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#35811 - 09 Nov 06 11:15 Would you walk on this Bridge ?
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
Pooh Bah

Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
Loc: Centre of the Universe
Would you walk on this Bridge?

GLASSBRIDGE: The Glass Bridge Construction of the Skywalk began March of 2004 and is estimated to be completed by 4th quarter of 2006.

GlassBridge will be suspended 4,000 feet above the Colorado River on the very edge of the Grand Canyon. On May 2005, the final test was conducted and the structure passed engineering requirements by 400 percent, enabling it to withstand the weight of 71 fully loaded Boeing 747 airplanes (more that 71 million pounds).

The bridge will be able to sustain winds in excess of 100 miles per hour from 8 different directions, as well as an 8.0 magnitude earthquake within 50 miles. More than one million pounds of steel will go into the construction of the Grand Canyon Skywalk.












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#35813 - 09 Nov 06 11:23 Re: Would you walk on this Bridge ? [Re: KuKuKaChu]
Dilli Offline
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Registered: 26 Feb 06
Posts: 8044
Loc: Nearest Bar
I've done worse! No ploblem!
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#35814 - 09 Nov 06 12:03 Re: Would you walk on this Bridge ? [Re: Dilli]
Squirrel Offline
Member+

Registered: 05 Nov 06
Posts: 48
Nice Bridge. Designed and built by Engineers. The same fuckers who made the phone i just threw in the bin. And the laptop with a poorly designed power connection. Oh and the fucking car that broke down.


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#35816 - 09 Nov 06 12:45 Re: Would you walk on this Bridge ? [Re: Dilli]
Shesca Offline
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Registered: 12 Aug 06
Posts: 852
Loc: Jakarta
Yes, I would. In fact its safer than all bridges in Indo smile
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#35817 - 09 Nov 06 12:59 Re: Would you walk on this Bridge ? [Re: Shesca]
Polar Bear Offline
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Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Shesca honey, you are an Indonesian engineer. it sort of lets the side down a litlte when you say that, and makes users crap their daks when they use a bridge.....

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#35820 - 09 Nov 06 14:04 Re: Would you walk on this Bridge ? [Re: Polar Bear]
Capt. Mainwaring Offline
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Registered: 16 Aug 06
Posts: 3225
Loc: here
Quoting: Polar Bear
Shesca honey, you are an Indonesian engineer. it sort of lets the side down a litlte when you say that, and makes users crap their daks when they use a bridge.....


Now we are taking things to extremes - I can believe a lot , but not "Indonesian" and "Engineer" in the same sentence .

Without putting pen to paper , that thing is a hoax - if any of the scale is anywhere near right , then the suggestion that it can support 32000 MT but only withstand 100 MPH winds is crazy . The bending moment at the fulcrum would be out of this world .

So far the only "photographic evidence" and that is about as reliable as the photos of PB without his lagging on - shows a couple of micks with a transit van , two wheel barrows and a kango , stood on the edge of the Grand Canion , looking for somewhere to plug in their extension lead .

Actually a lot of the bridges in Indo aren't that bad ( OK a few are) , they are loosely based around class 60 Bailey Bridges , with double outriggers , reasonably strong , but more importantly flexible .
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I also made a vegetarian version,with tempe and tofu chunks for myself and others.Get over it.
Kosong.Wolo.Setunggal.Setunggal.Setunggal.Kosong.Pitu.Setunggal.Kosong.Wolo=Tempik

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#35822 - 09 Nov 06 14:55 Re: Would you walk on this Bridge ? [Re: Capt. Mainwaring]
Piss Salon Offline
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Registered: 27 Jun 06
Posts: 4039
Loc: Jakpus
How long after its opened till the first person suicides? I say two days. If your lucky enough to be standing next to him (and it would be a him) with a video recorder at the time, you could film his fall all the way down.
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#35823 - 09 Nov 06 15:53 Re: Would you walk on this Bridge ? [Re: Piss Salon]
Capt. Mainwaring Offline
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Registered: 16 Aug 06
Posts: 3225
Loc: here
More chance of you squeezing a whale up your arse - the thing is allegedly being built by the Ummpa Lumpa Red Indians ( the only Red Indian I know is a scottish chief - Hawk Eye the Noo )

Assuming the sweeping statement about test weight was out by a factor of 10 , the things was still tested with a weight bigger than the harmonic damper on top of 101 , and the simple box structure shown on the Ummpa Lumpa website would fold up , no torsional stiffness etc .

I'd also like to see the rigging for the test weights - if the test failed - where were the weights going ? what did they do , tie them up with string to a couple of B&Q step ladders ? They haven't even decided how or when they are going to install the glass - they can't decide what colour of mastic they are going to use - and 100mm glass ? it would take months to cast and cool sheets that thick - the Ummpa Lumpa's don't even have a road up there .

Nah , even by Indonesian standards of believing everything , this is beyond belief.
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I also made a vegetarian version,with tempe and tofu chunks for myself and others.Get over it.
Kosong.Wolo.Setunggal.Setunggal.Setunggal.Kosong.Pitu.Setunggal.Kosong.Wolo=Tempik

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#35825 - 09 Nov 06 21:15 Re: Would you walk on this Bridge ? [Re: Capt. Mainwaring]
Polar Bear Offline
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Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
We think alike James!!! I had exactly the same thoughts when I read the piece!

A fully laden 747 weighs 250 tonnes, 72 of them means 18,000 tonnes, on an unsupported overhang!!!! BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!

The bastard would survive a ChocoFart at close range, never mind 100 mph winds!

Sadly, engineers have been supplanted by accountants and marketing teams. "Cost Accounting" and "Speed to Market" matter more than quality or reliability, hence Adolphs comments about phones, laptops and cars.

The engineers don’t help themselves either. They don’t stand up for their rights, earn less than the bloody accountants and marketing gurus, and to be honest most aren’t bright.

Bridges? In 1970 a major bridge collapsed in Melbourne:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Gate_Bridge

In 1977 a road bridge collapsed in Sydney onto a fully loaded train, killing 87 people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granville_railway_disaster

Construction sites here in Sydney regularly collapse, usually killing workers.

The Institution of Engineers does its little chook dance, then everyone goes back to the same old thing.

Finally, my usual after dinner comment about the state of engineering: On the morning of 28th January 1986 a team of NASA engineers took a look at the base of the Challenger Shuttle. It was below freezing, and the right hand side booster nozzles were solidly encased in ice. To a man they shrugged shoulders and said “She is OK to go”.

A humble plumber, upon seeing a hot water system in such conditions, would have shouted “ARE YOU FUCKING MAD?”

The launch went ahead. The faulty design of the seal coupled with the ice caused by unusually cold weather, let hot gases to leak through the joint. Booster rocket flames were able to pass through the failed seal enlarging the small hole. These flames then burned through the Space Shuttle Challenger's external fuel tank and through one of the supports that attached the booster to the side of the tank. That booster broke loose and collided with the tank, piercing the tank's side. Liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen fuels from the tank and booster mixed and ignited, causing the Space Shuttle Challenger to tear apart.

I am embarrassed to be an Engineer.

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#35870 - 10 Nov 06 02:11 Re: Would you walk on this Bridge ? [Re: Polar Bear]
Shesca Offline
Member*

Registered: 12 Aug 06
Posts: 852
Loc: Jakarta
Woooo….
Seems like James Hanriaty cant get enough of PB and Shesca. Well, I was thinking, YOU should be our best man on our wedding. Anyway, I am not sure if the message was intended to be replied by myself or it was actually addressed to the open forum. Anyway, whatever it was for, I may need to give a little bit of comment. Well, you are right, Indonesian is very different than Engineer. The are two different words, of course they will have different definition. (Pardon me if I have hurt anybody’s feeling giving a short lecture about language, providing that English is NOT my first language). First of, let me clarify that I WAS an engineer. I am no longer one, due to personal reason (health, kid, etc). Well, I wouldn’t say I am an experienced engineer yet. As for this profession, experience really counts for yourself to claim as a good engineer. Just for information about my humble beginning, I happened to study in a university in US of A for this subject. Not a very famous school, Purdue University, a small uni in West Lafayette Indiana. It was lucky to be chosen as the 3rd best Civil Engineering School in the US by a magazine called US News. Well, of course it doesn’t mean anything, we have no idea what’s going on in the backdoor between the school and the magazine. But at least we know it was an established Engineering School. During my study, again I was lucky to be able to be invited to an Engineering Honor Society having received Dean’s List several semesters in a row. So I guess I did all right in school. After school, another lucky struck for me, I had three job offers one of which I decided to take, as a graduate bridge Engineer in a small consulting firm in Indiana. I was there for two years and decided to move to another small consulting firm that have more scope of work and included high rise buildings design, what I always wanted to do. I spent about 2 years there before decided to return to my home country for good (I never intended to live in the US in the first place. Indo is my one and only place I love and will spend the rest of my life at). I joined a multinational engineering firm in Indo. Spent another two years here. Most of my projects were overseas, although I was lucky again to be able to be involved in the design of a muti use complex in SCBD (now in construction). So, I guess what I m trying to say here, I did graduate as a Civil Engineer, and I did work as one, but not long enough to be called experienced.
Anyway about the bridge, I really wouldn’t call it a hoax that quickly. I have to see the size of the steel structure, and the foundation that they use in order to support the structure to really come into such conclusion. Oh, first of all it should be 32 MT not 32000 MT. I think M=mega= million? Correct me if Im wrong, again my English vocabs is quite limited.
Let me share my simple analysis about what’s going on from my point of view. Let’s simplify the whole system into a simple cantilevered beam, shall we? Going through the actual structure (arch) may take a while and I don’t have all the time in the world today being at work. Seems like what they have is a structure spanning 70 feet from the support with footing that is 40 feet deep into the ground. Quite significant and possible, but again, we have to see what kind of structural system they are using for the foundation and the beam itself. Seems like being in the USA, they will use a code called LRFD. Although when I left some were arguing the use of International code for the basis of all design. In this code, they use different kind of load combination possible to design the structure. Meaning it may include dead load(the airplane)and live load (120 ppl according to an article I read about this structure), snow load earth quake load and wind loadand the combination of them. For cantilever structure as such, the direction of the worst load will be parallel to the gravity, obviously and I will say point load located at the tip of this cantilever beam will create the worst case scenario for the structure. The wind load they used was 100 mph, which may be what the mapping of 100 year worst wind in colorado give them. It’s not too much, but they have to follow the code for that. Also, I doubt that the loadcombination with wind will be the one controlling seeing the size of dead and live load that they are using. According to my code, 130 MPH is the maximum wind speed on the table, which really wont give that much difference when being converted into load (again, considering the size of Live and Dead Load being used). So in short, the article does make sense. But again the opinion is from somebody with very limited background of Civil Engineering (I only have a Bachelor Degree, btw, which according to my professor is no longer enough nowadays. Must be the work of the Examination Board for the Structural Engineering with the schools to boost the number of graduates student. As one year after I left US they required Master degree for Professional Engineer title).
Oh, about the bridges in Indo, I may have to take my words back. My experience is not enough for me to make such judgement. I have never been involved in the designed nor construction of bridges in Indo, and you sound to know better about this than me.

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#35873 - 10 Nov 06 02:30 Re: Would you walk on this Bridge ? [Re: Shesca]
Dilli Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 26 Feb 06
Posts: 8044
Loc: Nearest Bar
M-thousand from Latin Milli....No problems, looks like you got the problem licked anyway!
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#35895 - 10 Nov 06 06:39 Re: Would you walk on this Bridge ? [Re: Dilli]
Capt. Mainwaring Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 16 Aug 06
Posts: 3225
Loc: here
Quick summary:-

I'm qualified C.Eng though I don't work in civils now

Actually MT implies Metric Tonnes - necessary as the yanks still use stoneage measurements. I try to use SI units - makes calculating accelerations and energy much easier .

Milli signifies one thousandth part - 1*10^-3 , Kilo signifies the 1*10^3 multiplier

Latin thousand is "mille" (or "milli" if your prefer) with the prefix "m"

Big "M" tends to signify Mega or 1*10^6 when used as a prefix

A fully laden 747 goes around 390 MT ( as opposed to short tons ) the rest of the maths is straightforward.

Blah blah blah cantilever blah blah blah tip load blah blah blah 40' foundations , but what about the mending moment at the time of test , what about the torsional stiffness , what about the lateral and harmonic loads caused by 210 people shuffling together - look at the glass bridge website and tell me what you see - a lump of steel pasted onto an unprepared bridge seat , no seats , no expansion , nothing .

These guys reckon the tested it with 32000 tonnes - they may have , but if they tried it , they would have exceeded the elastic limit (here we go - long time since I last did this ) Youngs modulus - stress/strain .

Yep , it might have withstood that loading , but it would have been flat down the side of the canyon like a bowspring .
What did they hold the thing down with while they tested it ? a few 1" #8 woodscrews and plasplugs ?

I don't need to rattle on about the headmaster of my university entering me in the olympics for running and frowing fings and jumping over fings (remember where that came from Dilli?) -

I reckon that this thing will just about be finished in time for your wedding with the furry one - and what better place to get married , on the tip of the glass bridge . If you start your Tabungan now , you will have enough to buy a nice house together by the time the bridge is finished .

It is the poor old Umpah Lumpahs I feel sorry for - they have already paid up front to R S Kenneddy's to build the thing .




_________________________
I also made a vegetarian version,with tempe and tofu chunks for myself and others.Get over it.
Kosong.Wolo.Setunggal.Setunggal.Setunggal.Kosong.Pitu.Setunggal.Kosong.Wolo=Tempik

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#35906 - 10 Nov 06 12:47 Re: Would you walk on this Bridge ? [Re: Capt. Mainwaring]
Shesca Offline
Member*

Registered: 12 Aug 06
Posts: 852
Loc: Jakarta
Errr... you sound like a construction worker than an engineer...
Well, they all think they are smarter than engineers anyway. But hey, thanks for the input. I dont really care that much anymore anyway since I have left that area for good. But dont worry, honey. YOU ARE INVITED!!!!
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#35908 - 10 Nov 06 15:01 Re: Would you walk on this Bridge ? [Re: Shesca]
Capt. Mainwaring Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 16 Aug 06
Posts: 3225
Loc: here
Quoting: Shesca
Errr... you sound like a construction worker than an engineer...
Well, they all think they are smarter than engineers anyway. But hey, thanks for the input. I dont really care that much anymore anyway since I have left that area for good. But dont worry, honey. YOU ARE INVITED!!!!


Bloody cheek ! While I don't object to being on the tools ( in fact now I make much more turning a spanner occasionally ) What on earth should make you say that ?

At least I know what a Metric Tonne is ! Just as well you never trained to be a Quantity Surveyor - there would be a pile of Type 1 the size of Mount Sinai instead of enough to patch a couple of manholes .

I was lucky - I was hands on before going to University so I KNOW that I can do both .

Anyhow , thankyou for your most gracious offer - I surely accept .

Guess what ? George Michaels Dad dropped in our Xmas card today , with a nice comment from George saying what beautiful daughters I had - I wonder how many people think that is Bull ?
It's true - made the wife quite proud for some reason .
_________________________
I also made a vegetarian version,with tempe and tofu chunks for myself and others.Get over it.
Kosong.Wolo.Setunggal.Setunggal.Setunggal.Kosong.Pitu.Setunggal.Kosong.Wolo=Tempik

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#35932 - 11 Nov 06 01:29 Re: Would you walk on this Bridge ? [Re: Capt. Mainwaring]
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Quoting: James Hanratty
[ George Michaels Dad dropped in our Xmas card today , with a nice comment from George saying what beautiful daughters I had - I wonder how many people think that is Bull ?
It's true - made the wife quite proud for some reason .


No james, I believe you have beautiful daughters smile

How you know George?

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#35935 - 11 Nov 06 01:47 Re: Would you walk on this Bridge ? [Re: Polar Bear]
jok Offline
Member**

Registered: 21 Mar 06
Posts: 1099
Loc: Jakarta
PB... you're so bitchy!
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#35939 - 11 Nov 06 02:23 Re: Would you walk on this Bridge ? [Re: Shesca]
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
Pooh Bah

Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
Loc: Centre of the Universe
Quoting: Shesca
Errr... you sound like a construction worker than an engineer...

bwahahahaahaa! what a bitch!!! smile
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#35958 - 11 Nov 06 05:48 Re: Would you walk on this Bridge ? [Re: jok]
Capt. Mainwaring Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 16 Aug 06
Posts: 3225
Loc: here
Quoting: Ela_K
PB... you're so bitchy!


Not necessarily Ela - Something an Indonesian cannot understand is western humour / sarcasm .

Now he may well being sarcastic - but if he was - it went over your head like an Exocet .

Have you ever met anybody interesting or famous Ela - I mean somebody a bit more famous than the Trio Kwek-kwek ? (I bet you still have their posters on your wall) - I've known George for years - I wouldn't say he requests that I sing in his backing group or pays for me to fly to events in LA , but none the less he never forgets a Xmas card . Now , over to you , does Affandy let you carry his school bag ?

Better have a bowl of Bakso before you start to think my little flower .


Edited by James Hanratty (11 Nov 06 06:13)
_________________________
I also made a vegetarian version,with tempe and tofu chunks for myself and others.Get over it.
Kosong.Wolo.Setunggal.Setunggal.Setunggal.Kosong.Pitu.Setunggal.Kosong.Wolo=Tempik

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#35961 - 11 Nov 06 06:05 Re: Would you walk on this Bridge ? [Re: KuKuKaChu]
Capt. Mainwaring Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 16 Aug 06
Posts: 3225
Loc: here
Quoting: KuKuKaChu
Quoting: Shesca
Errr... you sound like a construction worker than an engineer...

bwahahahaahaa! what a bitch!!! smile


Sorry , what was the difference between 10^3 and 10^-3 again ?
It is true , Engineering is not the place for the ladies , stick to the kitchen .

Just as well that thing wasn't designed by Female Indonesian Engineers - It would have had to have been 3M wide - not for people , but for the warungs . Still , no problem with throwing away the rubbish , but you have to climb down 4000' if you want to have a mandi .

Now that is being bitchy .
_________________________
I also made a vegetarian version,with tempe and tofu chunks for myself and others.Get over it.
Kosong.Wolo.Setunggal.Setunggal.Setunggal.Kosong.Pitu.Setunggal.Kosong.Wolo=Tempik

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#35962 - 11 Nov 06 06:15 Re: Would you walk on this Bridge ? [Re: Capt. Mainwaring]
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
LOL,

I like your female Indonesian engineers comments James. 10/10 for that smile We cou;d write a good thread on it! lol!

And I wasnt being sarcastic about your daughters. Like you, I know where the limits are. I was being serious.

How DO you know Mr Wham himself???

Ela - I wasnt being bitchy. Not my style.......

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#35981 - 11 Nov 06 22:49 Re: Would you walk on this Bridge ? [Re: Capt. Mainwaring]
Shesca Offline
Member*

Registered: 12 Aug 06
Posts: 852
Loc: Jakarta
Quoting: James Hanratty
Quoting: KuKuKaChu
Quoting: Shesca
Errr... you sound like a construction worker than an engineer...

bwahahahaahaa! what a bitch!!! smile


Sorry , what was the difference between 10^3 and 10^-3 again ?
It is true , Engineering is not the place for the ladies , stick to the kitchen .

Just as well that thing wasn't designed by Female Indonesian Engineers - It would have had to have been 3M wide - not for people , but for the warungs . Still , no problem with throwing away the rubbish , but you have to climb down 4000' if you want to have a mandi .

Now that is being bitchy .


Hahahaha... You are funny, my friend. I love your sense of humor. And the more I read about you the more I want to meet you (Goodness you wont believe how much you turn me on). How about ... errr.... Musro... err... Saturday... errr... 10 PM? May be we spend one long sexy nite discussing about the difference between Construction Worker and Engineer? That's Lady engineer im talking about. Sounds like a plan?


Edited by Shesca (11 Nov 06 22:51)
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If you can't describe what you are doing as a process, you don't know what you're doing.

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#35982 - 11 Nov 06 22:52 Re: Would you walk on this Bridge ? [Re: Shesca]
Shesca Offline
Member*

Registered: 12 Aug 06
Posts: 852
Loc: Jakarta
You wouldnt mind, right, PB babe?
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If you can't describe what you are doing as a process, you don't know what you're doing.

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#35983 - 11 Nov 06 23:44 Re: Would you walk on this Bridge ? [Re: Shesca]
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Hell no, I will pay for the beer!!!!

Anythnig that stops your over deloped libido and demands for wild sex.

Im going to hibernate or die smile

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