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#43459 - 06 Feb 07 06:50 JAKARTA FLOOD 2007
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
FLOOD CONTROL Shenanigans: A 30-year old stillborn plan goes awry.

The Flood Control project, particularly the East Flood Canal would have saved lives, money and so much human misery, but alas corrupt, rent-seekers have prevented it - and profited from the misery.

The Dutch colonial administration made plans for citywide flood control back in the 1920s and built the West Flood Canal, which hasn't been properly upgraded or dredged since 1924!! In the 1970s, Jakarta decided to go forward with a newly prepared flood plan, using a non-profit Dutch foundation, NEDECO, which helped with a feasibility study and the Master Plan.

The Master Plan for Drainage and Flood Control of Jakarta, which was prepared by the Department of Public Works under the direction of then-Governor Ali Sadikin, was completed in 1973. It concerned DKI Jakarta only and the 11 rivers running through it. The program was to be implemented within ten years and had already been designed by NEDECO. The government announced the plan to the people who owned land in the area and all agreed on the compensation package. Then it all went awry.

Shortly after the announcement of the Master Plan -- which included upgrades and extension of the West Flood Canal, and construction of the East Flood Canal, much of which would be paid for by soft loans and grants from international donors and UN agencies -- The land was designated and appropriated and the landowners had all agreed to terms with the government. In 1978, when construction on the East Canal was beginning, it was discovered that much of the land had been re-sold, NOT TO THE GOVERNMENT as agreed upon by the original owners, but to elite cronies, politicians and high-level bureaucrats. Some of the land that already belonged to the government had even been parceled out and sold as well.

WTF IS GOING ON HERE?!

From 1966-1977, Jakarta had a fairly stable, pragmatic governor named Ali Sadikin. He was considered fair and relatively honest and was known for getting things done in an efficient manner and keeping corruption at bay. But when he left office in 1977, Jakarta quickly became a giant cesspool of kleptocracy. The corrupt, rent-seeking cronies and bureaucrats saw their chance. Get some of the East Flood Canal land and extort the international community to pay them 50 times the amount in compensation.

And the problem still hasn't been solved; construction has been stopped for decades. The corrupt owners have enlisted development companies to build housing complexes and malls on the land designated for the canal, which means the value has skyrocketed. Rumor has it that even the current leader of this fair city - once referred to as Snooty Bozo - owns some of the land, by proxy of course, and is essentially extorting his own administration. The rent-seekers all know that the longer this goes on, and the more human misery that is caused, the higher their "compensation" will be. A great investment no question, if one can still sleep at night.


PhDs in Rent-Seeking, Extortion and Free Loading

-Slum dwellers: Send 'em back to Jawa, no negotiation just ask them if they would prefer the carrot or the stick. They are illegal squatters, and as nice and innocent and desperate as they may well be, they are freeloaders and a general nuisance. I know it's harsh, but it's realism. It's not healthy for them to be living like that, so I say send ‘em back to their families in the village or give them a plot of land in Borneo.

Good Gracious, the local universities should specialize in PhDs in Creative Rent-Seeking, because every native of this island, from lowly slum-dwellers to reptilian thug governors, has perfected rent-seeking, extortion and freeloading down to a friggin' science. And the crazy thing is, instead of being condemned for it, neighbors and relatives call these people "pintar banget" (or "extremely clever").


There have been reports of people being ordered to evacuate certain neighborhoods back last Tuesday and Wednesday (Jan. 30&31), but they defy the orders and stay. Why? The reason they give is they need to protect their meager belongings, but that's the biggest bunch of malarkey ever, the real reason is they know they'll eventually be herded into some mosque or school and given free food, while having a grand ol' time with all their neighbors camping out in a school together and getting fed free food. As they sit around and giggle, they congratulate each other on being "pintar banget"

Then, of course, the youths strike out from the encampment and cruise around to main roads and middle-class residence areas extorting people, with all manner of scams, including the tried-and-true wheelbarrow collusion scam. (get a wheelbarrow ['gerobak'] with other mates, collude with them and commence extorting middle-class people by offering 1-million Rupiah rides to their homes, or out for evacuation. They often exacerbate floods on the road in an area by plugging up drainage gutters, or create a false solution and demand money for passage.

The ministers and politicians then jump on the bandwagon too, announcing that their department has set up 20 command posts ('posko') in flooded areas and will give away free medicine and food to flood refugees. They then put a Rp5-Billion line item in the budget under "flood emergency relief aid" and only actually spend Rp100 million, thus pocketing Rp4.9 Billion. And their neighbors and relatives, exclaim "pintar banget!"


We DO need a Weatherman to know which way the rain flows.

Another thing that is sorely lacking is public awareness as to what is going on, where it's going and when it is going to rain or flood more. This is not rocket science, almost every partially illiterate teenage surfer understands this stuff, simply because they want to know when there will be good waves. Like floods, good surfing waves require certain weather conditions. Storms coming this way or that way are crucial things to know, and especially tide levels. Very few Jakartans, including government meteorological folks and the media, have any clue about what cause and effect the tide level in Jakarta Bay has on flooding. (In fact, the tide reached a high point of 1.09 meters last Thursday, and will hit that peak again on Feb. 16 -- the last time it was that high was: You guessed it January 2002, 1.11 meters and 1.10 meters over a two-week period) If they do, they sure are keeping it a big secret. Why should tides matter? Because the water needs someplace to drain to and if the sea is up 1 meter, the water just backs up into low-lying areas of the city - very simple, yet apparently too hard to digest for most people here.
We also need satellite imagery of low-lying areas, flood prone areas and risk spots broadcast in advance and during such a crisis -- overlaid with a map of escape routes, traffic congestion and high tide times.


_________________________
Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

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#43460 - 06 Feb 07 07:30 Re: JAKARTA FLOOD 2007 [Re: riccardo]
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
There is also a wealth of scientific info and updates on what's actually been implemented at these links:
http://www.indie-indonesie.nl/content/documents/papers-urban%20history/caljouw%20nas%20pratiwo.pdf
http://balwois.mpl.ird.fr/balwois/administration/full_paper/ffp-759.pdf
http://www.nedeco.nl/repository/LWI%20pdf%20files/LWI105.pdf


Attachments
755-floodMap.doc (445 downloads)

_________________________
Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

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#43461 - 06 Feb 07 07:34 Re: JAKARTA FLOOD 2007 [Re: riccardo]
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
If you can't download the map it's in the PDF document in the first link...
_________________________
Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

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#43464 - 06 Feb 07 08:03 Re: JAKARTA FLOOD 2007 [Re: riccardo]
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Ricc, whist I fully agree with you, it is not exclusive to Jakarta.

My home town in the UK still has no full bypass, because the local councillors bought up the land BEFORE the plans were released, and built on it, making the compensation prohibitive.


Exactly the same shit happens in Sydney with every new freeway. Land designated as “freeway zone” is sold off cheap, corrupt local councils allow development applications on it, and up go the apartment blocks, which make completion of the freeways incredibly expensive.

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#43467 - 06 Feb 07 08:15 Re: JAKARTA FLOOD 2007 [Re: riccardo]
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
Holy BEJEEZUS! On another thread in "Free for all" on the flood, some person gives us statistics and mentions helping others and calling some number, presumably to give that organization money!! I nearly spewed my lunch, I was laughing so hard.

Here's how it works if you want to help others right now. A work colleague's family is stuck in a middle-class area of Kelapa Gading and the grandma of the family had a stroke on Sunday morning. The road outside is chest high in water and there is a gang of thugs working in collusion with carts and inflatable boats if anyone wants in or out. They are charging up to Rp5million each trip. It would probably cost over Rp20million to get the whole family out, including the sick grandma. So, other relatives got a little inflatable boat to go in and get grandma out. BUT wait!! The stinking thugs don't allow anybody else to "help" -- same fee or risk a beating. Police, forget it!


Furthermore, most of these IDPs have become IDPs by choice, as I mentioned in the first post on this thread. They have deliberately stayed, defying all the orders to evacuate last week, because they knew it would mean freebies, handouts and pictures on TV while having a nice time camping out with all the neighbors.

So let's cut the naive shite about this crap and say no to being extorted by supposedly do-gooder organizations claiming to "help" by giving us phone numbers and bank account numbers to send money.

BTW, they finally got their grandma out by quietly floating in on a back street at 3am this morning. She is now safely in a hospital and in stable condition. They also went back and got a few other elderly or sick neighbors before the Thugs awoke for their 4am prayer call.
_________________________
Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

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#43470 - 06 Feb 07 08:19 Re: JAKARTA FLOOD 2007 [Re: Polar Bear]
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
Quoting: Polar Bear
Ricc, whist I fully agree with you, it is not exclusive to Jakarta.

My home town in the UK still has no full bypass, because the local councillors bought up the land BEFORE the plans were released, and built on it, making the compensation prohibitive.


Exactly the same shit happens in Sydney with every new freeway. Land designated as “freeway zone” is sold off cheap, corrupt local councils allow development applications on it, and up go the apartment blocks, which make completion of the freeways incredibly expensive.


No question about that PB. It does happen many places, it always seems though, that it happens on a much more devastating scale in Jakarta. Would they let 30 years of flooding and human misery continue in those other places, or just take a 10% cut and get on with the project. It's all about degrees of filth and the willingness to really screw over millions of people with total impunity!
_________________________
Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

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#43471 - 06 Feb 07 08:25 Re: JAKARTA FLOOD 2007 [Re: riccardo]
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Quoting: riccardo
Furthermore, most of these IDPs have become IDPs by choice, as I mentioned in the first post on this thread. They have deliberately stayed, defying all the orders to evacuate last week, because they knew it would mean freebies, handouts and pictures on TV while having a nice time camping out with all the neighbors.



Ricc - if the Australian government told me to evacuate i would tell them to fuck off, on the grounds that they are an incompetent bunch of assholes who could not organise a gang bang in a brothel.

If I DID evacuate I would probably have nowhere to sleep, and get home to find my prize Julio Iglesias CD gone (along with the Rolex/Omega collection, the guns, and everything else).

I mean would YOU trust the assholes who failed to manage this mess to look after you AFTER they fucked it up?

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#43472 - 06 Feb 07 08:31 Re: JAKARTA FLOOD 2007 [Re: Polar Bear]
Piss Salon Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 27 Jun 06
Posts: 4039
Loc: Jakpus
LOL! Headline in the post


"High water level halts evacuation of flood victims"

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place within us love that truly gives, tenderness that truly unites, self-offering that tells the truth and does not deceive, forgiveness that truly receives, loving physical union that welcomes

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#43473 - 06 Feb 07 08:43 Re: JAKARTA FLOOD 2007 [Re: Piss Salon]
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
Pooh Bah

Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
Loc: Centre of the Universe
Quoting: Piss Salon
LOL! Headline in the post


"High water level halts evacuation of flood victims"


give them the benefit of the doubt ... maybe that was the actual story, the fact that evacuations stopped because the rescuers were getting wet ...
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KuKuKaChu: dangerously too sophisticated

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#43474 - 06 Feb 07 08:43 Re: JAKARTA FLOOD 2007 [Re: Polar Bear]
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
I agree PB, I would be very unwilling to move if it seemed to be overreacting. If my house had never had a problem before, you'd be confident that It might not be so bad, but what you may not understand is these people know the score, they get hit every year and their little slum dwellings get totally washed away -- gone forever. It's not a maybe it will happen, it WILL happen. There is nothing keeping them there except the knowledge that if they stay, they'll get freebies. If they heeded the advice to leave, they'd have to pay for the train/bus ticket back to their villages and get nothing out of it.

I fully understand that it makes economic sense for them to do it, it's just a total piss-take on the system, just taking advantage of a situation where they can get freebies by playing the victim. The big problem is that the resources used on them could have been streamlined for the truly needy victims. The number of displaced people to handle might be half of what it is now and thus much more manageable.
_________________________
Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

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#43477 - 06 Feb 07 09:28 Re: JAKARTA FLOOD 2007 [Re: riccardo]
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
LET THE SCAMS BEGIN:
By doing nothing for the last 30 years to prevent flood disasters and allowing the CNN FACTOR to run its course over the last few days, the thugs will now reap benefits. As money starts rolling in from Aussie and US taxpayers, IT WILL end up in the pockets of rent-seeking bureaucrats and the US$10,000-a-month salary for the NGO managers.......

------------------------------------------------------

U.S., Australia express commitments to help flood victims

JAKARTA (JP): Several countries including the U.S. and Australia have expressed their commitments to convey assistance for hundreds of thousands of flood victims, whose houses in Jakarta and its surroundings, have been inundated since last Friday.

The U.S. government will provide US$100,000 of emergency relief assistance for displaced people, according to a press release from the U.S. embassy in Jakarta Monday.

The embassy said that the assistance will be channeled through the International Federation of Red Cross (IFRC) and its local partner -- the Indonesian Red Cross--, CARE, Mercy Corps, and World Vision.

Meanwhile, the Australian embassy in Jakarta also said that his country will also provide 150,000 Australian dollar (US$116,243) to support the Indonesian government to help flood victims.

..........

_________________________
Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

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#43478 - 06 Feb 07 09:38 Re: JAKARTA FLOOD 2007 [Re: riccardo]
Piss Salon Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 27 Jun 06
Posts: 4039
Loc: Jakpus
Though the capital has ground to a halt at least one convention is going ahead. You know I don't make this shit up:

Deep Indonesia 2007
Indonesia's first international diving, adventure travel and water sports exhibition.

And the advertising slogan:

“Deeper than you can imagine.”
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place within us love that truly gives, tenderness that truly unites, self-offering that tells the truth and does not deceive, forgiveness that truly receives, loving physical union that welcomes

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#43496 - 06 Feb 07 10:31 Re: JAKARTA FLOOD 2007 [Re: Piss Salon]
Piss Salon Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 27 Jun 06
Posts: 4039
Loc: Jakpus
I bet he was. Dirty, corrupt, filthy Jakarta Governor.

"I was up till 3:00 a.m. this morning trying to handle the refugees," AP quoted Governor Sutiyoso as telling el-Shinta radio station.
_________________________
place within us love that truly gives, tenderness that truly unites, self-offering that tells the truth and does not deceive, forgiveness that truly receives, loving physical union that welcomes

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#43501 - 06 Feb 07 10:44 Re: JAKARTA FLOOD 2007 [Re: riccardo]
sloopy Offline
Member+

Registered: 14 Feb 06
Posts: 32
Loc: very bad part of town
Holy BEJEEZUS! On another thread in "Free for all" on the flood, some person gives us statistics and mentions helping others and calling some number, presumably to give that organization money!! I nearly spewed my lunch, I was laughing so hard.

Riccardo, I posted that, you even called my name? what is the problem. I know you for long time. And you called "some person" may be I am not worth enough to be called. Believe me, Indonesian Red Cross got many phone calls before I posted it. And we always able to gather fund from community and international Red Cross and Red Crescent movement all the world. But we know that the need in the field always more and more than our resources.. And if you don't want help or want interfere people to ot support Indonesian Red Cross, it will not a problem for me... do if that can make your life happier!

Here's how it works if you want to help others right now. A work colleague's family is stuck in a middle-class area of Kelapa Gading and the grandma of the family had a stroke on Sunday morning. The road outside is chest high in water and there is a gang of thugs working in collusion with carts and inflatable boats if anyone wants in or out. They are charging up to Rp5million each trip. It would probably cost over Rp20million to get the whole family out, including the sick grandma. So, other relatives got a little inflatable boat to go in and get grandma out. BUT wait!! The stinking thugs don't allow anybody else to "help" -- same fee or risk a beating. Police, forget it!

Now, it is not a time for look at any group, religion, ethnic, social status... The disaster hit people with different back ground. If you talk about only one group, I don't know if any body able to help. If you contact Red Cross branch office, may be they can do something... but mostly we will go to the most vurnerable people...

Furthermore, most of these IDPs have become IDPs by choice, as I mentioned in the first post on this thread. They have deliberately stayed, defying all the orders to evacuate last week, because they knew it would mean freebies, handouts and pictures on TV while having a nice time camping out with all the neighbors.

based on what your opinion? cheers up during bad situation is good, otherwise they will get very depressed... that the way people facing life.. do you think they have any choice? what i learnt from life in some matter we cannot choose

So let's cut the naive shite about this crap and say no to being extorted by supposedly do-gooder organizations claiming to "help" by giving us phone numbers and bank account numbers to send money.

sure perhaps I am too naive, and cannot believe that some people can have very narrow minded. gather your people to not support Indonesian Red Cross.. It will not influence my life much... and thats phone number i put not only for giving help, but you could also seeking help. do you ever know about "tracing and mailing service" anyway... may be not necessary to tell you...

BTW, they finally got their grandma out by quietly floating in on a back street at 3am this morning. She is now safely in a hospital and in stable condition. They also went back and got a few other elderly or sick neighbors before the Thugs awoke for their 4am prayer call.

well done! if you can do that by yourself.. dont give your self trouble to asking people do that...

you have an idea about solve flood problem... without giving excuse to some bad people who rules DKI Jakarta.. believe me it is not simple to implement that kind things in Jakarta...

_________________________
friendship double your joy, divides your sorrow...

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#43502 - 06 Feb 07 10:57 Re: JAKARTA FLOOD 2007 [Re: sloopy]
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
Got Beer?
_________________________
Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

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#43505 - 06 Feb 07 11:17 Re: JAKARTA FLOOD 2007 [Re: riccardo]
chewwyUK Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 14 Sep 06
Posts: 2392
Loc: Jakarta
I admire your sentiment that this is a time to help those in need snoop. However I think it is also a time for people to question the role of a government. Democracy is still relatively new to Indonesia and it does frustrate outsiders like myself when we see situations where the government are not helping the people they are there to serve.

Indonesia is NOT a poor nation. There is fantastic wealth in natural resources combined with a work force that if properly educated and trained would be kicking India and Chinas ass. I may be a guest in Indonesia but I still care about it and get frustrated with the general attitude of "it's Indonesia" which translates in to that’s just the way it is here.

We all pay taxes in Indonesia and I for one would like to see the government providing the very basics to their people - Good health care, education, flood protection and emergency relief to people suffering from natural disasters. These basic needs are met in other countries so why not Indonesia?

You are right to care and we should all help in anyway we can. While I don’t agree with everything Riccardo has to say I do wish that every Indonesian had even a small percentage of his anger.

There is a large population here and if everybody got angry I guarantee you the government would shit themselves and start to change. Imagine a lynch mob of 200,000 people turning up at a government official’s house the next time he was caught stealing money from the people of Indonesia! Things must change here .. it is far to good of a country to waste


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Edited by Piss Salon
Edit Reason: taste

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#43514 - 06 Feb 07 11:50 Re: JAKARTA FLOOD 2007 [Re: chewwyUK]
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
A few other expat bloggers have posted some info and criticism on the flood as well, but you are so correct Chewwy, why is it only the expats that are concerned and not the people who were born here? Maybe it's the OrBa indoctrination -- See no evil, speak no evil, hear no evil; my country, right or wrong; Pancasila and don't ever discuss S.A.R.A:

http://jakartass.blogspot.com/
http://bialoglowy.blogspot.com/
http://unspun.wordpress.com/
_________________________
Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

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#43516 - 06 Feb 07 12:10 Re: JAKARTA FLOOD 2007 [Re: riccardo]
Piss Salon Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 27 Jun 06
Posts: 4039
Loc: Jakpus
junkie monkey
_________________________
place within us love that truly gives, tenderness that truly unites, self-offering that tells the truth and does not deceive, forgiveness that truly receives, loving physical union that welcomes

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#43518 - 06 Feb 07 12:52 Re: JAKARTA FLOOD 2007 [Re: chewwyUK]
sloopy Offline
Member+

Registered: 14 Feb 06
Posts: 32
Loc: very bad part of town
cheww.. been there done that.. it is not easy.. I believe some people still doing on that... meanwhile others fed up as me, busy with my own life... and I know some wise foreigner that giving much effort to make indonesia better place to live.. not only giving bad opinion, racist and blaming any group...

ask yourself apart of you making life here.. anything you do to make indonesia better place to live... If so, good enough...!


_________________________
friendship double your joy, divides your sorrow...

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#43519 - 06 Feb 07 13:05 Re: JAKARTA FLOOD 2007 [Re: riccardo]
sloopy Offline
Member+

Registered: 14 Feb 06
Posts: 32
Loc: very bad part of town
A few other expat bloggers have posted some info and criticism on the flood as well, but you are so correct Chewwy, why is it only the expats that are concerned and not the people who were born here? Maybe it's the OrBa indoctrination -- See no evil, speak no evil, hear no evil; my country, right or wrong; Pancasila and don't ever discuss S.A.R.A:

only? excuse me.....?
_________________________
friendship double your joy, divides your sorrow...

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#43524 - 06 Feb 07 13:28 Re: JAKARTA FLOOD 2007 [Re: sloopy]
bintang moller Offline
Member

Registered: 27 Jan 07
Posts: 1
Loc: jakarta, slagelse
Please guys, in this situation we dont need people who only can talk without do any actions. I indeed agree with Snoopy, dont see people just from their skin or economic level. This disaster hit everybody without make any difference.

Lets take lesson learn from this disaster. We are all, and dont care what colour of your skin, and what religion that you believe.

If you start claim that one group is better/ bad than other, it is totally normal in my eyes. Because from this behaviour I understand why we still have war everywhere (and still creating some more) and i m sure we can not stop it because this fire come from our deepest heart that reflects our ego.



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#43527 - 06 Feb 07 13:41 Re: JAKARTA FLOOD 2007 [Re: bintang moller]
Darling Offline
Member

Registered: 06 Feb 07
Posts: 28
Loc: Bandung
Quoting: bintang moller
Please guys, in this situation we dont need people who only can talk without do any actions. I indeed agree with Snoopy, dont see people just from their skin or economic level. This disaster hit everybody without make any difference.

Lets take lesson learn from this disaster. We are all, and dont care what colour of your skin, and what religion that you believe.

If you start claim that one group is better/ bad than other, it is totally normal in my eyes. Because from this behaviour I understand why we still have war everywhere (and still creating some more) and i m sure we can not stop it because this fire come from our deepest heart that reflects our ego.



Ameen my friend. Who give a fuck about what you think now. Its what you do that matters. And one thing for sure: WE DONT NEED YOU TO ACTUALLY TELL US WHAT YOU WILL DO OR HAVE DONE, UNLESS, OF COURSE YOU FEEL THE NEED OF A COMMUNAL ACTION, WHICH REQUIRE THE OTHERS TO PITCH IN. Those that really do it from their heart, NEVER MENTION it. Think of thousands of dollars worth of checks being dropped into the Salvation Army's Christmas bucket every year.
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Bules are Bastards

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#43528 - 06 Feb 07 13:45 Re: JAKARTA FLOOD 2007 [Re: Darling]
Capt. Mainwaring Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 16 Aug 06
Posts: 3225
Loc: here
Get used to it - you will either hear "guests" slagging the place off , or telling you how much they do for it - never let it be said that bules hide their lights under a bushel .

Those that do something , no matter how big or small won't go about telling you .

Gus Dur ?
_________________________
I also made a vegetarian version,with tempe and tofu chunks for myself and others.Get over it.
Kosong.Wolo.Setunggal.Setunggal.Setunggal.Kosong.Pitu.Setunggal.Kosong.Wolo=Tempik

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#43529 - 06 Feb 07 13:52 Re: JAKARTA FLOOD 2007 [Re: Capt. Mainwaring]
Darling Offline
Member

Registered: 06 Feb 07
Posts: 28
Loc: Bandung
Hmm.. you are a bule, I take it?

And what is it about Gus Dur that made you feel upset about me thinking of this guy as funny?
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Bules are Bastards

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#43530 - 06 Feb 07 13:53 Re: JAKARTA FLOOD 2007 [Re: Darling]
Darling Offline
Member

Registered: 06 Feb 07
Posts: 28
Loc: Bandung
Btw, I really think we shouldnt talk about this thing here, not exactly the right topic to be frown Sorry to ruin the thread, guys.
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Bules are Bastards

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