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#59002 - 17 Aug 07 11:08 Grameen Bank in Indonesia?
Your Shrink Offline
Member

Registered: 08 Aug 07
Posts: 16
Loc: Lunatic Asylum
In the shout box a few days a go I was discussing Grameen Bank with Riccardo and later I found out Riccardo still misunderstood my point by saying that I was new and optimistic to Grameen, that he took my suggestion on learning about the SARA in Indonesia as a joke.

I know little about Grameen Bank so Ric is correct. It is true that I am new to the Grameen concept and I don't have any intention to talk about implementation of Grameen Bank systems in Indonesia, it's really out of my field of expertise. That means I am not either optimistic or pessimitic about it.

Things make me uneasy is Ric's statement that Grameen cannot be implemented in Indonesia. His reason based on the case in Ambon, when Maranatha (supported by an Australian NGO) implemented Grameen banking systems there. It was working but Laskar Jihad or whatever the name of the organisation, burned the office's and this deemed the experiment a failure.

I am sorry to say, that this is a reckless conclusion.

What I really disagree about is that Indonesia is a very diverse nation with diverse cultures as well. Ambon, Sumatera, Java, Papua, Bali etc etc, all are very very different. If you cannot implement something in Java this doesn't mean that you can't implement it in other places in Indonesia. To state that a system cannot be implemented at all would only be true if
you have proven experiences of failure in other places which would represent Indonesia as a whole archipelago.

Beside the cultural differences, it is also who is the change agent. Mohammad Yunus, a native Moslem Bangladeshi living amongst and being part of the poor, and Maranatha, an NGO supported by Australian organization, are very different characters of change agents perceived by the society. The resistence of Laskar Jihad or whatever is the name, reflecting the character of most Moslems to non-muslim interventions. You may say its pathetic, but it's not your opinion that matter. It's the character you can't deny. Its the cultural differences you have to consider before you make the decision. Think big means get rid off the obstacles by understand them and make the most benefit of them by building scenarios mostly fit to the society.

Riccardo's decision seems doesn't consider the culture and change agents differences. That would bring me to the conclusion that it was a reckless decision. And when he said that he wrote an official reports on it, forgive me to say, you provide a misleading information with probable huge effects may follow to this country.
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#59040 - 17 Aug 07 14:42 Re: Grameen Bank in Indonesia? [Re: Your Shrink]
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
First off, let's be clear on one important thing. You and I completely agree that Grameen-style micro-credit schemes for the poor are a very good and useful thing.

We have a difference of opinion about the feasibility of its implementation in Indonesia after numerous failures by many, many groups and organizations. The Maranatha (since become Opportunity Int'l) example was actually an example of one that was indeed working fairly well, by all accounts, but the 1999-2001 Muslim-Christian wars in both the Moluccas and central Celebes put a halt to all that -- and they've since focused most of their projects on Africa with varying degrees of success.

Finally, please see this as encouragement. If you think it can work somewhere in this archipelago, by all means go for it, don't let me or anyone else stop you.
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#59071 - 17 Aug 07 19:32 Re: Grameen Bank in Indonesia? [Re: riccardo]
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Registered: 08 Aug 07
Posts: 16
Loc: Lunatic Asylum
Gosh.... doh

My post:
It is true that I am new to the Grameen concept and I don't have any intention to talk about implementation of Grameen Bank systems in Indonesia, it's really out of my field of expertise.

Riccardo's reply:
Finally, please see this as encouragement. If you think it can work somewhere in this archipelago, by all means go for it, don't let me or anyone else stop you.

Reading your last comment, it seems that you still don't get the point Ric?

Read it again ok.... tired
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