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#37961 - 07 Dec 06 05:02 ANT/Indonesia mulls expanding ban on polygamy
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
Pooh Bah

Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
Loc: Centre of the Universe
Indonesia mulls expanding ban on polygamy

Jakarta (Antara News) - Indonesia is considering extending a ban on civil servants practising polygamy to cover all officials working for the state, including legislators and soldiers, a minister said Tuesday.

"The president has great concern for women and he wants tranquility in society," Minister for Women's Empowerment Mutia Hatta told journalists at the presidential palace after meeting with President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono.

Hatta said Yudhoyono had issued instructions to study extending the law to cover all those working for the state.

Current government regulations ban polygamy among civil servants but do not cover lawmakers, political appointees such as cabinet ministers, governors and heads of districts or soldiers and police, she was quoted by AFP as saying.

Cabinet secretary Sudi Silalahi said polygamy was only allowed among the general public if the wife could no longer perform her duties, was an invalid, suffered from an incurable disease or was infertile.

Approval to take another wife also had to be obtained from a religious court and from the first wife.

The move to amend the law was prompted by a controversy over polygamy after a popular Muslim preacher was recently found to have taken a second wife in secret.

Hatta said revision of the law would be started as soon as possible but gave no timeframe.

The director general for Islamic guidance at the ministry for religious affairs, Nazzarudin Umar, said Islam allowed polygamy but only if the man could be "just and fair" towards all his wives.

"Can one be really just? Men would say yes, but God in the holy Koran says it is impossible for men to be just," Umar said, calling on Muslims not to use religion as a means to legitimise their wishes to have more than one spouse.

Islam permits up to four wives but some mostly Muslim nations such as Tunisia have banned polygamy.

More than 90 percent of Indonesia's population is Muslim but most follow a moderate version of the faith. (*)
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#37962 - 07 Dec 06 05:06 Re: ANT/Indonesia mulls expanding ban on polygamy [Re: KuKuKaChu]
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
Pooh Bah

Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
Loc: Centre of the Universe
this could very well blow up in SBY's face. messing with the marriage law No. 1/1974 is a dangerous act, no matter what the justification. it's the sort of thing that president's get assassinated for ... but i guess SBY's made his calculation, and figures the islamists are now diminished as a political force. that is in fact the case, however, the fanatics remain, and they won't take kindly to any messing with Law No. 1/1974.
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#38110 - 08 Dec 06 22:49 Re: ANT/Indonesia mulls expanding ban on polygamy [Re: KuKuKaChu]
xsbir Offline
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Registered: 29 Oct 06
Posts: 75
Loc: The Big Durian
What I don't understand is why any man in his right mind would want more than one wife. It seems like life would be a bit too complicated for my liking.

Or could it be something like having more than one child? Do they kind of look after each other?

Just curious.
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#38116 - 09 Dec 06 00:03 Re: ANT/Indonesia mulls expanding ban on polygamy [Re: xsbir]
Orang Kanada Offline
Member*

Registered: 30 Sep 06
Posts: 621
Loc: Jakarta
Divorces are too expensive, better keep it and marry another one, it's cheaper! That's the only explanation to me!!!
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#38118 - 09 Dec 06 00:26 Re: ANT/Indonesia mulls expanding ban on polygamy [Re: Orang Kanada]
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
even better:

strangle the old one. Have some fun!!

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#38133 - 09 Dec 06 06:05 Re: ANT/Indonesia mulls expanding ban on polygamy [Re: xsbir]
Macan Tutul Offline
Pujangga Muda

Registered: 02 Dec 05
Posts: 1502
Loc: Jungle and cage ;)
Quoting: xsbir
What I don't understand is why any man in his right mind would want more than one wife. It seems like life would be a bit too complicated for my liking.

Or could it be something like having more than one child? Do they kind of look after each other?

Just curious.


I agree
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#38134 - 09 Dec 06 06:09 Re: ANT/Indonesia mulls expanding ban on polygamy [Re: Macan Tutul]
Macan Tutul Offline
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Registered: 02 Dec 05
Posts: 1502
Loc: Jungle and cage ;)
And if I can add a little bit :

Why women can't do the same? Polyandry??? If we woman do that, it looks like a sinner.... why we don't have same right????
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" Don't be shy with yourself, you have lots of talent without you notice....that's human, just be who you are."

(Memoirs of 3/3/2007)

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#38164 - 09 Dec 06 23:24 Re: ANT/Indonesia mulls expanding ban on polygamy [Re: Macan Tutul]
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
Pooh Bah

Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
Loc: Centre of the Universe
Quoting: Macan Tutul
And if I can add a little bit :

Why women can't do the same? Polyandry??? If we woman do that, it looks like a sinner.... why we don't have same right????

you as a woman do not have this "right" because Al-Quran did not give it to you. as i know you are a good muslim, you will understand this.

Al-Quran on polygamy:
Marry women who seem good to you,
two, three, or four in number;
However, if you fear
That you may not be able to act
equitably towards all,
Then marry only one.

as a good muslim, i know you will also recall that Allah has determined that "one male is the equivalent of two females". this is the natural order. this is the way Allah meant life to be. this is fundamental to the islamic worldview, and if you don't agree, then maybe you should consider cancelling your membership.

interestingly, Al-Quran reccomends that second and subsequent marriages be with "widows" (janda), by which is meant divorcees as well. AA Gym took as his second wife a janda with three children.


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#38166 - 09 Dec 06 23:59 Re: ANT/Indonesia mulls expanding ban on polygamy [Re: KuKuKaChu]
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
PB on shagging:

Shag women who seem sexy to you,
two, three, or four in number;
However, if you fear
That you may not be able to shag
equitably towards all,
Then shag only one.

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#38168 - 10 Dec 06 00:06 Re: ANT/Indonesia mulls expanding ban on polygamy [Re: KuKuKaChu]
xsbir Offline
Member+

Registered: 29 Oct 06
Posts: 75
Loc: The Big Durian
Quoting: KuKuKaChu



as a good muslim, i know you will also recall that Allah has determined that "one male is the equivalent of two females". this is the natural order. this is the way Allah meant life to be. this is fundamental to the islamic worldview, and if you don't agree, then maybe you should consider cancelling your membership.

interestingly, Al-Quran reccomends that second and subsequent marriages be with "widows" (janda), by which is meant divorcees as well. AA Gym took as his second wife a janda with three children.




I'm not Muslim, and I'm not here to judge or condemn, but rather to learn. Does the above mean that marrying second, third and fourth wives are essentially acts of benevolence?

Why is this now such a controversy in Indonesia? Aside from the Gym case, are people here finally waking up to the fact that polygamy is inequitable to women?
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#38236 - 12 Dec 06 00:18 Re: ANT/Indonesia mulls expanding ban on polygamy [Re: KuKuKaChu]
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
Quoting: KuKuKaChu

as a good muslim, i know you will also recall that Allah has determined that "one male is the equivalent of two females". this is the natural order. this is the way Allah meant life to be. this is fundamental to the islamic worldview, and if you don't agree, then maybe you should consider cancelling your membership.


AND according to Borat, the hierarchy is:
God,
man,
horse,
dog,
rat,
woman
and then a little "krutzouli" (cockroach)
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#38245 - 12 Dec 06 01:19 Re: ANT/Indonesia mulls expanding ban on polygamy [Re: KuKuKaChu]
xsbir Offline
Member+

Registered: 29 Oct 06
Posts: 75
Loc: The Big Durian
Quoting: KuKuKaChu


as a good muslim, i know you will also recall that Allah has determined that "one male is the equivalent of two females". this is the natural order. this is the way Allah meant life to be. this is fundamental to the islamic worldview,



I do hope you are joking. This sounds like something out of the 19th century.

If this is really the Islamic worldview today in the 21st century, is it not diametrically opposed to Western notions of equality between the sexes? All religions are probably to some extent sexist, but I didn't really think Islam was that backwards.

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#38246 - 12 Dec 06 01:28 Re: ANT/Indonesia mulls expanding ban on polygamy [Re: xsbir]
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
xsbir, you have a LOT to learn if you "didn't really think Islam was that backward."

Goodness gracious sakes!
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Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

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#38247 - 12 Dec 06 01:36 Re: ANT/Indonesia mulls expanding ban on polygamy [Re: riccardo]
xsbir Offline
Member+

Registered: 29 Oct 06
Posts: 75
Loc: The Big Durian
Okay, maybe I can understand that Islam contains antiquated teachings, but I didn't really think that otherwise modern people, like Kuku, seem to subscribe to them, like this notion that "one male is the equivalent of two females" and argue for polygamy!
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#38248 - 12 Dec 06 01:47 Re: ANT/Indonesia mulls expanding ban on polygamy [Re: xsbir]
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
Pooh Bah

Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
Loc: Centre of the Universe
Quoting: xsbir
Quoting: KuKuKaChu


as a good muslim, i know you will also recall that Allah has determined that "one male is the equivalent of two females". this is the natural order. this is the way Allah meant life to be. this is fundamental to the islamic worldview,



I do hope you are joking. This sounds like something out of the 19th century.

If this is really the Islamic worldview today in the 21st century, is it not diametrically opposed to Western notions of equality between the sexes? All religions are probably to some extent sexist, but I didn't really think Islam was that backwards.


no, i'm not joking. what i describe is islam as it is. nothing more, nothing less. religions like islam do not "progress"; they are fixed in time, with their texts being the final and indisputable word of god. thus, to the modern liberal westerner, islam is most certainly "backward".

as for polygamy, i don't really see this as a wholly religious issue, but more of a private lifestyle matter.
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#38249 - 12 Dec 06 01:49 Re: ANT/Indonesia mulls expanding ban on polygamy [Re: xsbir]
Roy's Hair Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 08 Nov 06
Posts: 3974
Loc: jakarta
Metro Mad next Sunday chaps. I'll be nipping all this medieval polygamy nonsense in the bud.
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#38250 - 12 Dec 06 01:56 Re: ANT/Indonesia mulls expanding ban on polygamy [Re: KuKuKaChu]
Roy's Hair Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 08 Nov 06
Posts: 3974
Loc: jakarta
Quoting: KuKuKaChu
Quoting: xsbir
Quoting: KuKuKaChu


as a good muslim, i know you will also recall that Allah has determined that "one male is the equivalent of two females". this is the natural order. this is the way Allah meant life to be. this is fundamental to the islamic worldview,



I do hope you are joking. This sounds like something out of the 19th century.

If this is really the Islamic worldview today in the 21st century, is it not diametrically opposed to Western notions of equality between the sexes? All religions are probably to some extent sexist, but I didn't really think Islam was that backwards.


no, i'm not joking. what i describe is islam as it is. nothing more, nothing less. religions like islam do not "progress"; they are fixed in time, with their texts being the final and indisputable word of god. thus, to the modern liberal westerner, islam is most certainly "backward".

as for polygamy, i don't really see this as a wholly religious issue, but more of a private lifestyle matter.
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Chinese like more traditional patterns on their ring.

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#38251 - 12 Dec 06 02:03 Re: ANT/Indonesia mulls expanding ban on polygamy [Re: Roy's Hair]
Roy's Hair Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 08 Nov 06
Posts: 3974
Loc: jakarta
Not a private matter me thinks but deeply political. You think Osama's wives or numerous Saudi women are exercising free choice in this matter? Luckily most Indo chicks are sassy enough not to stand for this guff.I bet AA Gym has sex with his girly turban on too. Twat.
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#38282 - 12 Dec 06 05:50 Re: ANT/Indonesia mulls expanding ban on polygamy [Re: Roy's Hair]
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
We can only cure this with education.

we should all take it upon ourselves to shag one Mulsim girl each week, to free her from the religious bonds that tie her.

Come on guys, I cant do this all on my own. I need some help!!!

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#38335 - 12 Dec 06 13:57 Re: ANT/Indonesia mulls expanding ban on polygamy [Re: Polar Bear]
Roy's Hair Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 08 Nov 06
Posts: 3974
Loc: jakarta
Feel the chains of male opression lift from you my dear. Now get your knickers off
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#38350 - 12 Dec 06 21:33 Re: ANT/Indonesia mulls expanding ban on polygamy [Re: Roy's Hair]
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Quoting: Roy's hair
Feel the chains of male opression lift from you my dear. Now get your knickers off


you mean Muslim girls wear knickers?

shit - i hoped otherwise....

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#38352 - 12 Dec 06 23:00 Re: ANT/Indonesia mulls expanding ban on polygamy [Re: KuKuKaChu]
xsbir Offline
Member+

Registered: 29 Oct 06
Posts: 75
Loc: The Big Durian
Quoting: KuKuKaChu
Quoting: xsbir
Quoting: KuKuKaChu


as a good muslim, i know you will also recall that Allah has determined that "one male is the equivalent of two females". this is the natural order. this is the way Allah meant life to be. this is fundamental to the islamic worldview,



I do hope you are joking. This sounds like something out of the 19th century.

If this is really the Islamic worldview today in the 21st century, is it not diametrically opposed to Western notions of equality between the sexes? All religions are probably to some extent sexist, but I didn't really think Islam was that backwards.


no, i'm not joking. what i describe is islam as it is. nothing more, nothing less. religions like islam do not "progress"; they are fixed in time, with their texts being the final and indisputable word of god. thus, to the modern liberal westerner, islam is most certainly "backward".

as for polygamy, i don't really see this as a wholly religious issue, but more of a private lifestyle matter.


Obviously there are liberal Muslims, who have progressed beyond what was transcribed as the word of Allah by nomads in a desert 1400 years ago, otherwise this polygamy issue would not be the controversy it is in Indonesia today. The practice is also banned in a number of Muslim countries. Why is this, if not for liberal Muslims who do not subscribe to the 2=1 nonsense you quote?
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#38353 - 12 Dec 06 23:19 Re: ANT/Indonesia mulls expanding ban on polygamy [Re: xsbir]
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
Pooh Bah

Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
Loc: Centre of the Universe
Quoting: xsbir
Obviously there are liberal Muslims, who have progressed beyond what was transcribed as the word of Allah by nomads in a desert 1400 years ago, otherwise this polygamy issue would not be the controversy it is in Indonesia today. The practice is also banned in a number of Muslim countries. Why is this, if not for liberal Muslims who do not subscribe to the 2=1 nonsense you quote?

Probably because they are not "good" muslims ...

Al-Quran is explicit about woman's position and status. no ambiguity whatsoever. the 2 woman == 1 man reference is not Hadith (islamic law/tradition), but actually part of Al-Quran.

islam is what it is. there is, as far as i know, no "revised" modern version of islam's holiest texts, as much as many westerners would like to imagine.

appending the tag "moderate" to a muslim does not in any way change the fundamentals of the religion.
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#38356 - 12 Dec 06 23:47 Re: ANT/Indonesia mulls expanding ban on polygamy [Re: KuKuKaChu]
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
So are you a “good Muslim” if your interpretation of a book coincides with that of someone else?


Life is about interpretation and understanding:

If I masturbate, am I killing the pups that MT and I would have if we made love?

If I turn off a life support system 15 minutes before someone dies of natural causes, is that murder? If by not switching it off and freeing up a hospital bed, someone else who needs that bed dies – is that murder?

If I look at a photograph of my neighbours wife – am I “coverting her”? What if she is a nude model and she is in Penthouse? (What if she is my sister or mother???)


Religion includes a set of social rules to ensure harmony within a society. Don’t steal, don’t murder, don’t do this, always do that….. The rules in the Koran were set don’t for tribal Arabs, and have no place in modern society.

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#38357 - 12 Dec 06 23:47 Re: ANT/Indonesia mulls expanding ban on polygamy [Re: KuKuKaChu]
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
So are you a “good Muslim” if your interpretation of a book coincides with that of someone else?


Life is about interpretation and understanding:

If I masturbate, am I killing the pups that MT and I would have if we made love?

If I turn off a life support system 15 minutes before someone dies of natural causes, is that murder? If by not switching it off and freeing up a hospital bed, someone else who needs that bed dies – is that murder?

If I look at a photograph of my neighbours wife – am I “coverting her”? What if she is a nude model and she is in Penthouse? (What if she is my sister or mother???)


Religion includes a set of social rules to ensure harmony within a society. Don’t steal, don’t murder, don’t do this, always do that….. The rules in the Koran were set don’t for tribal Arabs, and have no place in modern society.

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