niqab thing has gone too far.

It's absurd. Why should a society in SE Asia regress 3,000 years to pre-islamic Arabian Bedouin traditions? The whole jilbab thing came about among those Bedouins, who required that their sex slaves wear them.


It bothers me in the UK, but not here -

I'm pretty sure that dressing kids up like tarts is rather less savoury than Jilbabifying them.
_________________________
I also made a vegetarian version,with tempe and tofu chunks for myself and others.Get over it.
Kosong.Wolo.Setunggal.Setunggal.Setunggal.Kosong.Pitu.Setunggal.Kosong.Wolo=Tempik

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