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#37829 - 05 Dec 06 23:04 Plagiarism @ THE POINT
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
In the Tuesday Dec. 5 edition of the new English newspaper THE POINT, they use almost 5 paragraphs from Patung's article "Sex Scandal" on his site Indonesia Matters http://www.indonesiamatters.com/855/sex-scandal/

It’s a verbatim, copy-and-paste job with absolutely no attribution to Indonesia Matters or Patung…. hmmmm

Check it out on p. 2 in the story about Zaini’s resignation.
If you don't get THE POINT this is the bit they copied:

"...frolicking about in a fashion thought by many only permissible within the bounds of holy matrimony.

The man, Y.Z., may or may not be Yahya Zaini of East Java, who is currently on a study tour of Australia, although due to return on December 2nd.

The woman, M.E., is Maria Eva, or Maria Ireva, a singer and actress from Surabaya, East Java, who belongs to the Golkar youth organisation.


The five to ten minute porno recording, believed to have been made in 2004, shows the nude singer laying on a bed, seductively one might imagine, while the politician, who is still standing and also stark naked, approaches her.

He playfully attempts to take the camera away from the woman, which brings him into rather close contact with her. Shortly after the recording stops..."
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#37835 - 05 Dec 06 23:28 Re: Plagiarism @ THE POINT [Re: riccardo]
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Funny to complain about plagiarism in JKT.


Itsn this the city where Casino Royal premiered in Ratu Plaza for 20,000rp?????

Copying something rather than getting off your arse and creating is a way of life......



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#37837 - 05 Dec 06 23:32 Re: Plagiarism @ THE POINT [Re: Polar Bear]
Patung Offline
Member++

Registered: 11 Mar 06
Posts: 234
Loc: Indonesia
Wow, I've got a fan.
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http://www.indonesiamatters.com/

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#37840 - 05 Dec 06 23:53 Re: Plagiarism @ THE POINT [Re: Patung]
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
I agree PB about all the copycats here, but when it comes to a new English-language newspaper, you'd think they'd want to strive for a bit more professionalism and simply attribute the copied paragraphs to Patung.

Patung, are you going to contact them about it? There is at least one regular posting member of JakChat who is now working with them.
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Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

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#37841 - 06 Dec 06 00:05 Re: Plagiarism @ THE POINT [Re: riccardo]
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Plagiarism is the scourge of the internet. When Bill Gates leaned over to Paul Allen and said “what about a copy and past function”, the world took a step backwards…

But is opens up an argument closer to my heart. Ownership….

My communist friends used to tell me property is theft. They now all now nice houses in the home counties…

The hippie bands that I listened to in my youth, who were so much into free life and love, now fight to shut down Napster….

Is the copying of a handful of paragraphs such a heinous crime?

Surely if we write something, it is to convey an opinion, or belief. It is not to gain glory or grow rich and fat.

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#37843 - 06 Dec 06 00:10 Re: Plagiarism @ THE POINT [Re: riccardo]
Patung Offline
Member++

Registered: 11 Mar 06
Posts: 234
Loc: Indonesia
Quoting: riccardo
Patung, are you going to contact them about it?


if they had a website I'd be right on it, but a small circulation paper it's hardly worth it but i guess i should.

The thing about plagiarism is you gotta make some effort to hide it, jesus.

Quoting: riccardo
There is at least one regular posting member of jakchat who is now working with them.


errrr....
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http://www.indonesiamatters.com/

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#37845 - 06 Dec 06 00:25 Re: Plagiarism @ THE POINT [Re: Patung]
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Hey Pat,

Forget the plagiarism, worry more about DG, who is boring the ass off everyone as "Harry" the short ass loser on your site......

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#37859 - 06 Dec 06 01:25 Re: Plagiarism @ THE POINT [Re: Polar Bear]
Patung Offline
Member++

Registered: 11 Mar 06
Posts: 234
Loc: Indonesia
Quoting: Polar Bear
Hey Pat,

Forget the plagiarism, worry more about DG, who is boring the ass off everyone as "Harry" the short ass loser on your site......


Some people just take a while to get wise to him.
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http://www.indonesiamatters.com/

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#37862 - 06 Dec 06 01:40 Re: Plagiarism @ THE POINT [Re: Patung]
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
Pooh Bah

Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
Loc: Centre of the Universe
Quoting: patung
Quoting: riccardo
Patung, are you going to contact them about it?


if they had a website I'd be right on it, but a small circulation paper it's hardly worth it but i guess i should.

i say, go for it! demand an apology! get them to print your web address on the front page (along with a plug for JakChat!!) smile
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KuKuKaChu: dangerously too sophisticated

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#37864 - 06 Dec 06 01:55 Re: Plagiarism @ THE POINT [Re: KuKuKaChu]
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
Exactly KUKU. Now you're on the right track.

I can give you guys tel and email info:

PT Gagas Giat Gelora
Tel: 021 7243533
Fax (do people still use these antiquated dinosaurs) : 021 7204252
email: editor@thepoint-daily.com
website: http://thepoint-daily.com/

Publisher: Bakti Santoso Luddin
Directors: Bernard TH Napitupulu, Henry Kembaren, C. Judhabrahma
Chief Editor: Ibrahim G. Zakir
Managing Editor: Riris Irawati
_________________________
Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

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#37910 - 06 Dec 06 09:51 Re: Plagiarism @ THE POINT [Re: riccardo]
Patung Offline
Member++

Registered: 11 Mar 06
Posts: 234
Loc: Indonesia
Well I took your advice and called them up, was surprisingly painless getting through to someone, she, I think the desk editor, was very embarrassed about it. She said she would tell the chief editor and managing editor, who were 'in a meeting' and they would get back to me. So.

Thanks Ric for pointing this out, great catch. smile smile
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http://www.indonesiamatters.com/

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#37918 - 06 Dec 06 10:29 Re: Plagiarism @ THE POINT [Re: Patung]
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
No worries Pat.

[mini-rant]Ya, that's one of the biggest gripes some people have about me, I keenly remember everything I've ever read exactly, then I have the gall to point out errors and most of the dimwits of this planet whinge about know-it-all this and brainy nerd that...

The masses strive for a general dumbing down of the population so everybody will act and think dumb just like them... [/mini-rant]
_________________________
Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

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#37925 - 06 Dec 06 14:05 Re: Plagiarism @ THE POINT [Re: riccardo]
xsbir Offline
Member+

Registered: 29 Oct 06
Posts: 75
Loc: The Big Durian
Quoting: riccardo
No worries Pat.

[mini-rant]Ya, that's one of the biggest gripes some people have about me, I keenly remember everything I've ever read exactly, then I have the gall to point out errors and most of the dimwits of this planet whinge about know-it-all this and brainy nerd that...

The masses strive for a general dumbing down of the population so everybody will act and think dumb just like them... [/mini-rant]


You "keenly remember everything you've ever read exactly"? Obviously an exaggeration and boasting, and judging by the thread about irony last week, you don't always understand what you read.

Pointing out errors has nothing to do with plagiarism: the latter is intellectual theft. The former is about oneupmanship.

The "masses" wish people could use adverbs; we don't think "dumb"(sic). We may think intelligently (sometimes)like when we voted Democrat in the mid-term elections. We voted stupidly when we voted for little Bushy in the first place!

"Know-it-all": think Cliff Claven(sp) from the old sitcom Cheers=Riccardo



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Don't even try!

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#37935 - 06 Dec 06 21:48 Re: Plagiarism @ THE POINT [Re: xsbir]
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
The infinite monkey theorem states that a monkey hitting keys at random on a typewriter keyboard for an infinite amount of time will almost surely type or create a particular chosen text, such as the complete works of William Shakespeare. Note that "almost surely" in this context is a mathematical term with a specific meaning, and that the "monkey" is not an actual monkey; rather, it is a vivid metaphor for an abstract device that produces a large, random sequence of letters.


In 1998 I was studying Management Theory. For this particular degree I had to study philosophy. The subject for the semester was – “Does the Sum of Chaos = Order”

My answer was that is must, and I used the swinging pen allegory to prove it.

A pen swings on a cord over a sheet of white paper. The pen drips ink at random on the paper. The sheet starts out at order – a plain sheet sheet. As random drops of ink fall, it descends into chaos. But eventually the paper is covered in ink, and is a uniform blue colour. Thus the sum of chaos must equal order.

But - this only holds true if infinity is invoked. Only if the pen swings and drips for ever, can we guarantee the order of a blue sheet of paper.

This brought me into contact with the Chudnovsky Brothers and their search for numeric patterns in Pi. Gregory and David chudnovsky are brilliant (but unorthodox) mathematicians. Working alone, with the aid of a self built super computer called M ZERO, they successful calculated Pi out beyond 9 billion digits, and then carried out exhaustive work on finding patterns buried within it.

If they had found a clear reproducible pattern it would have changed mathematics for ever, and facilitated algorithms that would have made radical improvements to some computing applications. The actual algorithm that they used to calculate Pi is now widely used in scientific commuting programs.

They didn’t find any solid patterns. Pi is thus mathematical infinity.

Which raised an interesting philosophical demonstration of infinity. If we were to calculate Pi to infinity, and then ascribe the Hex values into ACSI, you would have an infinite random series of letters.

Since infinity is, by its very nature infinite, all things are possible and must occur.

Contained within Pi is the Bible. And the Koran. And the Idiots guide to Origami. And the entire life story of Macan tutul, in every known language. Every word ever written on JakChat is contained in Pi. Everyone’s life story. The true secret of life is contained in a simple mathematical calculation.

Thus any argument on fate, karma, and “it is written”, must take into account infinity.

Anyone interested take a look at :

http://www.wadanet.com/hasegawa/chud.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregory_Chudnovsky

http://jubal.westnet.com/hyperdiscordia/library_of_babel.html

In Indonesia, people are cheap. you employ lots of them. maybe the infinite monkey theorum exists in Jakarta Post!

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#37948 - 07 Dec 06 00:15 Re: Plagiarism @ THE POINT [Re: Polar Bear]
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
Update:

Today in THE POINT, there is no apology and no mention of their mistakes. I wonder if the embarrassed desk editor actually did notify the other editors??

_________________________
Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

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#37986 - 07 Dec 06 10:34 Re: Plagiarism @ THE POINT [Re: Polar Bear]
Shesca Offline
Member*

Registered: 12 Aug 06
Posts: 852
Loc: Jakarta
Quoting: Polar Bear
The infinite monkey theorem states that a monkey hitting keys at random on a typewriter keyboard for an infinite amount of time will almost surely type or create a particular chosen text, such as the complete works of William Shakespeare. Note that "almost surely" in this context is a mathematical term with a specific meaning, and that the "monkey" is not an actual monkey; rather, it is a vivid metaphor for an abstract device that produces a large, random sequence of letters.


In 1998 I was studying Management Theory. For this particular degree I had to study philosophy. The subject for the semester was – “Does the Sum of Chaos = Order”

My answer was that is must, and I used the swinging pen allegory to prove it.

A pen swings on a cord over a sheet of white paper. The pen drips ink at random on the paper. The sheet starts out at order – a plain sheet sheet. As random drops of ink fall, it descends into chaos. But eventually the paper is covered in ink, and is a uniform blue colour. Thus the sum of chaos must equal order.

But - this only holds true if infinity is invoked. Only if the pen swings and drips for ever, can we guarantee the order of a blue sheet of paper.

This brought me into contact with the Chudnovsky Brothers and their search for numeric patterns in Pi. Gregory and David chudnovsky are brilliant (but unorthodox) mathematicians. Working alone, with the aid of a self built super computer called M ZERO, they successful calculated Pi out beyond 9 billion digits, and then carried out exhaustive work on finding patterns buried within it.

If they had found a clear reproducible pattern it would have changed mathematics for ever, and facilitated algorithms that would have made radical improvements to some computing applications. The actual algorithm that they used to calculate Pi is now widely used in scientific commuting programs.

They didn’t find any solid patterns. Pi is thus mathematical infinity.

Which raised an interesting philosophical demonstration of infinity. If we were to calculate Pi to infinity, and then ascribe the Hex values into ACSI, you would have an infinite random series of letters.

Since infinity is, by its very nature infinite, all things are possible and must occur.

Contained within Pi is the Bible. And the Koran. And the Idiots guide to Origami. And the entire life story of Macan tutul, in every known language. Every word ever written on JakChat is contained in Pi. Everyone’s life story. The true secret of life is contained in a simple mathematical calculation.

Thus any argument on fate, karma, and “it is written”, must take into account infinity.

Anyone interested take a look at :

http://www.wadanet.com/hasegawa/chud.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregory_Chudnovsky

http://jubal.westnet.com/hyperdiscordia/library_of_babel.html

In Indonesia, people are cheap. you employ lots of them. maybe the infinite monkey theorum exists in Jakarta Post!


Interesting theory, PB.
Correct me if im wrong (English Skill, etc smile )This is very similar with equilibrium theory in any aspects of life. Where nature, population, economy, and everything else will balance itself for any new factors introduced to distract its perfection. But this may very well mean there wont be the so called end of day...
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If you can't describe what you are doing as a process, you don't know what you're doing.

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#37991 - 07 Dec 06 10:44 Re: Plagiarism @ THE POINT [Re: riccardo]
Capt. Mainwaring Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 16 Aug 06
Posts: 3225
Loc: here
"Which raised an interesting philosophical demonstration of infinity. If we were to calculate Pi to infinity, and then ascribe the Hex values into ACSI, you would have an infinite random series of letters."

I'd like to see you try , unless you can express pi as a fraction , then you can't use hex .
To use hex to represent a real number , you would have to rationalise that real into a top heavy fraction , which then could be represented in bastard hex .

To state that pi is capable of holding such information is a touch overenthusiastic since it is possible to determine what the nth digit of pi is (as an integer expressed in hex) - therefore you statement suggests that any given word can be determined by not opening the book , but only by knowing its position in the book - but because of the radix 16 , there would be loads of repitions along the way .

My life is blighted by intellectual proerty thieves - you have to ask yourself however if you post a reply on a forum to a technical question , whether you own by default the IP to any further replies based upon your answer.

I suppose Patung should have been given due credit for his article , though we may also ask where his little photo of a mobile came from ? There are many photos posted here , and I suspect only a very few a posted with due regard to IP .

Actually though , there are a few people I know who life story could be represented by Pi .

46 72 69 6e 6b 20 52 75 6c 65 73 21 - convert it to ASCII indexes and remember homer .

Learning Binomial theorem in the dim and distant past was completed by proving and calculating pi , but believe me after about 10 decimal places it becomes unnecessary and boring . Modern floating point maths starts truncating at 16 decimal places anyhow .

The old trick with W95 or W98 was to use calculator and carry out the follwing calculation :- 750.5-750.35 , if you have an old PC running these operating systems , you will see the result of the 16 place truncation .




Edited by James Hanratty (07 Dec 06 10:59)
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I also made a vegetarian version,with tempe and tofu chunks for myself and others.Get over it.
Kosong.Wolo.Setunggal.Setunggal.Setunggal.Kosong.Pitu.Setunggal.Kosong.Wolo=Tempik

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#38003 - 07 Dec 06 12:02 Re: Plagiarism @ THE POINT [Re: riccardo]
Patung Offline
Member++

Registered: 11 Mar 06
Posts: 234
Loc: Indonesia
Quoting: riccardo
Update:

Today in THE POINT, there is no apology and no mention of their mistakes. I wonder if the embarrassed desk editor actually did notify the other editors??



They sent me an anonymous email, the journalist who did it has been 'disciplined', no mention of any apology.
_________________________
http://www.indonesiamatters.com/

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#38006 - 07 Dec 06 12:08 Re: Plagiarism @ THE POINT [Re: Capt. Mainwaring]
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Quoting: James Hanratty


To state that pi is capable of holding such information is a touch overenthusiastic





Jorge Luis Borges story “the Library of Babel” was based upon his interest in infinity. This became the basis of the logical deduction that if pi were to run to infinity, and if letters replaced the numbers (however way you wish to do so) then everything must exist within pi.

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#38012 - 07 Dec 06 12:51 Re: Plagiarism @ THE POINT [Re: Polar Bear]
Capt. Mainwaring Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 16 Aug 06
Posts: 3225
Loc: here
yes , at some point that would be possible - there is however nothing logical about such meanderings of the mind - it doesn't have to be pi - however most of the rnd algorithms/equations are based upon the same calculation using 1/24 segment of a circle , there is just as much chance that a random number generator could generate a number to an infinite number of places , contain pi and the Bible in Hindi .

There is also the possibility that if I drilled a hole in Jorge Luis Borges head and placed a metal coat hanger in the hole and switzled it around , I could rearrange his braincells so that he was mentally identical to Hank Marvin -

I also think you pen analogy is flawed , there is nothing random in the orbit of a swinging pen , and the drop pattern - there may not be a discernable pattern after some time , but it is there . Just as there is equal chance that in any group of 11 digits from pi will have an equal distribution of numbers does not imply that there is any order in the sequence -
_________________________
I also made a vegetarian version,with tempe and tofu chunks for myself and others.Get over it.
Kosong.Wolo.Setunggal.Setunggal.Setunggal.Kosong.Pitu.Setunggal.Kosong.Wolo=Tempik

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#38032 - 08 Dec 06 00:24 Re: Plagiarism @ THE POINT [Re: Capt. Mainwaring]
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
UPDATE:
In the Thurs. Dec. 7 edition of THE POINT, they have a tiny little APOLOGY box at the bottom of p. 2, which reads:

APOLOGY
Some of the content in our news story titled 'Scandal leads to Zaini's resignation' published on Tuesday, Dec. 5 should have been attributed to to the www.indonesiamatters.com. We regret the omission of the attribution.
The Editor


Well, if nothing else, it should be in the back of their minds now that the public is watching. AND, overall, the English is improving since one of our JC members joined them recently.

AND James and PB, the answer to all the questions you guys pose above is: 1.772343~ Hope that helps. If not, try increasing the dosage or changing the color of your medication.
_________________________
Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

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#38094 - 08 Dec 06 12:43 Re: Plagiarism @ THE POINT [Re: riccardo]
Piss Salon Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 27 Jun 06
Posts: 4039
Loc: Jakpus
Thought it was 42
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place within us love that truly gives, tenderness that truly unites, self-offering that tells the truth and does not deceive, forgiveness that truly receives, loving physical union that welcomes

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#38099 - 08 Dec 06 18:59 Re: Plagiarism @ THE POINT [Re: Piss Salon]
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Quoting: Piss Salon
Thought it was 42


Hitchhikers Guide....... smile

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#38140 - 09 Dec 06 07:21 Re: Plagiarism @ THE POINT [Re: Polar Bear]
Piss Salon Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 27 Jun 06
Posts: 4039
Loc: Jakpus
PB. If you are ever passing by a local library try and track down a copy of a Douglas Adam book, based on travels he made around the world documenting particular species headed for extinction. He dedicates one chapter to Indonesia, specifically Komodo. Contained in the chapter is an hilarious paragraph about Indonesians and their ability to lie.

I can't remember the title nor the quote.
_________________________
place within us love that truly gives, tenderness that truly unites, self-offering that tells the truth and does not deceive, forgiveness that truly receives, loving physical union that welcomes

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#38306 - 12 Dec 06 07:55 Re: Plagiarism @ THE POINT [Re: Polar Bear]
Macan Tutul Offline
Pujangga Muda

Registered: 02 Dec 05
Posts: 1502
Loc: Jungle and cage ;)
Quoting: Polar Bear

Contained within Pi is the Bible. And the Koran. And the Idiots guide to Origami. And the entire life story of Macan tutul, in every known language. Every word ever written on JakChat is contained in Pi. Everyone’s life story. The true secret of life is contained in a simple mathematical calculation.

Thus any argument on fate, karma, and “it is written”, must take into account infinity.


Anyone interested take a look at :

http://www.wadanet.com/hasegawa/chud.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregory_Chudnovsky

http://jubal.westnet.com/hyperdiscordia/library_of_babel.html

In Indonesia, people are cheap. you employ lots of them. maybe the infinite monkey theorum exists in Jakarta Post!


Why me ??? confused
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" Don't be shy with yourself, you have lots of talent without you notice....that's human, just be who you are."

(Memoirs of 3/3/2007)

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