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#36498 - 21 Nov 06 08:27 Drinking beer offensive or not to Muslims?
scout Offline
Member

Registered: 21 Nov 06
Posts: 2
Loc: Jakarta
I have a question involving the attitudes Muslims may have towards the consumption of beer. With out getting to specific on the occasion. Would it be offensive for an expat-American, to consume beer in public, i.e. private tour bus or outside a tour bus while waiting for group return to bus? Thanks for any views or comments.

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#36499 - 21 Nov 06 08:56 Re: Drinking beer offensive or not to Muslims? [Re: scout]
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Scout,

I don’t think you can put all Muslims in one basket. Some – the fanatics, would be offended. Others would not.

The problem is the fanatics are getting ore vocal, the moderates are getting quieter (scared?) and the non Muslim world is allowing them to get away with it.

Alcohol is against the Koran. So is coffee, Tea, dancing, holding your wife’s hand, playing with yourself and a host of other things considered normal in the west.

Now although they are banned, the Koran doesn’t not say you must stop others from doing it.

That is the arrogance and jealousy of a people who know religion is crap but don’t have the guys to stand up and say so.

If anyone objects, smash the Bintang bottle and jab it in their face. They tend to shut up then….

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#36502 - 21 Nov 06 09:04 Re: Drinking beer offensive or not to Muslims? [Re: Polar Bear]
scout Offline
Member

Registered: 21 Nov 06
Posts: 2
Loc: Jakarta
I didn't think my behaivor was offensive. It was the comment of an expat american wife to a friend of mine, who claimed my behaivior was offensive to the driver and tour guide on bus. I wasn't overserving my self, well not untill I "accidently" ordered two double for myself. I have come to the understanding that while in Indonesia I am not dealing with fanatical group of Muslims and Islam isn't what is being portrayed in the American press.
Looking back now, I can assume her comment came from her negative and somewhat ignorant view of the country she now finds herself living in. I can in good conscience believe my actions are not offensive. I grew up in a very eccumenical household. Respecting all religions, cultures, and beliefs. It goes with having immigrant parents, reading, education and living life with an open heart and mind.

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#36503 - 21 Nov 06 09:11 Re: Drinking beer offensive or not to Muslims? [Re: scout]
Piss Salon Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 27 Jun 06
Posts: 4039
Loc: Jakpus
No problems mate. Muslims love beer. Especially the woman with the head coverings. They also like crack and being groped firmly on the buttocks by drunk Americans. I imagine your leader will be doing this in Bogor right about now.
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#36504 - 21 Nov 06 09:15 Re: Drinking beer offensive or not to Muslims? [Re: scout]
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Thats Americans for you.

In country 5 minutes and telling everyone else how they should conduct themselves.

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#36505 - 21 Nov 06 10:15 Re: Drinking beer offensive or not to Muslims? [Re: Polar Bear]
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
I agree that the most annoyingly judgmental people in this country are first-year expats, who think they know everything because they read the Lonely Planet's "culture" section on the plane ride over here. How did this American wife even know they guide was a muzzie? They could've been Batak Christians, most of whom can drink an Irishman under the table. The guide's perceived anxiety may have been his intense desire to ask you for a bottle for himself.

But seriously, that is such B.S., this isn't Saudi Arabia and almost every Indonesian already is sure (in their own minds) that we're all depraved sex maniacs and alcoholics, thus they accept our drinking habit as being part of our culture. And if it was a tourist deal, they will be even less judgmental.
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#36543 - 22 Nov 06 00:02 Re: Drinking beer offensive or not to Muslims? [Re: riccardo]
No Eye Dear Offline
Member+

Registered: 09 Mar 06
Posts: 57
Loc: Mars
Ha, ha, ha, ha....when I read it was an An American Expat Wife that made the statement you got to laugh.......Oh yes they know everything and even form clubs to prove that they know everything, The American Womens Association for Knowing Everything There Is To Know. They love to warn you about possibilities of danger as that is how the American system works ...IT IS ALL BASED ON FEAR....

Believing anything an American Expat Wife has to say is like believing Ted Haggard and Jimmy Swaggart are really God and his Brother Goder.
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#36556 - 22 Nov 06 01:24 Re: Drinking beer offensive or not to Muslims? [Re: No Eye Dear]
Polar Bear Offline
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Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
I think the issue is that Americans tend to be insular. Most Americand know bugger all about the rest of the world (although they are getting better, they now know where Iraq and Vietnam both are smile

But when they DO arrive outside their comfort zone they tend to panic, and over react.

chill out woman, sip your beer...


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#36558 - 22 Nov 06 01:34 Re: Drinking beer offensive or not to Muslims? [Re: Polar Bear]
Dilli Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 26 Feb 06
Posts: 8044
Loc: Nearest Bar
It has never bothered me! I'll drink anywhere as those who know me can testify!
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#36559 - 22 Nov 06 01:42 Re: Drinking beer offensive or not to Muslims? [Re: Dilli]
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Other people drinking beer has bugger all to do with the Koran.

The problem is making people obey the Koran. To do that they impose Sharia Law. Because no one in their right mind would obey the laws otherwise - because they are interpertational and not doctrinal laws.

The problem then is the envy of those forced to obey by law, and those who are not forced to obey.

Dili will remember holding a Chrtistian drinking licence in Dubai smile


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#36560 - 22 Nov 06 01:46 Re: Drinking beer offensive or not to Muslims? [Re: Polar Bear]
Dilli Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 26 Feb 06
Posts: 8044
Loc: Nearest Bar
Boose License....it allowed you to consume and purchase. I had a super sized one
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#36606 - 22 Nov 06 05:37 Re: Drinking beer offensive or not to Muslims? [Re: Polar Bear]
No Eye Dear Offline
Member+

Registered: 09 Mar 06
Posts: 57
Loc: Mars
Polar I disagree....if I may....I think it is more their superiority complex in many ways. I find the American Expat wives I have encountered in all my years (even in Freeport/Unocal/Newmont) are loud and obnoxious and are forever giving out advice. They think they are the ruling class and therefore should be listened to.....which again, from pretty much across the street you can do that anyway. More often they have not got a clue and will warn you against doing pretty much anything...fear...fear....fear....just in case. Funny how they seem to know so much when it is rare to find them actually listening....how is this accomplished ?

The Australian Women's Association has become very competitive in this information management field as well and they are coming along just fine in trying to catch up with their newly formed Busy Body Group...their motto is "Did-ja-no" and "Did-ja-ere"...I have personally received many a warning from the local group of Australian wives, they seem to "care more about my welfare" (which may I say is lovely) and specifically advise me on the dangers of going out at night, yes, it is dangerous to even contemplate going out at night, especially when it is dark.

It has become very competitive as to who is officially to best warning makers.....The stakes are high as is the average weight. Average American Expat Wife weighs 200 kgs while the average Australian beauty weighs in at 180kg.

I do howerver spend most of my time living in fear that I might have to sit next to one of these woman on an Indonesian aircraft. Barely room for one let alone an Expat American or Australian woman.


Edited by No Eye Dear (22 Nov 06 05:45)
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#36607 - 22 Nov 06 05:57 Re: Drinking beer offensive or not to Muslims? [Re: scout]
Capt. Mainwaring Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 16 Aug 06
Posts: 3225
Loc: here
Quoting: scout
I have a question involving the attitudes Muslims may have towards the consumption of beer. With out getting to specific on the occasion. Would it be offensive for an expat-American, to consume beer in public, i.e. private tour bus or outside a tour bus while waiting for group return to bus? Thanks for any views or comments.


Bearing in mind what your venereal president has done in the past couple of years - you may find that your presence alone in a tour bus is offensive - to add beer is not necessary .

If you did this in my "home" country (though I am mostly mid atlantic now) - I would be unable to supress the desire to shove each can down your loud arrogant throat .

I suppose you also wear a baseball cap on back to front ?
_________________________
I also made a vegetarian version,with tempe and tofu chunks for myself and others.Get over it.
Kosong.Wolo.Setunggal.Setunggal.Setunggal.Kosong.Pitu.Setunggal.Kosong.Wolo=Tempik

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#36614 - 22 Nov 06 06:31 Re: Drinking beer offensive or not to Muslims? [Re: scout]
Capt. Mainwaring Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 16 Aug 06
Posts: 3225
Loc: here
Quoting: scout
I didn't think my behaivor was offensive. It was the comment of an expat american wife to a friend of mine, who claimed my behaivior was offensive to the driver and tour guide on bus. I wasn't overserving my self, well not untill I "accidently" ordered two double for myself. I have come to the understanding that while in Indonesia I am not dealing with fanatical group of Muslims and Islam isn't what is being portrayed in the American press.
Looking back now, I can assume her comment came from her negative and somewhat ignorant view of the country she now finds herself living in. I can in good conscience believe my actions are not offensive. I grew up in a very eccumenical household. Respecting all religions, cultures, and beliefs. It goes with having immigrant parents, reading, education and living life with an open heart and mind.


Can I get you to do something for me ? Go to Saudi and try the same thing - after you have done that , why don't go go to Thailand and stick your fingers up at a picture of the King . I'd suggest you go to China , but from experience , there is very little you could do in China that could cause an offense , not even an American .

Islam in not necessarily what it is portrayed in the American Press - however if you are so shit silly as be make a provocative gesture in a Country where your welcome is dubious at best , then you deserve what you get .

_________________________
I also made a vegetarian version,with tempe and tofu chunks for myself and others.Get over it.
Kosong.Wolo.Setunggal.Setunggal.Setunggal.Kosong.Pitu.Setunggal.Kosong.Wolo=Tempik

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#36617 - 22 Nov 06 06:44 Re: Drinking beer offensive or not to Muslims? [Re: Capt. Mainwaring]
No Eye Dear Offline
Member+

Registered: 09 Mar 06
Posts: 57
Loc: Mars
Hey James, I thought Scout asked a pretty OK question, after all he did delete the bit about "does the sun rise in the east and set in the west" and as it turns out a very well informed American Women did raise some suspicion as to beer drinking, pig eating, public bathing, and the sexual preferences of her husbands.

Personally, I am only having a bit of fun with dem big fat white wimin that one wonders who in their right mind would ever get off making love with loud mouth obnoxious lard arse ugly women such as them. I actually live in fear of ever having to be repatriated.......

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Ever stop to think and forget to start again?

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#36620 - 22 Nov 06 06:53 Re: Drinking beer offensive or not to Muslims? [Re: No Eye Dear]
Capt. Mainwaring Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 16 Aug 06
Posts: 3225
Loc: here
I think that clarifies things .
_________________________
I also made a vegetarian version,with tempe and tofu chunks for myself and others.Get over it.
Kosong.Wolo.Setunggal.Setunggal.Setunggal.Kosong.Pitu.Setunggal.Kosong.Wolo=Tempik

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#36636 - 22 Nov 06 08:28 Re: Drinking beer offensive or not to Muslims? [Re: Dilli]
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Quoting: Dilli
Boose License....it allowed you to consume and purchase. I had a super sized one


Still got mine...... many happy hours at the Red Lion..... frown

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#36639 - 22 Nov 06 08:43 Re: Drinking beer offensive or not to Muslims? [Re: Polar Bear]
Capt. Mainwaring Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 16 Aug 06
Posts: 3225
Loc: here
Must have been a long time ago - you can't slurp in Sharjah full stop unless his Royal Sheikhiness has changed things . Strangely , the Irish bar in the airport is shut during Ramadan , you have to go out of the airport to get a slurp .
Dubai is easy with slurping now.
_________________________
I also made a vegetarian version,with tempe and tofu chunks for myself and others.Get over it.
Kosong.Wolo.Setunggal.Setunggal.Setunggal.Kosong.Pitu.Setunggal.Kosong.Wolo=Tempik

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#36652 - 22 Nov 06 09:40 Re: Drinking beer offensive or not to Muslims? [Re: Capt. Mainwaring]
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Sharjah always was 'Dry"....

In Dubai you had to hold a drinking licence to get alcohol. The bar staff were suposed to ask to see it. They never asked for mine.....

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#36655 - 22 Nov 06 10:40 Re: Drinking beer offensive or not to Muslims? [Re: Polar Bear]
Dilli Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 26 Feb 06
Posts: 8044
Loc: Nearest Bar
Ah, The Red Lion, Metropolitan Hotel,,,,,,,there are some stories there. And FTR, Sharjah was not always dry! (Dirty Nellies springs to mind, The Wanderers Rugby Clubb & the Lilley Club also) Its obvious Mr James never lived in the Emirates!
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#36657 - 22 Nov 06 10:55 Re: Drinking beer offensive or not to Muslims? [Re: Dilli]
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
The WANDERERS..........


Those bastard could drink!!!!

Ever come across a guy called Eric Moore......

He is in JKT now, ran into him in the Sportsmans one night. Fuck, he looked just the same (ugly).....

works for Seimens now

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#36658 - 22 Nov 06 10:56 Re: Drinking beer offensive or not to Muslims? [Re: Dilli]
Capt. Mainwaring Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 16 Aug 06
Posts: 3225
Loc: here
Quoting: Dilli
Ah, The Red Lion, Metropolitan Hotel,,,,,,,there are some stories there. And FTR, Sharjah was not always dry! (Dirty Nellies springs to mind, The Wanderers Rugby Clubb & the Lilley Club also) Its obvious Mr James never lived in the Emirates!


It is that "obvious" that it is wrong - I lived in Ajman for a little while - and worked in the FTZ - want to guess where ? should be easy with your endless knowledge of the UAE !

Assumption is a wonderful if misguided thing - I could assume for example that because you speak but a few words of Indonesian , that you have only been in JKT for a couple of months - but we both know that is wrong , don't we ?

I suppose it would be a bit like comparing definitions of "live" - You don't "live" in Indo as I didn't "live" in Ajman .

_________________________
I also made a vegetarian version,with tempe and tofu chunks for myself and others.Get over it.
Kosong.Wolo.Setunggal.Setunggal.Setunggal.Kosong.Pitu.Setunggal.Kosong.Wolo=Tempik

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#36665 - 22 Nov 06 11:50 Re: Drinking beer offensive or not to Muslims? [Re: Capt. Mainwaring]
Dilli Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 26 Feb 06
Posts: 8044
Loc: Nearest Bar
James, I lived in the UAE (Dubai)for 18 years! as for the FTZ Ajman I cannot guess who you worked for, most companies went bust real quick! I never lived in Ajman, nor Sharjah, worked in Sharjah for 3-1/2 years and I can assure you I know the place inside out. Lack off language skills really have nothing to do with how much someone understands the country & environment one lives in!

I also donate a bit of my time to give something back to the country I "live" in...Do you?

PS Do you know Tony Restall?
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Menace to Sobriety


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#36666 - 22 Nov 06 11:52 Re: Drinking beer offensive or not to Muslims? [Re: Dilli]
Dilli Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 26 Feb 06
Posts: 8044
Loc: Nearest Bar
Oh yes, I forgot, unless you can get positive ----you're still a cunt!
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Menace to Sobriety


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#36677 - 22 Nov 06 14:09 Re: Drinking beer offensive or not to Muslims? [Re: Dilli]
Capt. Mainwaring Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 16 Aug 06
Posts: 3225
Loc: here
Quoting: Dilli
James, I lived in the UAE (Dubai)for 18 years! as for the FTZ Ajman I cannot guess who you worked for, most companies went bust real quick! I never lived in Ajman, nor Sharjah, worked in Sharjah for 3-1/2 years and I can assure you I know the place inside out. Lack off language skills really have nothing to do with how much someone understands the country & environment one lives in!

I also donate a bit of my time to give something back to the country I "live" in...Do you?

PS Do you know Tony Restall?


Nothing to do with black stuff or the ancilliaries - more like the brown stuff , if you will forgive the pun . As I mentioned , there is no requirement for a permit to purchase alcohol in Dubai or Ajman - having only driven through Sharjah I can't comment , but I believe that there is a blanket ban - all down to the ruling Sheikh .
There is of course no need to learn to speak arabic in Dubai - you would be better of learning hindi or tagalog - in anycase the place is full of british hopefulls flexing their respective tattoos - the only possible language you need to learn is Geordie .
Don't know Tony Restall - is he one of the Sheikhs ?do you know Mark Hale and his Dad ? have they managed to wean his mum off the cooking sherry yet ?
Trying to remember the name of the old twit who worked for Halliburton cleaning out the crappers - he thought he was Onasis .

The next bit is always a joy for me - maybe my situation is a little different to yours - having married half the Kampung as we do willingly or not when we take an Indonesian wife , I feel reasonably well qualified to answer your question - Yes I do , but I have to say that there is not a sign outside my little house that gives a statement to that effect . Anyone who chooses for whatever reason to contribute to their local community should have no cause to advertise this fact - it is between them and their conscience .

As for language - I couldn't work anywhere for an extended period without learning some of the language - in the case of Indonesia and my situation , it is more a necessity to learn the language , and it doesn't stop with just bahasa Indonesia - for me , Javanese is incorporated into daily life , initially I sat with my little kamus , wondering what "silit" meant , before realising that Javanese was mixed with Indonesian with no clear boundaries - sling in Bahasa Walikan for good measure and then you get real confusion . I don't like to sit on the outskirts of a converstaion wondering what the hell is going on - I find it frustrating .



I am a bit hurt that you don't think I am "nice" whatever that is , I am actually a very "nice" person - just somewhat misunderstood .

_________________________
I also made a vegetarian version,with tempe and tofu chunks for myself and others.Get over it.
Kosong.Wolo.Setunggal.Setunggal.Setunggal.Kosong.Pitu.Setunggal.Kosong.Wolo=Tempik

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