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#46277 - 01 Mar 07 12:58 Why Indonesia Matters
nasigoreng Offline
Member

Registered: 11 Feb 07
Posts: 17
Loc: jakarta
This week's time magazine cover story features rising Muslim influence in Indonesian society:

Indonesia matters. The battle for its soul is taking place within a wider war in the Islamic world pitting progressive Muslims, who believe their faith can coexist with modernity and liberal Western influences, against fundamentalists, who want the religoin to return to its more austere Arab roots. What happens in Indonesia, could presage the direction other Islamic societies take.
********************

"They preach that Islam and Shari'a are an elixir," says Azymardi Azra, a prominient Muslim scholar and director of the graduate school at Jakarta's State Islamic University.
"The state's social institutions have not fixed problems like drugs, prostitution, gambling and corruption. So people think maybe the mosques can solve things that the government has not."


It was a decent article; i thought it was a bit short, i'm happy they mentioned several important items like the imprisonment of the kindergarden teachers and the violent raids done by groups like FPI. Lots of outstanding quotes that show how uneducated some of these Islamic leaders are.
All in all, it was a well-balanced article and i felt that I learned something about Indonesian perceptions; specifically, rejection of western materialism and democracy for Salafi Islmic doctrines. basically: Indonesians can't get ahead economically so they're trying to get ahead spiritually (for the next life, of course).

any comments on the article?


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#46325 - 02 Mar 07 01:51 Re: Why Indonesia Matters [Re: nasigoreng]
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
Sounds interesting, I'll hunt down the issue. I think the real tragedy is that this Arab-style, ultra-conservative dogma has seeped into the average muslims' minds. They've never really been taught everything (i.e. tabula rasa) about their religion and they're now being told that THIS is the best way and because they don't know any better, they simply believe it. Whether they themselves live it is a different thing, but the bottom line is they will not criticize it or question the fanatics' actions at the risk of being ostracized.

The battle must be won within the minds of the average, moderate muslims here. Societies will always have fanatical fringe groups, but if the moderate, middle groups reject them, they are simply marginalized and meaningless. This is not happening in Indonesia, so the freaks are getting bolder, growing in number and feeling more accepted, just because everyone is afraid to speak out.
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#46349 - 02 Mar 07 03:05 Re: Why Indonesia Matters [Re: riccardo]
doremi Offline
Member+++

Registered: 17 Jan 07
Posts: 488
Loc: slouch couch
Ricc,

Here's the url to the Time's article
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1592576,00.html

Agreed about your point: the moderates are "afraid to speak out".
Sad.

Nasigoreng mentioned an interesting point about pursuing this religous fanatism because Indonesia "can't get ahead economically". This uprising is a recent phenomena (not sure this is the right word), I would say Al Qaida has influenced this uprising, what do you think?



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#46427 - 02 Mar 07 11:56 Re: Why Indonesia Matters [Re: doremi]
nasigoreng Offline
Member

Registered: 11 Feb 07
Posts: 17
Loc: jakarta
One motif not fully addressed in the article is how Islam is gaining converts worldwide: it's understandable that the economically indigent might look for hope in the form of religion, but Islam has become the ideology of the oppressed massses all over the world. The religion is being marketed as the answer to the West's overbearing and vacuous consumer culture. But a lot of the terrorists behind the 9/11 attacks were quite wealthy.

Strategically, 70-80% of the world's oil and other consumer goods destined for the US/Canada pass through the sensitive Malacca Strait between Indonesia and Malaysia. Imagine the affects it could have on the world economy if this area came under the control of virulent anti-western interests.

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#46440 - 02 Mar 07 16:12 Re: Why Indonesia Matters [Re: nasigoreng]
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
Quoting: nwgirl
I would say Al Qaida has influenced this uprising, what do you think?

Yes, Qaeda to some extent, but greater than that, as the article says (I read it finally) the heavy, widespread Salafi and Wahabbi influence here on schools and neighborhood mosques, all funded by Arab oil money.



Quoting: nasigoreng

Strategically, 70-80% of the world's oil and other consumer goods destined for the US/Canada pass through the sensitive Malacca Strait between Indonesia and Malaysia. Imagine the affects it could have on the world economy if this area came under the control of virulent anti-western interests.


I can quite easily imagine the affects. Within hours of it coming under control by "virulent anti-western interests", these fools would have a tactical nuke inbound, pronto like. Any further questions?
_________________________
Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

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#46954 - 08 Mar 07 02:55 Re: Why Indonesia Matters [Re: riccardo]
emmajkt Offline
Member*

Registered: 02 Mar 07
Posts: 698
Loc: here, there and everywhere
I can't believe anyone will ever think that Indonesia can't get a head economically and they try to get head Spiritually. Prostitution, gambling, corruption and drugs are problem in every country since zero century, not only happend these days and in indonesia. The problem here is people don't want to think for themselve, they turn themselve even more fool to try to get a head spiritually, believing 'ustadz' or preacher about what is a good life and how to get to heaven ( duh ). You wanna be a good person? why not think rationally.. religion is not the answer. What you can do for your country, what can you change to make things better for other people too.

This whole country have a wrong basic principal. Look at Pancasila, and think carefully about what it said for sila who have this point 'keluargaan' which is the basic democracy in Indonesia, Indo people will always try to find solution in family-sh way ( i know that's not a word ) but i used it as an example, 'Kekeluargaan' is the basic of corruption, one good theory but became very bad practise, that is why indo is so corrupt. This country have very dodgy basic. The basic belief as the the roof of one union is blur, and noone can see.. So wanna if people want to make good change for indonesia, people should change the way they think
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#47140 - 09 Mar 07 22:45 Re: Why Indonesia Matters [Re: nasigoreng]
JHVH1 Offline
Member+

Registered: 09 Mar 07
Posts: 115
Loc: Tegal
Quoting: nasigoreng
This week's time magazine cover story features rising Muslim influence in Indonesian society:

Indonesia matters. The battle for its soul is taking place within a wider war in the Islamic world pitting progressive Muslims, who believe their faith can coexist with modernity and liberal Western influences, against fundamentalists, who want the religoin to return to its more austere Arab roots. What happens in Indonesia, could presage the direction other Islamic societies take.
********************

"They preach that Islam and Shari'a are an elixir," says Azymardi Azra, a prominient Muslim scholar and director of the graduate school at Jakarta's State Islamic University.
"The state's social institutions have not fixed problems like drugs, prostitution, gambling and corruption. So people think maybe the mosques can solve things that the government has not."


It was a decent article; i thought it was a bit short, i'm happy they mentioned several important items like the imprisonment of the kindergarden teachers and the violent raids done by groups like FPI. Lots of outstanding quotes that show how uneducated some of these Islamic leaders are.
All in all, it was a well-balanced article and i felt that I learned something about Indonesian perceptions; specifically, rejection of western materialism and democracy for Salafi Islmic doctrines. basically: Indonesians can't get ahead economically so they're trying to get ahead spiritually (for the next life, of course).

any comments on the article?



Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the FPI basically a preman group wielded by the TNI during the succession crisis to forment unrest in urban areas? What's more, they have previously avoided entertainment areas paying out large sums to the army. Their motives seem more political than spiritual.

Re: the last comment, does Islamicization not tend to cycle through Indonesia and strengthen in times of uncertainty and crisis? Fix the economy (I know it seems pie-in-the-sky) and you'll see a corresponding decline in attraction to faith. Remember when you'd be hard pressed to see too many jilbabs back in the glory days of the early nineties?

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#47141 - 09 Mar 07 22:47 Re: Why Indonesia Matters [Re: nasigoreng]
JHVH1 Offline
Member+

Registered: 09 Mar 07
Posts: 115
Loc: Tegal
Quoting: nasigoreng
This week's time magazine cover story features rising Muslim influence in Indonesian society:

Indonesia matters. The battle for its soul is taking place within a wider war in the Islamic world pitting progressive Muslims, who believe their faith can coexist with modernity and liberal Western influences, against fundamentalists, who want the religoin to return to its more austere Arab roots. What happens in Indonesia, could presage the direction other Islamic societies take.
********************

"They preach that Islam and Shari'a are an elixir," says Azymardi Azra, a prominient Muslim scholar and director of the graduate school at Jakarta's State Islamic University.
"The state's social institutions have not fixed problems like drugs, prostitution, gambling and corruption. So people think maybe the mosques can solve things that the government has not."


It was a decent article; i thought it was a bit short, i'm happy they mentioned several important items like the imprisonment of the kindergarden teachers and the violent raids done by groups like FPI. Lots of outstanding quotes that show how uneducated some of these Islamic leaders are.
All in all, it was a well-balanced article and i felt that I learned something about Indonesian perceptions; specifically, rejection of western materialism and democracy for Salafi Islmic doctrines. basically: Indonesians can't get ahead economically so they're trying to get ahead spiritually (for the next life, of course).

any comments on the article?



Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the FPI basically a preman group wielded by the TNI during the succession crisis to forment unrest in urban areas? What's more, they have previously avoided entertainment areas paying out large sums to the army. Their motives seem more political than spiritual.

Re: the last comment, does Islamicization not tend to cycle through Indonesia and strengthen in times of uncertainty and crisis? Fix the economy (I know it seems pie-in-the-sky) and you'll see a corresponding decline in attraction to faith. Remember when you'd be hard pressed to see too many jilbabs back in the glory days of the early nineties?

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