Gentlemen, Revolutionaries, Scholars & Bules
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#50107 - 23 Apr 07 20:27 Guns, Death and Whinging
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
A hodgepodge of stuff on the killings:

The UK telegraph doesn't think Cho killed all those people, they seem to think the US gun laws did. And I bet they also refuse to believe that slimy muzzie murderers were responsible for the 7/7 attack, they'll blame Bush and the Jews, and all the quisling bandwagonites will nod so like so many sedated sheep.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Cho's 82-year-old grandfather said "he deserved to die... he ruined his mother's life. I'm glad he died..."

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The newspapers keep saying this nutjob "killed 32 Americans"... In fact, 11 of the victims were not Americans at all: 1 Romanian Jew, 3 Indians, an Indonesian, a Canadian, an Egyptian, a Peruvian, a Puerto Rican, a Chinaman and a Korean. Additionally, one of the victims was a member of the school marching band another had a real weird name.

Anyway, only around 21 actual Americans died, that's about the same as the Montreal Ecole Polytechnique massacre (that's in Canada where they have really strict gun laws.)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

ALEX MASSIE
the Scotsman

WHEN A former Miss America was confronted by a thief in her Kentucky barn last week, the plucky 82-year-old knew just how to react. Venus Ramey, whose figure adorned Second World War B52 bombers, pulled out her .38 calibre handgun, leaned on her walking frame to steady her aim and coolly shot out the tyres of the startled intruder's getaway vehicle. She then held him at gunpoint, flagged down a motorist to raise the alarm and calmly waited until the sheriff arrived.

The story was celebrated as an example of the unquenchable American frontier spirit and the inalienable constitutional right to defend hearth and home with firearms.
/.../

Response by Josh Geller of California:

Miss America's use of her weapon is hardly unique. the same thing happens every day, in the United States.

When I drove a taxi, I used my revolver to prevent a crime on three separate occasions. I didn't even pull the trigger on any of them: the display the weapon and my willingness to use it were sufficient.

But all of this is to the side, as is the tragedy of Virginia Tech. The right to keep and bear arms is not there to prevent crime. It is there to prevent tyranny. The functional difference between free people and slaves is that free people may arm themselves.

It is a pity and a shame that the citizenry of Scotland and England, which used to be the freest countries in the World, should have acquiesced to being disarmed. But that is none of my concern. That this does not happen in the United States is.

I have no problem with debarring mentally ill (such as the unfortunate Mr Cho) persons from the use of arms.



++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


AND FINALLY

UK 'worst country for children' - and most violent UK 'worst country for children' - and the most violent

The UK has the lowest level of child well-being among the world’s richest countries, and it is also the most violent country in the European Union according to two new international surveys, both of which highlight the role of alcohol in the problems they identify.

The first survey, carried out for UNICEF and designed primarily to measure child poverty, assessed 21 of the world’s richest countries on the basis of six dimensions of child well-being including material factors of wealth and poverty, health, family relationships and risky behaviour. It found that overall the UK ranked lowest as the worst country for children among those studied.
_________________________
Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

Top
#50114 - 23 Apr 07 21:47 Re: Guns, Death and Whinging [Re: riccardo]
The Great Gonzo Offline
Member+

Registered: 13 Dec 06
Posts: 134
Loc: Big Durian
Who cares if the victims were Americans or not? The fact is 32 people were killed.
14 people were killed in Montreal... still very bad, but less than 1/2 of this toll.

The major point is how easy it was for a man with mental issues to walk into a store and purchase two hand guns legally and commit such a crime.

What does the last article about child welfare in the UK have to do with these killings in Virginia? I don't get it.
_________________________
"Oh, you're not so bad yourself, Cockface. Where are you two from? Nose City?"

Top
#50129 - 24 Apr 07 07:57 Re: Guns, Death and Whinging [Re: The Great Gonzo]
Dilli Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 26 Feb 06
Posts: 8044
Loc: Nearest Bar
"It is a pity and a shame that the citizenry of Scotland and England, which used to be the freest countries in the World, should have acquiesced to being disarmed."

They have, to the very best of my knowledge, never been formally armed (except during wartime) in the past 250 years. Internal strife ended at the battle of Culleoden,when Scots were forbidden to wear Kilts play the bagpipes and bear arms, the English on the other hand only got tooled up when their lords made them.
_________________________
Menace to Sobriety


Top
#50135 - 24 Apr 07 10:12 Re: Guns, Death and Whinging [Re: riccardo]
Roy's Hair Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 08 Nov 06
Posts: 3974
Loc: jakarta
Quoting: riccardo
The right to keep and bear arms is not there to prevent crime. It is there to prevent tyranny. The functional difference between free people and slaves is that free people may arm themselves.


I've never understood this argument. How is a few guns going to stop the US Military Industrial complex? Not to mention the fear and paranoia pumped out by the media 24/7 ? You expect US citizens to rise up spontaneously en masse and go totin' their Lugers down on Capital Hill? It is YOU that has been duped if you really believe that this frontier era machismo bollocks applies in the hi tech age of mass production and government storm troopers. The unholy capitalist/democractic alliance - essentially one of contradiction - has now gone way beyond the frontier. It is a dream dreamed for you. Your life becoming a series of increasingly meaningless choices constructed for you by the invisible hand of the machine. Pepsi or Coke. Republican or Democrat. Only an understanding of our lives as constuctions of the information age power heirarchy can lead to enlightenment. The invidious divide and conquer effects of the market driven world will not be stopped by gunpowder and bullets. You think those with their fingers on the levers give a shit that the USA's most disenfranchised citizens can prowl the streets shooting each other?? Would they fear that or applaud that you think? I'll let you decide.


Edited by Roy's hair (24 Apr 07 10:17)
_________________________
Chinese like more traditional patterns on their ring.

Top
#50136 - 24 Apr 07 10:24 Re: Guns, Death and Whinging [Re: Roy's Hair]
Roy's Hair Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 08 Nov 06
Posts: 3974
Loc: jakarta
check this out:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2064157,00.html
_________________________
Chinese like more traditional patterns on their ring.

Top
#50137 - 24 Apr 07 10:40 Re: Guns, Death and Whinging [Re: Roy's Hair]
chewwyUK Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 14 Sep 06
Posts: 2392
Loc: Jakarta
Interesting article on the UK children there Ric ... irrelevant to this topic but interesting none the less. I think you will find this increase is a direct result of our open immigration policy going a little sour. The UK are taking in an amazing amount of refugees which is leading to ghetto style areas which are fast becoming no go areas. I guess its what happens when you have good intentions but you don't have the resources to do the job properly.

anyway ---- be interesting to see if we manage to balance things out as it seems a little strange having a bunch of wanna be gangsters walking around beating the crap out of people and stabbing them. Only last month a mate of mine had his HP taken and was kicked to the ground by about 10 kids between the ages of 10 and 15 ...
_________________________
Edited by Piss Salon
Edit Reason: taste

Top
#50168 - 24 Apr 07 12:29 Re: Guns, Death and Whinging [Re: chewwyUK]
Roy's Hair Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 08 Nov 06
Posts: 3974
Loc: jakarta
yeah it's them kids I'm afraid of
_________________________
Chinese like more traditional patterns on their ring.

Top
#50178 - 24 Apr 07 13:02 Re: Guns, Death and Whinging [Re: Roy's Hair]
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
CHEW and GONZO, the article on children and violence was just something I found interesting. I only posted the first paragraphs, but if you'll click the link and scroll down to the violence part, it really sheds a new light on supposedly civilized, violence-free, gun-free merry ol' England.

-----------

The Hair of Roy:
Who is this "YOU" that you are referring to? I (riccardo) merely pasted that comment from some guy named Geller who was responding to the Scotsman article. I don't necessarily agree or disagree with any of those things... it's just, as I say, a hodgepodge of different people's ideas.

-------------

As to why I mentioned the number of Americans, well that was kind of a sick joke -- again, I guess I need to use those stupid emoticons so everyone can understand...

-------------

AND finally, As far as I've read, he was NOT legally allowed to purchase a firearm because of his past psych problems. So the purchase was in fact illegal, but then again the gun shop clerk would have no way of knowing, because there are no checks done in the state of Virginia.

Also it was, in fact, ILLEGAL for him to have ANY firearms on the VT campus.

So, on those two points it was not the "lax gun laws" that failed, it was the implementation/enforcement.

-----------------

Another little factoid, which explains why there was no lockdown or alert after the first shootings.
The roommate of the first victim (Emily) told the police that it was probably Emily's boyfriend and that he was a gun enthusiast. Within minutes, they captured the boyfriend (who was completely innocent) and thought they had their man and that was why they didn't think there was a further threat.

basically shoddy police work by wannabe campus cops, who took the word of a hysterical 19-year-old chick as solid.
_________________________
Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

Top
#50179 - 24 Apr 07 13:21 Re: Guns, Death and Whinging [Re: riccardo]
chewwyUK Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 14 Sep 06
Posts: 2392
Loc: Jakarta
Rick dig a little deeper on that article ..... The truth is the UK is a nation with a very violent background (ever heard of Britain backing away from a fight??). I don't think any British people have ever denied that violence is present. The same level of violence has always existed in Britian but the results of this violence is far more visible than before due to the increase of guns and knives.

Also to blame is the fact that we are taking in many refugees who arrive from various backgrounds with little money and no access to jobs until they have been processed by the system. The result is people turn to crime .. very violent crime.

In my day (which is not that long ago) the worst it got was fisty-cuffs with the odd nutter with a big stick or chain. The new generation is letting the school yard scrap escalate in to knives being pulled !!

Like I say .. we have always been a violent nation .... but the more access people have to weapons designed to kill the more life will be lost
_________________________
Edited by Piss Salon
Edit Reason: taste

Top
#50180 - 24 Apr 07 13:34 Re: Guns, Death and Whinging [Re: chewwyUK]
chewwyUK Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 14 Sep 06
Posts: 2392
Loc: Jakarta
btw ... only saying dig a little deeper on that article because I would be interested what you come up with.
_________________________
Edited by Piss Salon
Edit Reason: taste

Top
#50186 - 24 Apr 07 16:39 Re: Guns, Death and Whinging [Re: Dilli]
Capt. Mainwaring Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 16 Aug 06
Posts: 3225
Loc: here
Quoting: Dilli
"It is a pity and a shame that the citizenry of Scotland and England, which used to be the freest countries in the World, should have acquiesced to being disarmed."

They have, to the very best of my knowledge, never been formally armed (except during wartime) in the past 250 years. Internal strife ended at the battle of Culleoden,when Scots were forbidden to wear Kilts play the bagpipes and bear arms, the English on the other hand only got tooled up when their lords made them.


Too right , any group of individuals who wander around blowing into a chair cushion whilst wearing a dress and eating deep fried mars bars need keeping in check you know .

As for bearing arms and all that , dirty nasty dangerous things , somebody might end up getting hurt messing with stuff like that .
As is mention , there is a growing culture of violence in the UK , largely caused by some of our less savoury "guests" , but thankfully whilst slowly increasing , firearms do not feature as strongly as they do with our transatlantic cousins .
_________________________
I also made a vegetarian version,with tempe and tofu chunks for myself and others.Get over it.
Kosong.Wolo.Setunggal.Setunggal.Setunggal.Kosong.Pitu.Setunggal.Kosong.Wolo=Tempik

Top
#50187 - 24 Apr 07 17:00 Re: Guns, Death and Whinging [Re: riccardo]
Capt. Mainwaring Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 16 Aug 06
Posts: 3225
Loc: here
Quoting: riccardo
CHEW and GONZO, the article on children and violence was just something I found interesting. I only posted the first paragraphs, but if you'll click the link and scroll down to the violence part, it really sheds a new light on supposedly civilized, violence-free, gun-free merry ol' England.

-----------

The Hair of Roy:
Who is this "YOU" that you are referring to? I (riccardo) merely pasted that comment from some guy named Geller who was responding to the Scotsman article. I don't necessarily agree or disagree with any of those things... it's just, as I say, a hodgepodge of different people's ideas.

-------------

As to why I mentioned the number of Americans, well that was kind of a sick joke -- again, I guess I need to use those stupid emoticons so everyone can understand...

-------------

AND finally, As far as I've read, he was NOT legally allowed to purchase a firearm because of his past psych problems. So the purchase was in fact illegal, but then again the gun shop clerk would have no way of knowing, because there are no checks done in the state of Virginia.

Also it was, in fact, ILLEGAL for him to have ANY firearms on the VT campus.

So, on those two points it was not the "lax gun laws" that failed, it was the implementation/enforcement.

-----------------

Another little factoid, which explains why there was no lockdown or alert after the first shootings.
The roommate of the first victim (Emily) told the police that it was probably Emily's boyfriend and that he was a gun enthusiast. Within minutes, they captured the boyfriend (who was completely innocent) and thought they had their man and that was why they didn't think there was a further threat.

BASICALLY shoddy police work by wannabe campus cops, who took the word of a hysterical 19-year-old chick as solid.


Well he sure as hell took notice of the fact that he wasn't legally allowed to possess a firearm . The way it works is this :- If someone can prove proper reason to own a firearm , with secure storage , then they apply for a permit , which is issued only after exhaustive checks , then he gets to go to a licensed dealer who supplies the article required , and marks the permit as fulfilled , ammunition may only be purchased in nominated quantities - least that's the way the UK do it , but not the Americans , a ten year old can kit himself out with full bore pistols and heavy calibre rifles (do you still have fucking T-rex's roaming about that you may need to subdue ? ) and then turn the schoolyard into Beirut on a friday night .
please note the subtle differences between legislation , and our natural sarcasm regarding your arrangements across the pond .

Until a few years back it was the "RIGHT" of any "FIT PERSON" to own or otherwise possess a smooth bored lethal barrelled weapon , of barrel length not less than 24" which had to be in a slip or sleeve whilst in a public place - the police did not have any right to ask you what your reason for possession was , and where you intended to use it , in fact to ask the question was a breach of section 5 of the Police Act .
It took 100 years get wise to the fact that the easiest thing to make a bloody great hole in a bank window was a shotgun , a few hacksaw strokes , and the job was done , and 1650 ftlbs of energy was available to ruin someones day - another loophole that took ages to close was the fact that pistols could have a bot of tube tackwelded in place of the original rifled barrel , and so long as it was 24" and smooth , the there was no registration of transfer of the same - again , the fact that suitable shot ammunition wasn't available didn't matter , we are after all a trusting nation , and no one would do that would they ?

Now , we can't own a fucking zippo lighter without a permit , and Riccardo old boy , get used to the idea , because the US will follow at some point
_________________________
I also made a vegetarian version,with tempe and tofu chunks for myself and others.Get over it.
Kosong.Wolo.Setunggal.Setunggal.Setunggal.Kosong.Pitu.Setunggal.Kosong.Wolo=Tempik

Top
#50193 - 24 Apr 07 20:09 Re: Guns, Death and Whinging [Re: Capt. Mainwaring]
Roy's Hair Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 08 Nov 06
Posts: 3974
Loc: jakarta
Quoting: Capt. Mainwaring


Now , we can't own a fucking zippo lighter without a permit , and Riccardo old boy , get used to the idea , because the US will follow at some point


Yer war on terror and yer right to bear arms may indeed be pulling in opposite directions.
_________________________
Chinese like more traditional patterns on their ring.

Top
#50197 - 24 Apr 07 20:43 Re: Guns, Death and Whinging [Re: Roy's Hair]
The Great Gonzo Offline
Member+

Registered: 13 Dec 06
Posts: 134
Loc: Big Durian
Quote:

As far as I've read, he was NOT legally allowed to purchase a firearm because of his past psych problems. So the purchase was in fact illegal, but then again the gun shop clerk would have no way of knowing, because there are no checks done in the state of Virginia.


Those restrictions are pretty fucking useful then, aren't they?
basically they rely on the honour system...
Are you crazy? Nope, take my word for it.
Are you going to kill anyone with these weapons? Nope... just target practice...

Fucking pathetic I say. Just goes to show how fucking retarded Yanks can be... at the very least, freedoms or rights or what have you, it should be MORE difficult to get a firearm than getting alcohol or drugs. It should be MORE difficult to get firearms than to get help for your mental health problems... sadly in the US this is not the case, and no doubt there will be more and more of these senseless murders.

And about your jokes... yeah they are pretty sick and idiotic, and I should know that they are just jokes coming from you... however I could imagine a lot of Yanks say the exact same things that you did and not mean them as jokes - especially the hardcore right wingers.
_________________________
"Oh, you're not so bad yourself, Cockface. Where are you two from? Nose City?"

Top
#50201 - 24 Apr 07 23:47 Re: Guns, Death and Whinging [Re: The Great Gonzo]
kenyeung Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 16 Apr 07
Posts: 2374
Loc: Indonesia
Yeah man. It's like you can buy a gun and kill people, but you can't get a threesome. Clearly we have our priorities wrong. And the women of this forum, assuming they're not simply guises of Cuckoo the Jew, need to be more proactive in providing willing responses to my request for threesome partners. No guns.

Thanks.

Top
#50202 - 25 Apr 07 00:59 Re: Guns, Death and Whinging [Re: The Great Gonzo]
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
Quoting: The Great Gonzo
Quote:

As far as I've read, he was NOT legally allowed to purchase a firearm because of his past psych problems. So the purchase was in fact illegal, but then again the gun shop clerk would have no way of knowing, because there are no checks done in the state of Virginia.


Those restrictions are pretty fucking useful then, aren't they?
basically they rely on the honour system...
Are you crazy? Nope, take my word for it.
Are you going to kill anyone with these weapons? Nope... just target practice...

Fucking pathetic I say.


Agreed, more than pathetic, totally useless. For the record, I'm not one of those knee-jerk libs that hates everything about the whole idea of guns AND... I'm not one of those knee-jerk gun-lovers like the NRA dimwits who say guns are some kind of God-given right. I totally support realistic, pragmatism -- not necessarily government-created laws -- and doing what is necessary to keep guns out of the hand of irresponsible freaks, doing what is necessary to keep psychos and criminals (even potential ones) off the streets.

basically, if I had my druthers, I'd have the good Christian White Male citizens of every community in every city, state and county organize a fortnightly, public firing squad in the main square. The people on the wall would be degenerates, criminals, psychos, cripples and those that bow their heads 5 times a day to a false god. Ya see, this Cho feller would've been up on that wall years ago. Problem solved.

But NOOOOO. Instead, we got people like Tenille's partner (surely you dopes remember the greatest musical duo of all-time -- the Captain and Tenille?) boring us to tears with interminable paragraphs that remind us of those 5th grade tests where the teacher makes us find all 200 errors.... Until we throw up our hands and say, "okay, okay, okay, okay -- strict gun laws are really cool."

Now I'm wondering what kind of emoticon I'll need...
_________________________
Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

Top
#50210 - 25 Apr 07 07:40 Re: Guns, Death and Whinging [Re: riccardo]
Capt. Mainwaring Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 16 Aug 06
Posts: 3225
Loc: here


Quoting: riccardo


Agreed, more than pathetic, totally useless. For the record, I'm not one of those knee-jerk libs that hates everything about the whole idea of guns AND... I'm not one of those knee-jerk gun-lovers like the NRA dimwits who say guns are some kind of God-given right. I totally support realistic, pragmatism -- not necessarily government-created laws -- and doing what is necessary to keep guns out of the hand of irresponsible freaks, doing what is necessary to keep psychos and criminals (even potential ones) off the streets.

basically, if I had my druthers, I'd have the good Christian White Male citizens of every community in every city, state and county organize a fortnightly, public firing squad in the main square. The people on the wall would be degenerates, criminals, psychos, cripples and those that bow their heads 5 times a day to a false god. Ya see, this Cho feller would've been up on that wall years ago. Problem solved.

But NOOOOO. Instead, we got people like Tenille's partner (surely you dopes remember the greatest musical duo of all-time -- the Captain and Tenille?) boring us to tears with interminable paragraphs that remind us of those 5th grade tests where the teacher makes us find all 200 errors.... Until we throw up our hands and say, "okay, okay, okay, okay -- strict gun laws are really cool."

Now I'm wondering what kind of emoticon I'll need...



How about the evangelists who desecrate the christian religion with their shouting and ranting ? and how about the strange looking article with his eyes too close together (not George Bush) who invites me to forward all my worldly worth to his bank account ?

I'll take you comments as tongue in cheek - you know Riccardo , since you aren't on God's right hand , though you think you are , you can't be entirely sure that those that bow their head five times a day are wrong , come judgement day , you had better hope you are right , ' cos if you aren't , you are in for more than a bit of disappointment and a sore arse for all eternity - I prefer to keep my options open with regard to these matters , and until I know otherwise will take care not to deride the beliefs of others .

Emoticon ? How about one of a strange looking American with a startled expression , who's throat has just been grabbed by the great big hairy hand of the Capt and then had a lit klobot inserted up his arse by someone who objects to you continually take the piss out of his country that you now demean yourself to take advantage of .
I trust you understand the sort of expression that I seek to describe .
_________________________
I also made a vegetarian version,with tempe and tofu chunks for myself and others.Get over it.
Kosong.Wolo.Setunggal.Setunggal.Setunggal.Kosong.Pitu.Setunggal.Kosong.Wolo=Tempik

Top
#50469 - 30 Apr 07 09:44 Re: Guns, Death and Whinging [Re: Capt. Mainwaring]
Capt. Mainwaring Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 16 Aug 06
Posts: 3225
Loc: here
3 more dead Riccardo , and guess what ? he didn't tickle them to death - any comment ?
_________________________
I also made a vegetarian version,with tempe and tofu chunks for myself and others.Get over it.
Kosong.Wolo.Setunggal.Setunggal.Setunggal.Kosong.Pitu.Setunggal.Kosong.Wolo=Tempik

Top
#50473 - 30 Apr 07 11:19 Re: Guns, Death and Whinging [Re: Capt. Mainwaring]
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
Seriously, what the heck is the difference between a murderer with a gun and murderer with a knife? If anything, a case could be made that it's more humane to be killed instantaneously by a shot to the head, than being butchered alive over several minutes and left to die ....

-----------------------------------------

From The Times
April 26, 2007
Asian knife killings double in ten years
Dominic Kennedy
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/law/article1706799.ece
Asian people are twice as likely to be stabbed or "bottled" to death as they were a decade ago, according to Home Office figures released under the Freedom of Information Act.

The statistics, until now unpublished, reveal that the proportion of Asians - particularly those from the Indian subcontinent - among those killed "by sharp instruments" has risen from 4.5% to 8.5%.

An alarming surge in such killings happened around the time of the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, The Times can disclose.

/.../
Racial tensions in England had already been worsening in the run-up to 9/11 as Asian youths rioted in northern mill towns. Chris Allen, of Birmingham University, a co-author of the EU report, said that the anti-Muslim climate was a likely factor in the sudden surge in fatal stabbings.

Richard Garside, director of the Centre for Crime and Justice Studies at King’s College London, said that the decade-long increase in killings of Asians was striking.

As an Asian person in England and Wales you are twice as likely to be stabbed to death. As a black person, this figure increases to six times....

-----------------------------------
http://www.nj.com/sports/times/index.ssf?/base/sports-3/1177647024196450.xml&coll=5

No laws or restrictions can prevent an evil person with an insane mind from committing such an atrocity. However, it goes without saying that we are sure to hear how it all could have been prevented with stricter gun-control laws.

Never mind the fact that states with right-to-carry laws have lower crime rates than states with the strictest gun-control laws. Never mind the fact that countries like Great Britain and Australia, which have taken away all the guns, have seen their crime rates soar well above what they were before the laws were passed.

---------------------------------------------

At 9:35 a.m. on a March day in 1996, a disgruntled former scout leader walked into a primary school gym in Dunblane, Scotland, with four guns and killed 16 children and their teacher in Britain's worst mass shooting. The crime still causes Britons to recoil when they recall the victims, many of them only 5 years old.
Although England already had tough restrictions in place, champions of the gun control laws say the new limits have been vital in keeping fatal shootings relatively rare. Still, guns continue to proliferate and the law has not kept firearms out of the hands of some criminals.

Since even stricter laws came into force after that shooting in 1996, the number of crimes in which a handgun was used in England and Wales has risen by 300% year-on-year.
_________________________
Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

Top
#50474 - 30 Apr 07 11:40 Re: Guns, Death and Whinging [Re: riccardo]
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
August 19, 2005, 8:17 a.m.
Canada Blames Us
Gun-control folly here, up north, across the pond...
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/lott200508190817.asp
By John R. Lott Jr.

The experiences in the U.K. and Australia, two island nations whose borders are much easier to monitor, should also give Canadian gun controllers some pause. The British government banned handguns in 1997 but recently reported that gun crime in England and Wales nearly doubled in the four years from 1998-99 to 2002-03.

Crime was not supposed to rise after handguns were banned. Yet, since 1996 the serious-violent-crime rate has soared by 69 percent; robbery is up 45 percent, and murders up 54 percent. Before the law, armed robberies had fallen 50 percent from 1993 to 1997, but as soon as handguns were banned the robbery rate shot back up, almost to its 1993 level.

The 2000 International Crime Victimization Survey, the last survey completed, shows the violent-crime rate in England and Wales was twice the rate of that in the U.S. When the new survey for 2004 comes out later this year, that gap will undoubtedly have widened even further as crimes reported to British police have since soared by 35 percent, while those in the U.S. have declined 6 percent.

Australia has also seen its violent-crime rates soar immediately after its 1996 Port Arthur gun-control measures. Violent crime rates averaged 32-percent higher in the six years after the law was passed (from 1997 to 2002) than they did in 1995. The same comparisons for armed-robbery rates showed increases of 74 percent.

During the 1990s, just as Britain and Australia were more severely regulating guns, the U.S. was greatly liberalizing individuals' abilities to carry firearms. Thirty seven of the fifty states now have so-called right-to-carry laws that let law-abiding adults carry concealed handguns after passing a criminal background check and paying a fee. Only half the states require some training, usually around three to five hours. Yet crime has fallen even faster in these states than the national average. Overall, the states in the U.S. that have experienced the fastest growth rates in gun ownership during the 1990s have experienced the biggest drops in murders and other violent crimes.
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/lott200508190817.asp
_________________________
Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

Top
#50477 - 30 Apr 07 12:15 Re: Guns, Death and Whinging [Re: riccardo]
chewwyUK Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 14 Sep 06
Posts: 2392
Loc: Jakarta
I cant talk for Australia as I haven't spent any great deal of time there for the past few years. I will say that Great Britain is suffering from a loop hole in the gun laws that allows anybody to buy a "replica gun". These guns look and feel like the real thing and sadly any idiot can convert these guns in to real guns in any school metal work room.

So while we have been tough on Gun laws in the UK we have seen a massive increase in the "replica gun" sales. These guns are flooding the market and the government needs to control this area also.

Out of interest can you come up with any figures on how many people are killed and wounded by guns every year in America, Australia and the UK instead of talking %?
_________________________
Edited by Piss Salon
Edit Reason: taste

Top
#50481 - 30 Apr 07 12:28 Re: Guns, Death and Whinging [Re: chewwyUK]
chewwyUK Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 14 Sep 06
Posts: 2392
Loc: Jakarta
Here is some more Information I found at http://www.iansa.org/campaigns_events/documents/2006/Statistics-2.pdf

- In Australia, an evaluation in October 2004 of the 1990s gun law reforms found that they had produced dramatic reductions in firearms related deaths.

· In Canada, where a series of gun law reforms have been introduced since 1991, there was a 46% drop in the recorded gun homicide rate by 2003. This effect was most pronounced for women – while the gun homicide rate for men fell by 37%, it decreased by 61% for women.

· In the UK, the gun laws were reformed in 1997. By 2003, the gun homicide rate for men in England and Wales had dropped 33%, while the gun homicide rate for women had fallen by 48%.
_________________________
Edited by Piss Salon
Edit Reason: taste

Top
#50482 - 30 Apr 07 12:48 Re: Guns, Death and Whinging [Re: chewwyUK]
chewwyUK Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 14 Sep 06
Posts: 2392
Loc: Jakarta
This makes for interesting reading - a graphic of the US gun death statistics: http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2007/04/21/weekinreview/20070422_MARSH_GRAPHIC.html#

For those of you who dont want to click through here are some of the statistics:

* In 2004 (the most up to date figures available) a total of 29,569 people were killed by guns (An average of 81 people per day)

* 64,389 were injured (an average of 176 per day)



_________________________
Edited by Piss Salon
Edit Reason: taste

Top
#50483 - 30 Apr 07 13:00 Re: Guns, Death and Whinging [Re: chewwyUK]
chewwyUK Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 14 Sep 06
Posts: 2392
Loc: Jakarta
Injury by being fired, used as a blunt instrument or in a threat (For England and Wales only)

YEAR NUMBER

97/98 - 2074
98/99 - 2378
99/00 - 3172
00/01 - 3203
01/02 - 3767
02/03 - 4556
03/04 - 4762
04/05 - 5409
05/06 - 5001
_________________________
Edited by Piss Salon
Edit Reason: taste

Top
#50484 - 30 Apr 07 13:02 Re: Guns, Death and Whinging [Re: chewwyUK]
chewwyUK Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 14 Sep 06
Posts: 2392
Loc: Jakarta
Gun Homicide for England and Wales Only

YEAR NUMBER

99/00 - 62
00/01 - 73
01/02 - 97
02/03 - 81
03/04 - 68
04/05 - 78
05/06 - 50
_________________________
Edited by Piss Salon
Edit Reason: taste

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >


Moderator:  NetCop