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#58766 - 14 Aug 07 17:35 The Top 20 Reasons Not to Move to Dubai (in no particular order!)
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
Pooh Bah

Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
Loc: Centre of the Universe
Interesting article from escapeartist.com; i wonder what a top 20 for indonesia would look like??


From http://www.escapeartist.com:80/efam/94/art_20_Reasons_Not_Move_to_Dubai.html

The Top 20 Reasons Not to Move to Dubai (in no particular order!)
By Tia OíNeill


August 2007
Living in Dubai is not wonderful and glamorous, as many would have you believe. Forget about what youíve read, seen, and heard; those shiny buildings and manmade islands are all just smoke and mirrors. There are so many things wrong with this place that I have decided to compile a list, a must read if you are considering a potential move to Dubai.

1. There is no standard address system making mail-to-the door delivery impossible. In fact, it makes anything nearly impossible. The taxi driver, here for only two days, and having learned English from old Beatles albums has no clue where your house is. He wonít tell you that of course, heíll just keep calling and saying, ďOkay, okay. Yeah, yeah.Ē When you purchase something that requires delivery they do not have an address line, but a box where you are expected to draw a map. Not able to draw a map? Explain like this: I live on the street after the airport road, but before the roundabout. Go past the mosque and make a U-turn.

2. The government blocks all web sites that it deems ďoffensiveĒ to the ďreligious, moral, and cultural valuesĒ of the UAE. Thatís hard to swallow for a freedom loving American, but I get it. I do not understand, however, why all VOIP access and related web sites are blocked. I guess the government also takes offense to people inexpensively contacting their families back home. Youíre welcome to call using the analog service provided by the government-owned telephone monopoly, but it will cost you a whole lot more. So much so, in fact, your frequency of calls will be greatly diminished if you can afford them at all. The government says VOIP is blocked for security reasons, yet even the residents of communist China and North Korea have access to these inexpensive calls.



3. It is really hot outside. Not Florida in July hot; Hot as if you were locked in a car in Florida in July with sufficient humidity to make it feel as though you are drowning. Hot as in 120 degrees with nearly 100% humidity. Do not look to the wind for relief. This is the equivalent of pointing a hairdryer on full blast directly at your face. Pour fine moon dust-like sand over your head as you do this and you get the picture.

4. There are too few trees, plants, and grass Ė or living things aside from us crazy humans, for that matter. Ever see a bird pant? I have. In my opinion, human beings were not meant to live in such a place. If we were, there would be sufficient water and shade. The only greenery around are the roadside gardens planted by the government, who waters the hell out of them in the middle of the day. Thanks a lot! Didnít you say we should cut down on our water consumption because you are unable to keep up with the demand? I have an idea: letís all move someplace where itís not 120 degrees outside.

5. This country prides itself so much on its glitz and glamour that it put a picture of its 7-star hotel on the license plate. Yet, the public toilets in the king-of-bling Gold Souk district are holes in the ground with no toilet paper or soap. Hoses to rinse your nether regions, however, are provided. This results in a mass of water on the floor that you must stand in to pee. Try squatting without touching anything and keeping your pants from touching anything either. Oh yeah. Itís 120 degrees in there too.

6. This country encourages businesses to hire people from other poor countries to come here and work. They have them sign contracts that are a decade long and then take their passports. Even though taking passports is supposedly illegal, the government knows it happens and does nothing to enforce the law. These poor people are promised a certain pay, but the companies neglect to tell them they will be deducting their cost of living from their paychecks, leaving them virtually penniless Ė that is, if they choose to pay them. Companies hold back paychecks for months at a time. When the workers strike as a result, they are jailed. Protesting is illegal, you see (apparently this law IS enforced).

These people will never make enough to buy a ticket home and even if they do, they do not have their passports. They live crammed in portables with tons of others, in highly unsanitary conditions. The kicker: they are building hotels that cost more to stay in for one night than they will make in an entire year. Things are so bad that a number of laborers are willing to throw themselves in front of cars because their death would bring their family affluence in the form of diya, blood money paid to the victimís family as mandated by the government.

7. Things are not cheaper here. Iím sick of people saying that. I read the letters to the editor page of the paper and people say to those who complain about the cost of living rising here, ďWell, itís cheaper than your home country or you wouldnít be here.Ē The only thing cheaper here is labor. Yes, you can have a maid Ė but a bag of washed lettuce will cost you almost $10.

8. There are traffic cameras everywhere. I consider this cheating. Where are the damn cops? I drove around this city for weeks before I ever even saw a cop. Trust me, they need traffic cops here. People drive like idiots. Itís perfectly okay to turn left from the far right lane, but speeding even just a couple of kilometers over will get you fined. These cameras are placed strategically as you come down hills, or just as the speed limit changes. Before you know itÖBAM! Fined. Forget to pay the bill and your car will be impounded..

9. The clothing some of these women wear makes no sense to me. I understand that as part of your religion you are required to dress in a particular way, but a black robe over your jeans and turtleneck and cover your head when it is 120 degrees outside? In the gym some women wear five layers of clothingÖsweatpants and t-shits over sweaters with headscarves. Yet the menís clothing makes absolute sense: white, airy, and nothing underneath but their skivvies.

10. People stare at you. I am sick of being stared at. Iím stared at by men who have never seen a fair-skinned blue-eyed woman before, or who have and think we are all prostitutes so itís okay to stare. They stare at me when I am fully covered or with my husband, and even follow me around. Itís beyond creepy and has brought me to tears on more than one occasion. The staring is not limited to men, either. Iím stared at angrily by female prostitutes who think I am running in on their territory by having a few drinks with my husband at the bar.

11. Prostitutes? Oh hell yes, there are prostitutes. Tons of them. So, let me get this straight, I canít look at a naked picture of a person on the Internet in the privacy of my home, but it is okay to go out in public and buy a few for the night?

12. Alcohol can only be sold in hotels and a handful of private clubs. A person must own a liquor license to consume in the privacy of their own home. To obtain a liquor license you must get signed approval from your boss, prove a certain level of salary that determines how much you are allowed to buy, and then submit several mug shots (aka passport photos) for approval. Pay the fee and the additional 30% tax on every purchase and you may drink at home. Then again, you can just pick up a few bottles in the airport duty free on your way in to the country, but two is the max. Why not just drive out to Ajman where itís a free-for-all and load up the SUV? Itís easy enough, but crossing the Emirates with alcohol is illegal Ė particularly in the dry emirate of Sharjah, which just happens to lie between Dubai and Ajman. Go figure.

13. Not only do you have to get your bossís approval to obtain a liquor license, but you must also get the companyís approval to rent property, have a telephone, or get satellite TV.

14. Back to the craziness on the roads: If I see one more kid standing up and waving to me out the back window while flying down the road at 160 kphÖwhatever happened to seatbelts?

15. When is the weekend again? Let me get this straight: the weekend used to be Thursday and Friday, but no one took off all of Thursday, just a half day really. Now the government says Friday and Saturday are the weekend, but some people only take off Friday, others still take a half day on Thursday, but some might just take a half day on Saturday instead. Anyway you slice it, Sundays are workdays and little business can be accomplished Thursday through Saturday.

16. There are few satellite television operators:. The movie channels play movies that are old and outdated. Many of them went straight to video back in the States. Every sitcom that failed in the US has been purchased and is played here. Old episodes of Knight Rider are advertised like it is the coolest thing since sliced bread. The TV commercials are repeated so often that I am determined NOT to buy anything I see advertised on television here just for thee principle of it. When I say repeated often, I mean every commercial break - sometimes more than once.

17. The roads are horribly designed. Driving ten minutes out of the way to make a U-turn is not uncommon. People are not able to give directions most of the time (remember reason #1), and the maps are little help because most have few road names on them, if any. Where is interchange four? You just have to hope you got on the freeway in the right place and start counting because they are not numbered. Miss it and youíll likely end up on the other side of town before you are able to turn around and go back.

18. Taxi drivers are dangerous and smell. Taxi drivers work very hard here to earn a living because travel by taxi is still relatively inexpensive, even though the cost of living is not (see reason #7). Because of this you may have a driver who has had little sleep or the opportunity to shower for several days. Many of these drivers have just as much difficulty finding their way around as you do, but add to this a third-world country driving style and extreme exhaustion and, well, remember to buckle up for safety.

19. Speeding is an Emirati sport and Emirates Road is just an extension of the Dubai Autodrome. I know I keep mentioning the roads, but really, much of this cityís issues are encompassed by the erratic and irrational behavior displayed on its streets. Visions of flashing lights on even flashier, limo-tinted SUVs haunt me as I merge on to the highway. Local nationals are somehow able to get the sun-protecting dark window tint denied to us lowly expats and use it to hide their faces as they tailgate you incessantly at unbelievably high speeds, their lights flickering on and off and horn blaring repeatedly. It doesnít matter that you canít get over, or if doing so would be particularly dangerous, they will run you off the road to get in front of you. Donít even think about giving someone the finger; the offense could land you in jail. Tailgating is, unbelievably, legal.

20. Dubai is far from environmentally friendly. Ever wonder how much damage those manmade islands are doing to the delicate ocean ecosystem? Coral reefs, sea grasses, and oyster beds that were once part of protected marine lands lie choked under a barrage of dredged up sea sand. Consider the waste that occurs from erecting buildings on top of these sand monsters and from the people that occupy them coupled with the lack of an effective recycling program and you have an environmental disaster on your hands. Add to this more gas guzzling SUVs than fuel-efficient cars on the road and the need for 24-hour powerful air-conditioning and its evident that the environment is not high on the priority list of the UAE.

So while Iím sure there are benefits to living in Dubai, tax breaks, multi-cultural environments, and beautiful buildings aside, reconsider your plans to move here if any of the above mentioned reasons strikes a chord within you. Dubai is a city caught in an identity crisis. Struggling somewhere between its desire to be a playground for the rich and its adherence to traditional Islamic roots, rests a city that lacks sufficient infrastructure to support its delusions of grandeur. Visit if you must, but leave quickly before you are sucked into its calamitous void.



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KuKuKaChu: dangerously too sophisticated

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#58781 - 14 Aug 07 22:19 Re: The Top 20 Reasons Not to Move to Dubai (in no particular order!) [Re: KuKuKaChu]
Dilli Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 26 Feb 06
Posts: 8044
Loc: Nearest Bar
I lived in Dubai for almost 20 years! Let me think about this one!
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#58782 - 14 Aug 07 23:31 Re: The Top 20 Reasons Not to Move to Dubai (in no particular order!) [Re: KuKuKaChu]
kenyeung Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 16 Apr 07
Posts: 2374
Loc: Indonesia
I'm sure other people can come up with other reasons.

The Top 5 Reasons Not to Move to Jakarta (in no particular order!)
1. Dilli
2. Riccardo
3. Piss Salon
4. KuKuKaChu
5. ChewwyUK

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#58785 - 15 Aug 07 06:50 Re: The Top 20 Reasons Not to Move to Dubai (in no particular order!) [Re: kenyeung]
Dilli Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 26 Feb 06
Posts: 8044
Loc: Nearest Bar
Finally I am top of the list for something!
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Menace to Sobriety


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#58786 - 15 Aug 07 07:10 Re: The Top 20 Reasons Not to Move to Dubai (in no particular order!) [Re: Dilli]
kenyeung Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 16 Apr 07
Posts: 2374
Loc: Indonesia
The following was posted on:

http://lifeincontrast.com/2007/03/30/sea...e-to-indonesia/

Quote:
Top Ten Reasons NOT to move to Indonesia
March 30th, 2007

10. Itís not the heat, itís the humidity. Or maybe itís both, I donít know. Regardless, itís going to be HOT.

9. Eight-legged friends. Big hairy spiders, anyone?

8. Slow or non-existent Internet access. Apparently it can be hard to even get dialup at all in some places. Broadband exists, but itís rare and still considerably slower than US broadband.

7. No hot showers. Oh well, maybe I wonít mind (see #10).

6. Squat toilets with no toilet paper in some places. Guess I wonít be doing anything with my left hand on some days.

5. Traffic and pollution. Smoky chaos in some cities.

4. Standing out like a sore thumb. As a white person, Iíll instantly draw attention and shouts almost everywhere I go. And the usual perceptions of Westerners will apply, including that Iím made of money.

3. Malaria. Man, I really hope I donít get this.

2. Natural and man-made disasters. Check out this list of recent disasters.

And last but not leastÖ the number one reason NOT to move to Indonesia isÖ

1. 4 AM wakeup calls from a loudspeaker every morning (Muslim call-to-prayer). Ouch. Not looking forward to that.

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#58787 - 15 Aug 07 07:18 Re: The Top 20 Reasons Not to Move to Dubai (in no particular order!) [Re: kenyeung]
kenyeung Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 16 Apr 07
Posts: 2374
Loc: Indonesia
Not too sure how many years ago Dave Cook wrote this, which is posted on Living In Indonesia (Expat Forum site) http://www.exxpat.or.id/info/goodbad.html

Quote:
Some reasons why you might not like living in Indonesia...
1. If you're loud and aggressive, you'll suddenly find you're invisible (which is fine by me).
2. Jakartans in particular don't seem to notice rubbish in the streets, and there's lots of it.
3. If you're western, everyone assumes you're very rich, and tries to charge you accordingly. Always go shopping with an Indonesian friend to get the "right" prices!
4. The police may try to find any excuse to get you to give them money.
5. The traffic in Jakarta is terrible and the air is very polluted in the dry season.

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#58788 - 15 Aug 07 07:47 Re: The Top 20 Reasons Not to Move to Dubai (in no particular order!) [Re: kenyeung]
emmajkt Offline
Member*

Registered: 02 Mar 07
Posts: 698
Loc: here, there and everywhere
hey kenny, i always thought your name is sort indonesian transalation to 'Full' after eat or 'stuff' mean 'Kenyang'... I dunno if that is your real name. Ken yeung. Peace hehehe lol
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bla bla bla






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#58789 - 15 Aug 07 07:50 Re: The Top 20 Reasons Not to Move to Dubai (in no particular order!) [Re: kenyeung]
Capt. Mainwaring Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 16 Aug 06
Posts: 3225
Loc: here
Quoting: kenyeung
The following was posted on:

http://lifeincontrast.com/2007/03/30/sea...e-to-indonesia/

Quote:
Top Ten Reasons NOT to move to Indonesia
March 30th, 2007

10. Itís not the heat, itís the humidity. Or maybe itís both, I donít know. Regardless, itís going to be HOT.

9. Eight-legged friends. Big hairy spiders, anyone?

8. Slow or non-existent Internet access. Apparently it can be hard to even get dialup at all in some places. Broadband exists, but itís rare and still considerably slower than US broadband.

7. No hot showers. Oh well, maybe I wonít mind (see #10).

6. Squat toilets with no toilet paper in some places. Guess I wonít be doing anything with my left hand on some days.

5. Traffic and pollution. Smoky chaos in some cities.

4. Standing out like a sore thumb. As a white person, Iíll instantly draw attention and shouts almost everywhere I go. And the usual perceptions of Westerners will apply, including that Iím made of money.

3. Malaria. Man, I really hope I donít get this.

2. Natural and man-made disasters. Check out this list of recent disasters.

And last but not leastÖ the number one reason NOT to move to Indonesia isÖ

1. 4 AM wakeup calls from a loudspeaker every morning (Muslim call-to-prayer). Ouch. Not looking forward to that.


Well I suppose that at some point someone got paid for the bandwidth - apart from that ....



_________________________
I also made a vegetarian version,with tempe and tofu chunks for myself and others.Get over it.
Kosong.Wolo.Setunggal.Setunggal.Setunggal.Kosong.Pitu.Setunggal.Kosong.Wolo=Tempik

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#58790 - 15 Aug 07 07:52 Re: The Top 20 Reasons Not to Move to Dubai (in no particular order!) [Re: emmajkt]
kenyeung Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 16 Apr 07
Posts: 2374
Loc: Indonesia
And here's a lovely old anti-Jakarta tirade by some bule
http://members.tripod.com/evan_ferguson/expatjakarta.htm

He says "Jakarta is truly a hellhole and I can't imagine a more frustrating place to live". I've carelessly redacted his rant into a list of:

Quote:
20 Reasons Not to Live in Jakarta

1. Jakarta simply has to be the most filthy, dirty unhygienic city in the world. People simply drop trash all over the place leaving food to rot, paper to disintegrate and plastic to stay forever. The only form of trash organization is paying someone to collect it and throw it onto a smoldering fire/trash pit.... Cars and buses spew out constant plumes of oily, black smoke and there is no such thing as lead free petrol locally (Although the state oil company, Pertamina, does export it!)

2. Tap water is unfit for human consumption and can't even be used for teeth brushing or washing vegetables without enormous infection risks. All water has to be bought from a distilling company. You have to be very careful when you eat out as only certain restaurants prepare their food hygienically. The local vegetables have such a high lead content that the government recently issued a statement advising people to limit their vegetable consumption to try and limit lead poisoning.

3. Many people disobey the law. Indonesians outside Jakarta are extremely polite and respectful, but in the city there are many surly, arrogant, corrupt and compulsive liars and thieves.

4. The nation is predominantly Moslem, about 95%, and I have asked some local friends of mine how they can condone "sinning", given that Islam is such a strict religion with regards the law. My friend told me that "sinning" is strictly forbidden but the "sinners" believe as long as they pray and "confess" at least four times a day, Allah will automatically forgive them for everything! Can you imagine what it would be like in the States, you steal or lie about something constantly, go to church, do a token prayer and you are automatically a good person again - not quite like the occasional minor indiscretion seriously spoken to a priest in a confession!

5. In Indonesia it is a loss of face to admit if you don't know or haven't done something, so people will tell you they do know whatever it is you want to know, when actually they have no idea. To give you an example, you can ask your driver to take you to a meeting and if he knows where it is. He will invariably nod and say, "yes, mister" and then proceed to drive all over the place until it is apparent he is totally lost. If you have an appointment it really messes you up. Similarly, in the office, they will tell you they ordered new stationery etc., even when they haven't. In both cases when you confront them they are not even embarrassed and simply smile. Aaaaaaaaaaarrrghhhhh!!!

6. No-one can take responsibility for their individual actions, and self thought/self starters are almost non existent - those that do tend to be highly successful because of this fact. Of these types, a very high majority are ethnic Chinese Indonesians which leads to a lot of racial jealousy. The Chinese have a strong financially orientated work ethic that serves them well in Indonesia. They have a community within a community and they watch out for one anotherís best interests.

7. Corruption is rife and I am so used to bribing police now that I might land in almighty trouble if I am ever stopped by a policeman the next time I am in Europe or the States! Generally, they pull you over for no reason at all, simply to try and elicit a bribe. If you don't pay, they will either take your ID card or even in some cases, beat you up. The first time I actually naively asked the policeman to write me a ticket as I did not know what I had done. He refused and kept asking for money until I gave him some. You really have no option. When they see you are white, they can't believe their luck as they charge you a "bule-price". "Bule" is literally the local translation for a "white honky".

8. Because we almost always have more money than most locals, any price gets inflated, whether it be paying a bribe, buying a piece of furniture, or even getting a tooth extracted! It's always bule-price).

9. Nobody believes in queuing and you can be standing waiting to pay for something in a shop or at the bank when after a long time someone else walks in and either ambles to the front of the queue or even barges their way in. If you say something to the tune of that's rude, to bring it to their attention, they look at you as if you are crazy. They can't understand the problem.

10. It is the same at traffic lights. Generally traffic in Jakarta varies between hellish and downright unbearable. Everyone ignores the red and green and tries to force their way across a junction. A bus can sometimes see that there is no place for him to go once he crosses the junction because the traffic is backed up on the other side, yet he will drive onto the junction, get stuck in the middle and block off the traffic coming across from his left and right sides. Eventually everybody else pushes and squeezes forward from every direction until there is total gridlock. At this point a bunch of young guys with whistles will magically appear and start to order drivers around to try and clear up the mess. Unfortunately since each whistler tends to have his own agenda, matters simply become even more screwed up. Alternatively, if you try and change lanes, cars will invariably speed up to effectively prevent you changing. It is almost as though it's a "macho" thing and it will be a loss of face to them if they let you in. Bus drivers, in stationary traffic, will also jump out and put a brick under the wheel to stop the bus rolling away as generally the brakes might not work too well!

11. Taxi drivers, with the exception of Silver Bird, are always smelly, dirty and rude. If you get in a traffic jam they turn around and start screaming at you as if it were your fault! Their logic is that if you hadn't asked them to drive you, they wouldn't have been where the jam occurs.

12. If you are unlucky enough to be in serious accident you are in trouble. I have heard of (local) people bumping into a pedestrian, being pulled out of their car by a ranting and raving mob and being beaten to death. We are under office instructions to drive away from the scene if we have a bad accident. If you injure someone, irregardless of whether it is your fault, you have to pay "blood money" compensation to the victim's family to "pacify" them.

13. Driving on the roads is also very dangerous. Although most people drive on the correct side of the road, it is not unusual to suddenly face a car, truck or bus bearing down on you on your side. In the countryside it's worse. At the weekends when everyone is streaming either out or into the city, traffic frequently backs up to a crawl with 10 mile tailbacks. As everyone tends to be heading in the same direction, this means that the other side of the road can often be fairly empty. Many drivers who are too impatient to wait simply take off on the wrong side and continue overtaking 20,30 or more cars at a time. Suddenly, another vehicle may begin to come round a corner and approach the overtaking vehicle. The overtaking vehicle, without looking, simply swings back onto it's own side of the road, frequently forcing one or two cars it has just overtaken off the road. Buses are the worst. Although the speed limit is 90kph, they will do 120+ coming at you on the wrong side of the road as per above.

14. Going back to cleanliness, Jakarta is also located at sea level, on the coast. In the old days at particularly high tides, any rivers flowing out to sea would back up and could flood the old downtown region. Nowadays, these rivers are no more than effluent streams, full of chemicals, dead animals, human waste, trash etc. This was beginning to cause an understandable problem when it would back up! Therefore they built dams with pumps at the river mouth to ensure the rivers kept flowing out to sea at high tide. However, all the trash started to block the pumps. Therefore a new career was born. Three guys, wearing no more than underwear, take a deep breath, jump into the waste and clear the pumps by hand! All done for the minimum wage of about $1-50 per day! These guys are aged about 30 but look twice their age and frequently die of disease or infection. Recently, a government official visited them to bestow the luxury of an entitlement to a government pension upon retiral. These guys were so proud, the tears were streaming down their faces - they had become successful and could now support their families, IF they got to retirement age.

15. Going to the bathroom is an adventure in itself. Most Indonesians prefer to use the "traditional" bathrooms over Western ones. Traditional means basically a hole in the ground, over which they squat, without any toilet paper. Indonesians like to "splash" themselves between the legs after they have finished with cups of water to "cleanse" themselves. Consequently, Indonesian bathrooms are swimming in "used" water along with other "bits and pieces" and stink to high heaven - particularly outdoor ones in the heat of summer!

16. There is no social welfare system. If you retire or lose your job there are no pensions or benefits worthwhile mentioning, bar government employees. You simply have to get by. Consequently, families are very big as you have to support your elders. However, because of the poor living conditions and malnourishment people die all the time. I work in an office of 14 and in the short time we have been here almost everyone has had a mother, father-in-law, sister etc, die.

17. The mail service is also corrupt and one Christmas, many packages we sent out or were received by ourselves in Jakarta had been opened by the Customs. If they took a fancy to anything they helped themselves to it probably to give to their wife as a present! They then badly repackaged everything and sent it on. We even got a calendar box from Ariane's grandmother in Germany, minus the calendar! Ariane and I were very upset that some lovely local woodcraft that we had sent out arrived as little more than matchsticks.

18. Immigration officials at the airport are not much better. Generally, you make sure that you have a $20- bill available to "help" the officer concerned process your paperwork. We have even had visitors who have had to bribe their way OUT of the country!

19. It is almost impossible to get a good nights sleep here as I believe there are over 50,000 mosques (Moslem churches) in Jakarta. As much as I respect peoples religious rights and freedom, each mosque seems to be hell bent on outdoing the next one with regards to having a bigger & louder set of speakers and amplifiers. Four times a day, including at 4am, the peace is broken by the early morning call for prayer. Moslems are meant to be awake and pray at these times. However, for a Christian Westerner at 4am, it almost gives you a heart attack in your sleep. The call to prayer goes on for 30 minutes. For special religious festivals it build's up to a hysteria and goes on for up to 24 hours a day. It can be like a form of Chinese torture of incessant wailing. The expats all believe however that the 4am call is so alike each day, that in some unscrupulous mosques, a tape is probably being used and the mullah (priest) is actually fast asleep. We joke that one day we will sneak into the mosque and replace the tape with one of "Smoke on the Water" by Deep Purple. The image of those famous classic opening chords puncturing the still of the night and booming out over the skyline at 4am is classic. It would be some reward for our son wakening to the call at 4am thinking that his day has begun and that he's ready to party with Mom'n'Dad who are stumbling around exhausted, feeling terrible and still half asleep.

20. Our house, as we have discovered, is beautiful on the outside, but beneath the surface has a lot of problems. The owner spent a small fortune making it look pretty, but nothing on decent piping & wiring, solid flooring etc. - the beneath the surface infrastructure. Not a day has gone by when something hasn't gone wrong. Upstairs the floor has lifted "earthquake" style three times, breaking the floor tiles and leaving a ridge running across the floor. It was caused by water leaking in and bad workmanship but the owner blames us for turning on the air conditioning in the bedrooms. I mean, can you believe it - what are they there for, decoration?! Apparently we are meant to open the windows when the A/C is on! Pipes in the bathroom always leak, the stove and fridge breakdown, about two light bulbs blow everyday due to faulty wiring and we can have up to three to four power cuts a week of duration between 5 minutes and 8 hours. We have had to throw away so much food. If the power goes out now, we empty the fridge and drive to our friends and throw everything in theirs.


Personally, I love Jakarta because it is the perfect place to blend the pursuit of nihilism and hedonism (meaning the cigarettes and beer are cheap, and I can't get laid in the West).


Edited by kenyeung (15 Aug 07 08:08)

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#58791 - 15 Aug 07 08:04 Re: The Top 20 Reasons Not to Move to Dubai (in no particular order!) [Re: kenyeung]
Capt. Mainwaring Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 16 Aug 06
Posts: 3225
Loc: here
I'm rather glad that the twat left.

You other points are noted and agreed with.
_________________________
I also made a vegetarian version,with tempe and tofu chunks for myself and others.Get over it.
Kosong.Wolo.Setunggal.Setunggal.Setunggal.Kosong.Pitu.Setunggal.Kosong.Wolo=Tempik

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#58793 - 15 Aug 07 08:16 Re: The Top 20 Reasons Not to Move to Dubai (in no particular order!) [Re: Capt. Mainwaring]
Dilli Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 26 Feb 06
Posts: 8044
Loc: Nearest Bar
Quoting: Capt. Mainwaring
I'm rather glad that the twat left.

You other points are noted and agreed with.


Except for the can't get laid in the west bit, I have always had to fight them off with a shitty stick!
_________________________
Menace to Sobriety


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#58795 - 15 Aug 07 08:35 Re: The Top 20 Reasons Not to Move to Dubai (in no particular order!) [Re: Dilli]
Capt. Mainwaring Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 16 Aug 06
Posts: 3225
Loc: here
Quoting: Dilli
Quoting: Capt. Mainwaring
I'm rather glad that the twat left.

You other points are noted and agreed with.


Except for the can't get laid in the west bit, I have always had to fight them off with a shitty stick!


Yeh , me too - hell isn't it ?
Think what it must be like for me here - No wonder Mrs M doesn't really trust me on my own - strangely she doesn't care about Thailand but here she goes a bit funny.

_________________________
I also made a vegetarian version,with tempe and tofu chunks for myself and others.Get over it.
Kosong.Wolo.Setunggal.Setunggal.Setunggal.Kosong.Pitu.Setunggal.Kosong.Wolo=Tempik

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#58878 - 15 Aug 07 14:38 Re: The Top 20 Reasons Not to Move to Dubai (in no particular order!) [Re: Capt. Mainwaring]
naga Offline
Member++

Registered: 18 Jan 07
Posts: 260
Loc: undisclosed location
"I'm rather glad that the twat left."

yea, but everything said above is true....
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"Keep on rockin' in the free world"

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#58888 - 15 Aug 07 15:54 Re: The Top 20 Reasons Not to Move to Dubai (in no particular order!) [Re: naga]
Capt. Mainwaring Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 16 Aug 06
Posts: 3225
Loc: here
Quoting: naga
"I'm rather glad that the twat left."

yea, but everything said above is true....


Well Naga , there are two things you could do :-

1) Sit back and ride the wave - you're too wet to travel and still pooping green, there are loads worst places to live. Perhaps if you try and give a bit back to your local community , you will really that things actually aren't that bad and you'll maybe realise that you are doing pretty well.


2) Get yourself to Soekarno Hatta or Juanda ,both places offer the facility to leave.


Can't stand listening to bules whining about the place they chose to live being crap -
_________________________
I also made a vegetarian version,with tempe and tofu chunks for myself and others.Get over it.
Kosong.Wolo.Setunggal.Setunggal.Setunggal.Kosong.Pitu.Setunggal.Kosong.Wolo=Tempik

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#58895 - 15 Aug 07 16:27 Re: The Top 20 Reasons Not to Move to Dubai (in no particular order!) [Re: Capt. Mainwaring]
naga Offline
Member++

Registered: 18 Jan 07
Posts: 260
Loc: undisclosed location
Never said it wasn't a fun place to live, just said what he said was true.

Nobody's complaining and unlike yourself i am not forced to live here (i.e. trapped); furthermore, you should stop drinking during the day...
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"Keep on rockin' in the free world"

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#58896 - 15 Aug 07 16:37 Re: The Top 20 Reasons Not to Move to Dubai (in no particular order!) [Re: naga]
Dilli Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 26 Feb 06
Posts: 8044
Loc: Nearest Bar
We have a GP in our midst!

Or possibly a reformed daytime drinker!

Is it OK if you work night shifts?
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Menace to Sobriety


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#58897 - 15 Aug 07 16:42 Re: The Top 20 Reasons Not to Move to Dubai (in no particular order!) [Re: Dilli]
kenyeung Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 16 Apr 07
Posts: 2374
Loc: Indonesia
Quoting: Dilli
Is it OK if you work night shifts?


Um, best not to go down this path Dilli, cos by night they sharpen their swords.

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#58899 - 15 Aug 07 16:45 Re: The Top 20 Reasons Not to Move to Dubai (in no particular order!) [Re: kenyeung]
Dilli Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 26 Feb 06
Posts: 8044
Loc: Nearest Bar
Umm, err, OK!

Still, I'll drink what I want, when I want, but never too much and I do not listen to those who preach about how I should conduct my life. Day or Night!
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#58902 - 15 Aug 07 18:07 Re: The Top 20 Reasons Not to Move to Dubai (in no particular order!) [Re: naga]
Capt. Mainwaring Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 16 Aug 06
Posts: 3225
Loc: here
Quoting: naga
Never said it wasn't a fun place to live, just said what he said was true.

Nobody's complaining and unlike yourself i am not forced to live here (i.e. trapped); furthermore, you should stop drinking during the day...


Naga, why is I get the feeling that the last thing you enjoyed was ASI? and that was probably not so long ago?

Why is it that dragons get the idea that every bule is "trapped" here? couldn't be further from the truth - I know that there are some impecunious bules that frequent the uglier parts of Jakarta, but some of us actually possess houses here in the more pleasant places because we wish to , not because we have to, hey and guess what? some of us also have a couple of houses dotted elsewhere too.

I will only very occasionally have a beer on a Sunday lunchtime otherwise I never drink until evening - the last Sunday beer was when Dilli nearly met George, and I was fresh off a flight so I figure that a few Guinness's were allowed on that occasion.

_________________________
I also made a vegetarian version,with tempe and tofu chunks for myself and others.Get over it.
Kosong.Wolo.Setunggal.Setunggal.Setunggal.Kosong.Pitu.Setunggal.Kosong.Wolo=Tempik

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#58928 - 15 Aug 07 22:05 Re: The Top 20 Reasons Not to Move to Dubai (in no particular order!) [Re: Capt. Mainwaring]
Dilli Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 26 Feb 06
Posts: 8044
Loc: Nearest Bar
And you kept yourself to yourself while HID was at Kemchicks. Twunt!
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#58929 - 15 Aug 07 22:07 Re: The Top 20 Reasons Not to Move to Dubai (in no particular order!) [Re: Dilli]
Dilli Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 26 Feb 06
Posts: 8044
Loc: Nearest Bar
PS: You have used "impecunious" twice in two days!

Is this a new addition to the vocabulary?
_________________________
Menace to Sobriety


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#58930 - 15 Aug 07 22:46 Re: The Top 20 Reasons Not to Move to Dubai (in no particular order!) [Re: kenyeung]
Shesca Offline
Member*

Registered: 12 Aug 06
Posts: 852
Loc: Jakarta
Quoting: kenyeung
And here's a lovely old anti-Jakarta tirade by some bule
http://members.tripod.com/evan_ferguson/expatjakarta.htm

He says "Jakarta is truly a hellhole and I can't imagine a more frustrating place to live". I've carelessly redacted his rant into a list of:

Quote:
20 Reasons Not to Live in Jakarta

1. Jakarta simply has to be the most filthy, dirty unhygienic city in the world. People simply drop trash all over the place leaving food to rot, paper to disintegrate and plastic to stay forever. The only form of trash organization is paying someone to collect it and throw it onto a smoldering fire/trash pit.... Cars and buses spew out constant plumes of oily, black smoke and there is no such thing as lead free petrol locally (Although the state oil company, Pertamina, does export it!)

2. Tap water is unfit for human consumption and can't even be used for teeth brushing or washing vegetables without enormous infection risks. All water has to be bought from a distilling company. You have to be very careful when you eat out as only certain restaurants prepare their food hygienically. The local vegetables have such a high lead content that the government recently issued a statement advising people to limit their vegetable consumption to try and limit lead poisoning.

3. Many people disobey the law. Indonesians outside Jakarta are extremely polite and respectful, but in the city there are many surly, arrogant, corrupt and compulsive liars and thieves.

4. The nation is predominantly Moslem, about 95%, and I have asked some local friends of mine how they can condone "sinning", given that Islam is such a strict religion with regards the law. My friend told me that "sinning" is strictly forbidden but the "sinners" believe as long as they pray and "confess" at least four times a day, Allah will automatically forgive them for everything! Can you imagine what it would be like in the States, you steal or lie about something constantly, go to church, do a token prayer and you are automatically a good person again - not quite like the occasional minor indiscretion seriously spoken to a priest in a confession!

5. In Indonesia it is a loss of face to admit if you don't know or haven't done something, so people will tell you they do know whatever it is you want to know, when actually they have no idea. To give you an example, you can ask your driver to take you to a meeting and if he knows where it is. He will invariably nod and say, "yes, mister" and then proceed to drive all over the place until it is apparent he is totally lost. If you have an appointment it really messes you up. Similarly, in the office, they will tell you they ordered new stationery etc., even when they haven't. In both cases when you confront them they are not even embarrassed and simply smile. Aaaaaaaaaaarrrghhhhh!!!

6. No-one can take responsibility for their individual actions, and self thought/self starters are almost non existent - those that do tend to be highly successful because of this fact. Of these types, a very high majority are ethnic Chinese Indonesians which leads to a lot of racial jealousy. The Chinese have a strong financially orientated work ethic that serves them well in Indonesia. They have a community within a community and they watch out for one another’s best interests.

7. Corruption is rife and I am so used to bribing police now that I might land in almighty trouble if I am ever stopped by a policeman the next time I am in Europe or the States! Generally, they pull you over for no reason at all, simply to try and elicit a bribe. If you don't pay, they will either take your ID card or even in some cases, beat you up. The first time I actually naively asked the policeman to write me a ticket as I did not know what I had done. He refused and kept asking for money until I gave him some. You really have no option. When they see you are white, they can't believe their luck as they charge you a "bule-price". "Bule" is literally the local translation for a "white honky".

8. Because we almost always have more money than most locals, any price gets inflated, whether it be paying a bribe, buying a piece of furniture, or even getting a tooth extracted! It's always bule-price).

9. Nobody believes in queuing and you can be standing waiting to pay for something in a shop or at the bank when after a long time someone else walks in and either ambles to the front of the queue or even barges their way in. If you say something to the tune of that's rude, to bring it to their attention, they look at you as if you are crazy. They can't understand the problem.

10. It is the same at traffic lights. Generally traffic in Jakarta varies between hellish and downright unbearable. Everyone ignores the red and green and tries to force their way across a junction. A bus can sometimes see that there is no place for him to go once he crosses the junction because the traffic is backed up on the other side, yet he will drive onto the junction, get stuck in the middle and block off the traffic coming across from his left and right sides. Eventually everybody else pushes and squeezes forward from every direction until there is total gridlock. At this point a bunch of young guys with whistles will magically appear and start to order drivers around to try and clear up the mess. Unfortunately since each whistler tends to have his own agenda, matters simply become even more screwed up. Alternatively, if you try and change lanes, cars will invariably speed up to effectively prevent you changing. It is almost as though it's a "macho" thing and it will be a loss of face to them if they let you in. Bus drivers, in stationary traffic, will also jump out and put a brick under the wheel to stop the bus rolling away as generally the brakes might not work too well!

11. Taxi drivers, with the exception of Silver Bird, are always smelly, dirty and rude. If you get in a traffic jam they turn around and start screaming at you as if it were your fault! Their logic is that if you hadn't asked them to drive you, they wouldn't have been where the jam occurs.

12. If you are unlucky enough to be in serious accident you are in trouble. I have heard of (local) people bumping into a pedestrian, being pulled out of their car by a ranting and raving mob and being beaten to death. We are under office instructions to drive away from the scene if we have a bad accident. If you injure someone, irregardless of whether it is your fault, you have to pay "blood money" compensation to the victim's family to "pacify" them.

13. Driving on the roads is also very dangerous. Although most people drive on the correct side of the road, it is not unusual to suddenly face a car, truck or bus bearing down on you on your side. In the countryside it's worse. At the weekends when everyone is streaming either out or into the city, traffic frequently backs up to a crawl with 10 mile tailbacks. As everyone tends to be heading in the same direction, this means that the other side of the road can often be fairly empty. Many drivers who are too impatient to wait simply take off on the wrong side and continue overtaking 20,30 or more cars at a time. Suddenly, another vehicle may begin to come round a corner and approach the overtaking vehicle. The overtaking vehicle, without looking, simply swings back onto it's own side of the road, frequently forcing one or two cars it has just overtaken off the road. Buses are the worst. Although the speed limit is 90kph, they will do 120+ coming at you on the wrong side of the road as per above.

14. Going back to cleanliness, Jakarta is also located at sea level, on the coast. In the old days at particularly high tides, any rivers flowing out to sea would back up and could flood the old downtown region. Nowadays, these rivers are no more than effluent streams, full of chemicals, dead animals, human waste, trash etc. This was beginning to cause an understandable problem when it would back up! Therefore they built dams with pumps at the river mouth to ensure the rivers kept flowing out to sea at high tide. However, all the trash started to block the pumps. Therefore a new career was born. Three guys, wearing no more than underwear, take a deep breath, jump into the waste and clear the pumps by hand! All done for the minimum wage of about $1-50 per day! These guys are aged about 30 but look twice their age and frequently die of disease or infection. Recently, a government official visited them to bestow the luxury of an entitlement to a government pension upon retiral. These guys were so proud, the tears were streaming down their faces - they had become successful and could now support their families, IF they got to retirement age.

15. Going to the bathroom is an adventure in itself. Most Indonesians prefer to use the "traditional" bathrooms over Western ones. Traditional means basically a hole in the ground, over which they squat, without any toilet paper. Indonesians like to "splash" themselves between the legs after they have finished with cups of water to "cleanse" themselves. Consequently, Indonesian bathrooms are swimming in "used" water along with other "bits and pieces" and stink to high heaven - particularly outdoor ones in the heat of summer!

16. There is no social welfare system. If you retire or lose your job there are no pensions or benefits worthwhile mentioning, bar government employees. You simply have to get by. Consequently, families are very big as you have to support your elders. However, because of the poor living conditions and malnourishment people die all the time. I work in an office of 14 and in the short time we have been here almost everyone has had a mother, father-in-law, sister etc, die.

17. The mail service is also corrupt and one Christmas, many packages we sent out or were received by ourselves in Jakarta had been opened by the Customs. If they took a fancy to anything they helped themselves to it probably to give to their wife as a present! They then badly repackaged everything and sent it on. We even got a calendar box from Ariane's grandmother in Germany, minus the calendar! Ariane and I were very upset that some lovely local woodcraft that we had sent out arrived as little more than matchsticks.

18. Immigration officials at the airport are not much better. Generally, you make sure that you have a $20- bill available to "help" the officer concerned process your paperwork. We have even had visitors who have had to bribe their way OUT of the country!

19. It is almost impossible to get a good nights sleep here as I believe there are over 50,000 mosques (Moslem churches) in Jakarta. As much as I respect peoples religious rights and freedom, each mosque seems to be hell bent on outdoing the next one with regards to having a bigger & louder set of speakers and amplifiers. Four times a day, including at 4am, the peace is broken by the early morning call for prayer. Moslems are meant to be awake and pray at these times. However, for a Christian Westerner at 4am, it almost gives you a heart attack in your sleep. The call to prayer goes on for 30 minutes. For special religious festivals it build's up to a hysteria and goes on for up to 24 hours a day. It can be like a form of Chinese torture of incessant wailing. The expats all believe however that the 4am call is so alike each day, that in some unscrupulous mosques, a tape is probably being used and the mullah (priest) is actually fast asleep. We joke that one day we will sneak into the mosque and replace the tape with one of "Smoke on the Water" by Deep Purple. The image of those famous classic opening chords puncturing the still of the night and booming out over the skyline at 4am is classic. It would be some reward for our son wakening to the call at 4am thinking that his day has begun and that he's ready to party with Mom'n'Dad who are stumbling around exhausted, feeling terrible and still half asleep.

20. Our house, as we have discovered, is beautiful on the outside, but beneath the surface has a lot of problems. The owner spent a small fortune making it look pretty, but nothing on decent piping & wiring, solid flooring etc. - the beneath the surface infrastructure. Not a day has gone by when something hasn't gone wrong. Upstairs the floor has lifted "earthquake" style three times, breaking the floor tiles and leaving a ridge running across the floor. It was caused by water leaking in and bad workmanship but the owner blames us for turning on the air conditioning in the bedrooms. I mean, can you believe it - what are they there for, decoration?! Apparently we are meant to open the windows when the A/C is on! Pipes in the bathroom always leak, the stove and fridge breakdown, about two light bulbs blow everyday due to faulty wiring and we can have up to three to four power cuts a week of duration between 5 minutes and 8 hours. We have had to throw away so much food. If the power goes out now, we empty the fridge and drive to our friends and throw everything in theirs.


Personally, I love Jakarta because it is the perfect place to blend the pursuit of nihilism and hedonism (meaning the cigarettes and beer are cheap, and I can't get laid in the West).

Some summary after reading the short article:
1.He sounds like somebody who's been in Indo longer than I have. 2.So why the hell he's complaining?
3.Most of the items he mentioned are what make Indonesia unique compare to other places in the world!! Cmon!!!
4. Indo ROCKS!!!!
_________________________
If you can't describe what you are doing as a process, you don't know what you're doing.

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#58931 - 16 Aug 07 05:30 Re: The Top 20 Reasons Not to Move to Dubai (in no particular order!) [Re: Shesca]
Mullet Offline
Member

Registered: 22 Nov 06
Posts: 5
Loc: Kal-Tim
While working in a gold mine in the jungle I brought an American consultant over for a job. We were standing in the bar and one of the usual whingers started into his "let me tell you what's wrong with this country" tirade. The American listened for a while then started looking at the floor. When the whinger finally asked him what he was looking for the American said "Well, I can't see your feet nailed to the floor, why don't you just fuck off?"

As with most of the submitters above - if you don't like it, vote with your feet. Go.

Mullet

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#58932 - 16 Aug 07 05:43 Re: The Top 20 Reasons Not to Move to Dubai (in no particular order!) [Re: Mullet]
Dilli Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 26 Feb 06
Posts: 8044
Loc: Nearest Bar
I agree. Bye the way, why has it taken so long to make your first post?

You've been visiting regularly since last November.... you should post more.

Incidentally, I did vote with my feet to leave Dubai and come here where things are "a little more earthy"
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#58933 - 16 Aug 07 07:18 Re: The Top 20 Reasons Not to Move to Dubai (in no particular order!) [Re: Dilli]
Capt. Mainwaring Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 16 Aug 06
Posts: 3225
Loc: here
Quoting: Dilli
PS: You have used "impecunious" twice in two days!

Is this a new addition to the vocabulary?


Been a favorite for ages that one - since the day I watched a twat who diddled me out of dough go down for 2 year for "obtaining a pecuniary advantage by deception" .
_________________________
I also made a vegetarian version,with tempe and tofu chunks for myself and others.Get over it.
Kosong.Wolo.Setunggal.Setunggal.Setunggal.Kosong.Pitu.Setunggal.Kosong.Wolo=Tempik

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