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#37861 - 06 Dec 06 01:38 Genocide in Papua
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
Here's an interesting article I first saw an excerpt from on Pat's IM site, but here is the whole article.... I honestly had no idea that Brits even knew or cared about this genocide. A good, detailed book to read on this subject is "Indonesia's Secret War" by Robin Osborne.

------------------------------------------------------------

A forgotten cause

December 1 marked the Independence Day for West Papua. But, since 1963, it has been occupied by Indonesia - to the eternal shame of the UN.

By Peter Tatchell


November 30, 2006 04:45 PM

In one of the most shameful decisions in its history, the United Nations in 1969 sanctioned the Indonesian annexation of West Papua, the western half of New Guinea, against the wishes of 80% of the indigenous people who wanted independence.

Nearly four decades later, the West Papuans are still suffering under the yoke of Indonesian imperialism. Despite the end of decades of military-backed dictatorship in Jakarta, the supposedly democratic government of Indonesia continues the same old policy of ethnic persecution.

Unlike the Indonesians, who are Asian, West Papuans are black Melanesians, like the people of Papua New Guinea and Fiji. Indonesia is a racist state. Its racism against West Papuans makes the vile (extreme right-wing British National Party) BNP look moderate and respectable.

Jakarta is hell-bent on destroying the West Papuans, culturally and, if necessary, physically. Over 100,000 indigenous people have been killed (one-tenth of the entire population at the time of annexation).


In 1977, while I was trekking in the highlands of Papua New Guinea, word spread of the presence of a white man wandering in the mountains. Through some villagers I befriended, a note was delivered to me in the middle of the night. It read: "Dear Peter Tatchell, Please help us. We are refugees from the killings in West Papua." I was instructed to rendezvous at a distant church. On my arrival, I interviewed massacre survivors. They had witnessed Indonesian soldiers burning whole villages and executing all the menfolk. Others told me of family members being locked in metal crates and being dumped in rivers to drown.

These killings are fuelled and legitimated by an ethos of Indonesian supremacism. West Papuans are routinely denounced as "savages" and "barbarians". Their culture and beliefs are ridiculed and despised.

Indonesia's conquest of West Papua is based on a two-pronged strategy: violent suppression and colonisation. Jakarta has given financial incentives to encourage hundreds of thousands of migrants from Java, with the deliberate aim of making West Papuans a minority in their own land. The capital, which the Indonesians call Jayapura, used to be almost 100% black Melanesian. Now, it is populated mostly by Indonesian settlers: a classic colonial settler state, similar in some ways to Ulster, Rhodesia and Israel.

To further erode West Papuan identity and culture, Islam is being vigorously promoted in a bid to overturn the dominance of Christian and animist beliefs among the West Papuans. The pressure to covert to Islam is immense.

The Indonesian occupation also works in more subtle, sinister ways. Tens of thousands of tribal peoples have been forced down from the highlands into coastal settlements, so that the Indonesians can police them more easily. These "resettled" people are then subjected to Jakarta's secret weapon of extermination: malaria-carrying mosquitoes. Highlanders have no resistance to malaria, which is endemic in the lowlands. They die in large numbers, which is a covert way for Jakarta to reduce the West Papuan population, without having to shoot people and stand directly accused of human rights abuses.

The Indonesian imperialists are aided by their western counterparts. For years, the US and the UK have sold Jakarta many of the weapons it uses to enforce its bloody occupation. Western multinationals are heavily involved, too. West Papua is rich in natural resources: oil, copper, nickel and timber. British corporations like Rio Tinto and BP have West Papuan blood on their hands.

This Friday, December 1, is West Papuan independence day, when the people of West Papua celebrate their aspiration for self-determination and freedom from Indonesian domination. In London, there will be a protest outside the Indonesian Embassy. It will be addressed by West Papuan independence leader, Benny Wenda. He told me:

"December 1 is a day written in every West Papuan's heart. It's the day in 1961 when the Dutch (the former colonial power) gave us our flag, national anthem and parliament, and promised us independence in 1970. Two years later the Indonesians invaded and 43 years of occupation and killing began for my people. We call 1st December our Independence Day because we have never given up our hope of freedom."

The London protest will raise the West Papuan flag - the Morning Star. The display of this flag is banned by the Indonesians as an act of "rebellion against the state". Our flag-raising will be in solidarity with Filep Karma and Yusak Pakage, two West Papuans who were jailed by the Indonesians for 15 and 10 years respectively. Their crime? They flew the Morning Star flag on independence day 2004.

Sadly, the anti-imperialist left will not be joining us. They don't support the West Papuan freedom struggle. The Indonesian killers are the wrong race, the wrong nationality and the wrong religion. In other words, they are not white Christian American killers.

This strikes me as a tad hypocritical. If any western nation was massacring 10% of a country's people, imposing on them an alien religion and swamping them with colonial settlers, the left would protest non-stop. The left's silence and inaction with regard to the killing fields of West Papua indicates that a once great humanitarian movement has lost its moral and political bearings.

What happened to the socialist values of universal human rights and international solidarity? And what happened to the left's once clear commitment to the right of nations to self-determination?

-----------------------
There are dozens of reader comments on the Guardian site as well.
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/peter_tatchell/2006/11/genocide_in_west_papua.html
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Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

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#37865 - 06 Dec 06 02:06 Re: Genocide in Papua [Re: riccardo]
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
Indeed, the Western liberal left has lost its moral compass. They have so much blind rage for Bush and the NeoCons that they get into bed with the likes of Chavez, Ahmadinejad, HisBollocks, Hamas for the sole reason of opposing the NeoCons. They've lost the plot and don't care anymore about anything except opposing Jews and Americans.

Sure, lots of stuff that the Jews and Americans do needs to be opposed, but not to the point that one becomes blinded by all other oppression, terrorism and genocide like the case of Papua.
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Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

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#37866 - 06 Dec 06 02:16 Re: Genocide in Papua [Re: riccardo]
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
I could write a controversial piece here, but I will simply say this:

The catholic left wanted independence for east Timor. It has proved to be total disaster, and the situation continues to slide into oblivion. Fractional wars, gang violence, tribal skirmishes, all are ripping the fledgling country apart. Australia is now playing policeman. It has simply replaced Indonesia. Within 5 years Australian troops and police will be as hated as the Indonesians were.

Does any here seriously think Papua is ready for independence? Not financially, but socially….

If the Indonesians move out, the fighting will start, and in will go Australia……

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#37867 - 06 Dec 06 02:27 Re: Genocide in Papua [Re: Polar Bear]
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Peter Tatchell, incidentally is a left wing homosexual Australian, still hiding from conscription in London, where he is neither wanted nor needed…

Sadly his left wing openness is in decline as he gets older and discovers the catch 22 of allowing free speech means not only allowing him to abuse others, but others to also abuse him.

Having supported the ANU and the disbandment of Rhodesia, he later tired to arrest Mugawbe when his discovered his wonderful new “free” leader hated gays and had banned homosexuals.

Having supported such radical ideas as the lowering the age of consent for gay sex t 14, his suddenly discovered that not all acceptance of radical ideas was a good thing. He now fights against Islan because of its dislike of homosexuality.

In short he is a weak minded idiot who doesn’t think before he protests……

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#37868 - 06 Dec 06 02:31 Re: Genocide in Papua [Re: Polar Bear]
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
Pooh Bah

Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
Loc: Centre of the Universe
Quoting: Polar Bear
I could write a controversial piece here, but I will simply say this:

The catholic left wanted independence for east Timor. It has proved to be total disaster, and the situation continues to slide into oblivion.

wasn't just the catholic left; it was the entire left, and a good number of conservatives and rightwingers too.

i was drummed out of the WA labor party's foreign relations policy committee many years ago, along with a colleague from Murdoch University, for basically advocating a "realist" approach to east timor.

i now have the dubious "pleasure" of saying: "i told you so."

australia is now surrounded by non-viable states that teeter from one crisis to another, and are a perpetual burden on the australian taxpayer. and for very little in return, much less thanks.

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KuKuKaChu: dangerously too sophisticated

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#37869 - 06 Dec 06 02:37 Re: Genocide in Papua [Re: riccardo]
Orang Kanada Offline
Member*

Registered: 30 Sep 06
Posts: 621
Loc: Jakarta
I have no words... except thanks to you Rick to bring this to my attention and light up my lantern... I knew something was going on in there without knowing exactly what... I think it's not the kind of subject Indonesians abort easely with a new comer, and I wonder if the common Indonesian know the whole story from the bottom on up anyway...
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#37870 - 06 Dec 06 02:39 Re: Genocide in Papua [Re: Polar Bear]
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
PB, East Timor is not nearly as screwed or beyond repair as the media makes out at present. And you may be entirely correct about Papua becoming a tribal quagmire, but is it our place to decide what is best for them?? If they are crying for freedom and are being systematically slaughtered, they deserve at least a shot at making it work.


As Desmond Tutu once said, quoting Mexican Revolutionary Emiliano Zapata: "I'd rather die on my feet than live my life on my knees."

_________________________
Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

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#37871 - 06 Dec 06 02:40 Re: Genocide in Papua [Re: KuKuKaChu]
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
Pooh Bah

Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
Loc: Centre of the Universe
i might add this: it *never* pays to be right in retrospect. if you want to advance in life, always go along with prevailing conventional wisdom, even when you know it's damn wrong.
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KuKuKaChu: dangerously too sophisticated

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#37872 - 06 Dec 06 02:49 Re: Genocide in Papua [Re: riccardo]
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
Pooh Bah

Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
Loc: Centre of the Universe
Quoting: riccardo
As Desmond Tutu once said, quoting Mexican Revolutionary Emiliano Zapata: "I'd rather die on my feet than live my life on my knees."

that's all very nice, if they don't need perpetual handouts from other countries. East Timorese are "free", and they remain on their knees with begging bowls outstretched.

ET will probably never be viable, except if by some magic it finds huge deposits of oil or gold ...
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KuKuKaChu: dangerously too sophisticated

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#37873 - 06 Dec 06 02:54 Re: Genocide in Papua [Re: Orang Kanada]
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
Quoting: Orang Kanada
I think it's not the kind of subject Indonesians abort easely with a new comer, and I wonder if the common Indonesian know the whole story from the bottom on up anyway...


The answer to that question is a resounding NO. Most Indonesians DO NOT know what's going on there, and the few that do support it blindly because:
--"..we must support the integrity of NKRI!!..."

--"..No matter how bad, this is my country,
The Red of my blood, The White of my bones"

--"Tanah Air forever, from Sabang to Merauke"

etc.. add your own NKRI jingoistic slogans.
_________________________
Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

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#37874 - 06 Dec 06 03:05 Re: Genocide in Papua [Re: riccardo]
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
The white middle-class western Liberals are playing into the hands of all these oppressors and muzzie terrorists around the world. So much so, that I would not be surprised to find out in a few years if the ORBA folks, Osama, Iran, the Muzzie Brotherhood et, al are/will be financially backing NEOCON candidates in the US and elsewhere.

It's the perfect strategy, keep the NEOCONS in power, and it keeps the vociferous left-wingers (and journos) quiet on muzzie terror and Papuan genocide.
_________________________
Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

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#37875 - 06 Dec 06 03:07 Re: Genocide in Papua [Re: riccardo]
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
How's that for some irony.. Osama and IRAN contributing to the Elect Dick Cheney Fund in 2008!
_________________________
Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

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#37876 - 06 Dec 06 03:11 Re: Genocide in Papua [Re: riccardo]
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Quoting: riccardo
PB, East Timor is not nearly as screwed or beyond repair as the media makes out at present. And you may be entirely correct about Papua becoming a tribal quagmire, but is it our place to decide what is best for them?? If they are crying for freedom and are being systematically slaughtered, they deserve at least a shot at making it work.


As Desmond Tutu once said, quoting Mexican Revolutionary Emiliano Zapata: "I'd rather die on my feet than live my life on my knees."



OH fuck!

OK, let me tell you what happens. Civil war breaks out. Gang fights gang. Tribe fights tribe. Region fights region. People previously only united in a hatred of Indonesia now have nothing and no one to blame for their problems. They fight each other.

The UN steps in. Billions of dollars are poured in. The women become hookers, the men drug dealers and pimps. The national economy become addicted to the UN aid programs. UN soldiers are the main customers for every shop, dealer and girl.

Million of people look on the internet, and like picking next years holiday, jab a finger at Australia. They turn up a week later as “Refugees fleeing civil unrest”

Well fuck it Ricc. All my fucking life my taxes and my efforts have gone to keep pisspot countries like this alive. And for nothing. India demanded independence. 40 years later the UK STILL gave India 500 million pounds a year in aid. And the cities of England were full of fucking Indians who said “we wanted independence for India, but we don’t want to live there after independence”….

Most of Africa, having demanded independence from the white man, is now a basket case.

The piper now calls the tune, and the tune is this. WE will decide when YOU are ready for independence. No amount of foot stamping and crying is going to speed it up!

Its like a 6 year old child telling his mother he is going to run away…..



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#37877 - 06 Dec 06 03:37 Re: Genocide in Papua [Re: Polar Bear]
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
and I quote:


East Timor Civil Unrest
Australia has provided $8 million to meet the urgent needs of an estimated 150,000 people who have fled their homes following the outbreak of violence in East Timor.

Australia, through its international aid agency, AusAID has committed $7.63 million to support the work of the United Nations World Food Programme, UNICEF, UNDP, ILO, CARE Australia, the Australian Red Cross, Oxfam, World Vision, Plan International, CARITAS and AUSTCARE.


This support is ensuring crucial water and food supplies are distributed to those who have been forced to flee their homes in around Dili. It is also supporting work on reducing tensions through improved communications via radios and newspaper in the IDP camps, work on peace building and reconciliation programs and a labour-intensive work scheme.

Australia has also contributed $250,000 to the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) which is managing the situation on the ground.

And $120,000 has been provided towards more urgently needed medical supplies for Dili Hospital. AusAID previously sent blood and medical equipment to the hospital while the Australian Defence Force delivered AusAID's supplies of water containers, tarpaulins, blankets, tents and water purification tablets.


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#37878 - 06 Dec 06 03:44 Re: Genocide in Papua [Re: Polar Bear]
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Life in Dili, in the utopia of independence:

On the night of 31 May, gangs in the capital Dili burned down a market and several houses in arson attacks.[44]

On 2 June, a large crowd of about 1000 people who had waited in vain for several hours for food handouts raided a government warehouse in Dili, taking computer equipment, furniture and other supplies in order to trade them for food.[45] Australian soldiers present at the warehouse were unable to prevent the looting due to a lack of police powers, and although they summoned Portuguese police, the warehouse was practically empty.[46] On the same day a crowd of 500 to 600 people protested outside Government House again calling for the resignation of Prime Minister Alkatiri. A group of East Timorese police who arrived to confront the demonstration were stopped and searched by Australian troops, who confiscated their only weapons, several cans of pepper spray, as part of a policy of removing all weapons from the streets.[46]

Meanwhile, also on 2 June, the commander of the Australian forces Brigadier Slater met with rebel leader Major Reinhado, at his base in Aileu above Dili. Reinhado reiterated his calls for Prime Minister Alkatiri to resign, but Alkatiri rejected the calls, instead saying that all "irregular forces" ought to hand in their weapons.[47] In interviews, Slater said that he did not ask Reinhado to surrender or participate in negotiations because the situation was not ready for discussions, as not all groups were ready to participate. Slater said that some of the violence seemed coordinated, and that he had been cooperating with the military, the police, the government, and Reinhado in an attempt to find those planning the violence.[48]

On the night of 2 June and 3 June, looting and gang violence destroyed another dozen houses in Dili, and forced the temporary closure of the main road between Dili and the airport to the west of the city, where the international forces were based, although Australian and Malaysian forces quickly secured the road.[48]

Over the next few days, violence continued to occur in the suburb of Comoro, the area to the west of the city centre around the road to the airport (also known as Comoro Airfield) where many groups from both the east and the west of the country lived nearby. On 5 June, rival gangs, with over a hundred members each, clashed in the streets armed with spears, machetes and slingshots, before being separated by Australian troops.[49] However at the same time in the centre of Dili, the unrest had all but ended, with commercial areas re-opening and some of the damaged buildings and shops being repaired.[49]


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#37882 - 06 Dec 06 03:50 Re: Genocide in Papua [Re: Polar Bear]
Orang Kanada Offline
Member*

Registered: 30 Sep 06
Posts: 621
Loc: Jakarta
well... You know guys, I have almost no knowledge about international politic and history. I'm no sociologist, politician or military strategist, I'm just an artist. And probably because of that, I'm saying that we probably miss the point here, genocide is people dying. Where's the humanity?

A lot of countries who gain their independance turn into vilonce, when it's not from the inside it's with their neighbors... just take the genocide in Rowanda for example. Maybe it's a "basket case", but who's fault it is? Those 200 000 people didn't die from arrows and rocks, but from bullets. Maybe if they didn't had to "gain" their independance from white people, the actual situation would be different. But that, I don't know...

Why the British went to India in the first place? And more important, why are they still giving money after 50 years? I suppose there's something in there they want... Or... what else? They're morons who like invading a country for the fun of it and then keep giving money because they don't know what to do with it? Once again, I don't get it.

Why Australia police their neighbors? Because of their good concience or because they have something to gain? What it's in Papoua? God damn petroleum again? Why Indonesia had to invade it from the start? And now why Australia have to "protect the people from themselves"... if it's not to protect their investement? Tell me please, I just want to understand.

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#37883 - 06 Dec 06 03:52 Re: Genocide in Papua [Re: Polar Bear]
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
The problem with well meaning civil rights people is they don’t understand the obvious:

Soldiers and police aren’t brutal for the fun of it. They do it because it is effective in stopping trouble. The most effective way to stop the crap in East Timor is to act in the same way as the TNI did. Beat the fuck out of people. Shoot a few. Hang a few.

Being hard on a few stops the suffering of many.

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#37886 - 06 Dec 06 03:54 Re: Genocide in Papua [Re: Polar Bear]
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
You are certainly not wrong there PB, but perhaps the Papuans need a more benevolent colonizer (the UN or USA?) that at least pays lip service to human rights and wealth distribution.

Further, I doubt they'd need anybody's tax dollars. Papua is one of most resource-rich territories on the friggin planet!! And that is no exaggeration; the largest gold mine in the world, the second largest copper mine in the world, megatons of oil, coal and other metals, the massive Tangguh natural gas fields, extremely valuable forests, the greatest sea life diversity on this planet and much, much more.

Some of that resource wealth just needs to get back to the people, into the people's economy, and Indonesia WILL NEVER do that.
_________________________
Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

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#37899 - 06 Dec 06 06:14 Re: Genocide in Papua [Re: riccardo]
Piss Salon Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 27 Jun 06
Posts: 4039
Loc: Jakpus
Nuts to all you monkeys. If Australia and New Zealand and in fact the remainder of the civilised world did their bit to repay their allies and neighbours for their active support in defence of Australia during World War II and actually made worthwhile contributions to the real development of East Timor and the like then we wouldn't be in this bloody mess.

A shining example of where real supports in the New Zealand, Fiji case. Ummmm. Scrub that. You get my point.

Seriously, of course the West Papuans will revert to savagry because they have been brutalised and deprived of anything resembling an education. Australia, that greedy pig of a nation, as we speak continues to fuck over East Timor, depriving it of its vast oil wealth and keeping the people in the dark ages. Give them the oil, let them sell it and let them invest in the future of their country before it descends futher in chaos. Would you rather have a prosperous, happy independent nation on Australia's doorstep or a Chinese-backed dictatorship?

Australians should be banned from commenting on anything about development anyway considering their own sorry state of affairs regarding the aboriginals.
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#37900 - 06 Dec 06 07:20 Re: Genocide in Papua [Re: Piss Salon]
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
What utter Bollocks…

1. Military history is my pet subject. Care to detail this “active support”….. cos there was hardly any. Like most nations used to be subjugated, they welcomed the Japanese as easily as they welcomed the Dutch and Portuguese. With a complete indifference. Just a new boss to serve. Most Indonesians didn’t give a toss about the Japanese… Even the Chinese hardly gave a shit. Yes a few fuzzy wussies carried injured soldiers. It was made a big PR exercise by Australia because it intended keeping “New Guinea” after the war (and did!!!). The extent to which they contributed was negligible….


2) The oil dispute over Timor is now resolved. In January 2006 Australia and East Timor signed the Treaty on Certain Maritime Arrangements in the Timor Sea in Sydney. Of course, Australia could charge ET for the cost of sorting out their shitty country, but we did it for free.

3) Aboriginals? Have you ever met one? Ever dated one? Ever kissed a beautiful Aboriginal girl at midnight in Port Augusta? Ever shared a beer with one? Ever dragged one out of a bar before he was beaten to pulp? I have…

Australia spends a disproportionate amount of money on indigenous people. They get more money than pensioners. Yes, it is sad that that they still have problems. Most of those problems they bring upon themselves. Petrol sniffing. Alcoholism., Violence. Rape. Child abuse. Domestic violence. Perhap, just perhaps, of the do gooders shut up and told the Aboriginals to sort themselves out, things might get better.

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#37901 - 06 Dec 06 07:20 Re: Genocide in Papua [Re: Piss Salon]
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
What utter Bollocks…

1. Military history is my pet subject. Care to detail this “active support”….. cos there was hardly any. Like most nations used to be subjugated, they welcomed the Japanese as easily as they welcomed the Dutch and Portuguese. With a complete indifference. Just a new boss to serve. Most Indonesians didn’t give a toss about the Japanese… Even the Chinese hardly gave a shit. Yes a few fuzzy wussies carried injured soldiers. It was made a big PR exercise by Australia because it intended keeping “New Guinea” after the war (and did!!!). The extent to which they contributed was negligible….


2) The oil dispute over Timor is now resolved. In January 2006 Australia and East Timor signed the Treaty on Certain Maritime Arrangements in the Timor Sea in Sydney. Of course, Australia could charge ET for the cost of sorting out their shitty country, but we did it for free.

3) Aboriginals? Have you ever met one? Ever dated one? Ever kissed a beautiful Aboriginal girl at midnight in Port Augusta? Ever shared a beer with one? Ever dragged one out of a bar before he was beaten to pulp? I have…

Australia spends a disproportionate amount of money on indigenous people. They get more money than pensioners. Yes, it is sad that that they still have problems. Most of those problems they bring upon themselves. Petrol sniffing. Alcoholism., Violence. Rape. Child abuse. Domestic violence. Perhap, just perhaps, of the do gooders shut up and told the Aboriginals to sort themselves out, things might get better.

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#37902 - 06 Dec 06 07:46 Re: Genocide in Papua [Re: riccardo]
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Quoting: riccardo
You are certainly not wrong there PB, but perhaps the Papuans need a more benevolent colonizer (the UN or USA?) that at least pays lip service to human rights and wealth distribution.

Further, I doubt they'd need anybody's tax dollars. Papua is one of most resource-rich territories on the friggin planet!! And that is no exaggeration; the largest gold mine in the world, the second largest copper mine in the world, megatons of oil, coal and other metals, the massive Tangguh natural gas fields, extremely valuable forests, the greatest sea life diversity on this planet and much, much more.

Some of that resource wealth just needs to get back to the people, into the people's economy, and Indonesia WILL NEVER do that.


Like Rhodesia.............. frown

(A vast agricultural and mineral rich land destroyed in less than 30 years.....)




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#37908 - 06 Dec 06 09:28 Re: Genocide in Papua [Re: Polar Bear]
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
Quoting: Polar Bear


Like Rhodesia.............. frown
(A vast agricultural and mineral rich land destroyed in less than 30 years.....)


Yes, well that's the beauty of history. Now we have the opportunity to effect a total reversal of the Rhodesia question.

For those of us who still adhere to the entirely correct philosophies of Manifest Destiny and the White Man's Burden, we now know how and why Rhodesia became an utterly befuddled mess, so hopefully in Papua we can make an example for the world to see, and show the world community that the civilized world can export more than just Pro Wrestling or Britney's generous inner thighs or Paris Hilton's highly intellectual TV drama or any other things related to Bush.
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Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

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#37909 - 06 Dec 06 09:46 Re: Genocide in Papua [Re: riccardo]
bonita Offline
Member+++

Registered: 15 Sep 06
Posts: 364
Loc: at my desk
Quoting: riccardo
Papua is one of most resource-rich territories on the friggin planet!! And that is no exaggeration; the largest gold mine in the world, the second largest copper mine in the world, megatons of oil, coal and other metals, the massive Tangguh natural gas fields, extremely valuable forests, the greatest sea life diversity on this planet and much, much more.

Some of that resource wealth just needs to get back to the people, into the people's economy, and Indonesia WILL NEVER do that.


This might be a bit out of topic, but I want to share some info...

Ric, I agree that big island is blessed by great natural resources and no doubt it is so wealthy....

Unfortunately, some (or could I say please "most") of the Papuans have no idea how to make the resources into profit or perhaps they feel that they are wealthy enough so they think money will come to them easily. I lived for a short time in the eastern part of the island and I saw many people during the day time wandering on the street with no purpose. They just sat on the pavements hours by hours or talking to each other while chewing buai(betelnut). In Jakarta, you will find pengamen, street vendors and others try to earn for a living but not in POM. If you're jobless there, then you completely wouldn't do anything. How come? Many job opportunities opened, but their requirements are sometimes 'too high' for the Papuans.
Lucky thing if you have buai tree grows up at your own property since you can sell the fruits, but if you don't, you'd just wish for a good luck... In short, they don't have strong work ethics. They don't have any motivation or at least spirit to work. Please note that few or some of them are quite different and are very keen on doing their work including one of the girls I met in my previous workplace.

And, who's now taking over their position to make the natural resources into profit? wink

I don't think that Papuans in the western and eastern could get along well together. They speak different languages and different cultures, therefore most of the times they easily misunderstood one to another. But, it is true that there were some people ran away from Western part and crossed the border to PNG decades ago. They are now residing in some parts of PNG and to other southern pacific island like vanuatu, etc. Some of them have been back home (repatriated) based on their willingness to do so to West Papua (e.g. Merauke) few years ago.

I have heard about the killings and don't want to comment about that (may God forgives ones who did the genocide). I wonder if there are people who really care to educate them or to put them into right direction how they can build/develop their country/regions in order to give back and let them enjoy the profit made of their properties. Not only Indo who wants to take profit of this island, others want their parts,too wink

Too bad, poor Papua, the island is really beautiful. If only they knew how to make themselves rich.
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wo lamhe wo bateein koi na jaane...

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#37911 - 06 Dec 06 09:53 Re: Genocide in Papua [Re: riccardo]
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Quoting: riccardo
Quoting: Polar Bear


Like Rhodesia.............. frown
(A vast agricultural and mineral rich land destroyed in less than 30 years.....)


Yes, well that's the beauty of history. Now we have the opportunity to effect a total reversal of the Rhodesia question.

For those of us who still adhere to the entirely correct philosophies of Manifest Destiny and the White Man's Burden, we now know how and why Rhodesia became an utterly befuddled mess, so hopefully in Papua we can make an example for the world to see, and show the world community that the civilized world can export more than just Pro Wrestling or Britney's generous inner thighs or Paris Hilton's highly intellectual TV drama or any other things related to Bush.


Its easy to knock the great American Dream. The people who knock it have full bellies, educated kids, hospitals,, police forces, fire brigades, long life expectancies and live without fear.

A few Rwandans would like to be eating dunkin doughnuts right now. Sadly they cant, cos they are dead…….

The west is far from perfect. It’s the best I have seen so far……

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