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#33225 - 24 Jun 06 17:50 Chinese-Indo discrimination & pribumi thugs
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
A couple months ago, my neighbor friend called, but she was crying so desperately I could hardly understand her words. She had just celebrated the arrival of the Chinese New Year for two days with all of her relatives, but the next day she was taking a short walk in our private complex in West Jakarta and a construction crew in our complex began abusing her with vile, racial and sexual insults. She had no means of stopping them or making them understand that she was a human being with feelings and dignity.

The Chinese New Year celebration was, by all accounts, a festive and safe occasion. Arguably one of the most successful Chinese cultural events in the history of this country, it has officially been declared a National Holiday and many non-Chinese-Indonesians also participated in and enjoyed the festivities. Some of the walls that have been built up over generations between Chinese-Indonesians and other ethnic groups in this country are slowly beginning to erode, and that seems as if it will improve more as years go by. Those are clearly positive developments and a real tribute to a small number of people who are working to knock those walls down, particularly statesmen like former president “Gus Dur” Wahid.

Now, however, is a good time to ponder something else. Much has been discussed regarding the dozens of laws still on the books or, in many cases, still in practice in the civil service, but removing those and enforcing them in all government offices will still take time. And there is no guarantee that the most important thing – Dignity – will be accorded Chinese-Indonesians. Too many times, I have been out with my Chinese-Indonesian friends at cafés or malls and experienced the abuse and racism endured from security men, parking attendants, taxi drivers or just a group of locals hangin’ out in the parking lot or favorite cigarette stall as we are walking to our car. Heckling, deep-cutting racial slurs and annoying, childish mocking are just a few of the things that nearly 8 million of this country’s citizens have to bear on a daily basis – every day of their lives! So, what is the response of my friends during such degrading moments; the standard one is, put your head down, shut up and walk as briskly as you can to your car. Everybody gets in the tinted-window car, locks all the doors and commences talking again, as if nothing at all had happened. Au contraire, something had happened, something very disturbing and degrading. A half dozen people were reminded for perhaps the 10th or 100th time that day, that they have no power to stop such destructive and violent abuse of their human dignity.

However, it is also somewhat understandable why Chinese-Indonesians put up with such degradation -- the decades of physical violence by the “pribumi” (‘native’ Indonesians) as well as government forces and police are still fresh in everybody’s mind on both sides of this divide. The so-called natives, particularly those from the lower-income groups, who themselves have been kicked around, robbed of their dignity by a society that has exploited them violently, kept them in poverty and never made education a priority for them, feel momentarily empowered when they can hurl abuse at defenseless people and have a laugh about it. It is classic, even clinical, transference, but seek out Freud for more on that, he can explain that whole phenomenon much better than I.

Perhaps the super rich Chinese-Indonesian tycoons with a large gang of bodyguards that usually includes police or military men and an entourage of fawning handlers, feel a measure of dignity and respect, even though I would venture to guess that even that is somewhat superficial. The sad thing is that in this milieu we live in -- this modern manifestation of the culture of thuggery -- the only thing that is respected by the majority of people is violence – or the real threat of it -- and that means the guy who runs and/or pays for the biggest mob, is the one accorded the most respect. Just have a look at the election campaigning – huge gangs of thuggish-looking characters, cruising around town, often kicking the living sh$# out of people and extorting shopkeepers. But we digress.

What about the 7.98 million other Chinese-Indonesians who are not tycoons, the ones who try as hard as they can to avoid being ridiculed and abused by locking themselves in private housing complexes and inside of sedans and SUVs, and put their kids in pricey private schools, effectively separating themselves from fellow Indonesians?

“Can’t we all just get along…” Rodney King once said referring to black-white racism in America. Several things need to happen so that people can have a semblance of respect for each other, at the very least we can live by the maxim, “If you can’t say something polite, say nothing at all.” There is absolutely nothing positive that comes from insulting other human beings, especially when he/she is a stranger who merely has certain characteristics that another group feels it has license to mock. Locals feel like it is “open season” on anyone who is not like them, particularly Chinese-Indonesians, because they know the police, their hordes of fellow kampong dwellers and the government will not side with Chinese-Indonesians if it came down to some sort of dispute. Chinese-Indonesians are afraid that if they confront or argue with those violating their dignity, they will be besieged by one of these mobs-out-of-the-woodwork whenever something exciting is afoot nearby.

Chinese-Indonesians must take back their stolen dignity, the government needs to wake up and realize this is the new millennium and immediately drop the archaic laws that discriminate against ethnic groups! And they need to seriously enforce it down to the lowest civil servant. The press must help educate the masses with a campaign of sorts to make it “hip to be polite to others”. Much like the whole PC (Political Correctness) mania in the West over the last 20 years. I have often said that PC can limit honesty, but I admit there are many more positive things, as my Canadian friend often says, “What’s so wrong with it being socially UNACCEPTABLE to insult other people?” Indeed this country owes it to itself. It is a worldwide embarrassment that we are in 2006 and there is an ethnic group of 8 million successful, faithful, family-oriented people who do not have the right to a full life, which includes dignity, in the country of their birth.

Chinese-Indonesians would be wise to vote only for candidates that guarantee they will fight for equality, and they need to stand up to the abuse, if by no other means than stop, confront abusive people in an assertive tone and tell them that it is inappropriate behavior for civilized humans, which is what I did after my friend called. My courage of course, was fueled by rage, but I, (a California who has lived in SE Asia for 15 years -- not a naive, neophyte bule) stayed as calm as possible, and sternly told the construction crew, that they were wrong and that it must never happen again. They all nodded in a semblance of agreement and shock and went back to their construction site. My dignity was restored momentarily, but not my friend’s. She was worried about the consequences. One consequence may be that she can walk down her street and hold her head high, but, of course, it is up to her and to the local construction guys to make their own decisions to raise their own level of dignity.

Government and religious leaders as well as journalists that have the qualities of true statespersons (there’s some good PC-ese) need not feel threatened by greater equality for a group of people, who quite possibly are the most educated and hard-working in the country, as well as people with a deep sense of loyalty to true friends. It can only mean good things for the country in the future. Maybe all the bright Chinese-Indonesian doctors, lawyers, economists, computer experts, scientists and professors would not have to go overseas to Singapore, Australia, Europe or North America to get the jobs and respect they deserve. Instead of contributing great things to those already developed places, why not make them feel welcome in their own country, so they can help here? Then again there probably are some people (extremist nationalists) here who still somehow believe this country does not need help in those fields.
_________________________
Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

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#33226 - 24 Jun 06 18:13 Re: Chinese-Indo discrimination & pribumi thugs
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
Pooh Bah

Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
Loc: Centre of the Universe
i have little disagreement with what you've written here about "primbumi"-chinese relations. hoever, to what extent have chinese indonesians bought at least some of this upon themselves? i find it hard to believe they -- as a group -- are blameless for the current situation. of course, these things tend to be self-perpetuating vicious cycles. nonetheless, chinese indonesian efforts to repair relations with non-chinese indonesians have been negligible.
_________________________
KuKuKaChu: dangerously too sophisticated

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#33227 - 24 Jun 06 19:27 Re: Chinese-Indo discrimination & pribumi thugs
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
i'm afraid it's the old 'chicken-and-egg' conundrum Mr. K. Would they really lock themselves in their own prisons (housing complexes and SUVs) if they felt truly safe and respected?
_________________________
Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

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#33228 - 24 Jun 06 19:33 Re: Chinese-Indo discrimination & pribumi thugs
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Quote:
Originally posted by KuKuKaChu:
i have little disagreement with what you've written here about "primbumi"-chinese relations. hoever, to what extent have chinese indonesians bought at least some of this upon themselves? i find it hard to believe they -- as a group -- are blameless for the current situation.
Shit KuKu, i will make a right wing racist of you yet smile

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#33229 - 24 Jun 06 20:26 Re: Chinese-Indo discrimination & pribumi thugs
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
Pooh Bah

Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
Loc: Centre of the Universe
Quote:
Originally posted by The One and Only Polar Bear:
Quote:
Originally posted by KuKuKaChu:
i have little disagreement with what you've written here about "primbumi"-chinese relations. hoever, to what extent have chinese indonesians bought at least some of this upon themselves? i find it hard to believe they -- as a group -- are blameless for the current situation.
Shit KuKu, i will make a right wing racist of you yet smile
ah, but i'm an enigma. wink the right-wing, left-wing dichotomy does not fit well on me. most of all when it comes to matters of culture and race.

i anyone asks me, "are you a rascist?", i would always answer in the affirmative, to the extent that i often discriminate on the basis of skin colour, culture or national origins. and i think most people if they were really honest would admit to this as well. we all discriminate. rationally or irrationally, this is what we humans do.

all that i hope is that my particular racism is not too oppressive, and that i can suspend it long enough to give individuals a fair go.

despite my left-wing creds, and the fact that i am a sociologist of the culturalist perspective, i have never had any time for so-called multiculturalism of many western nations. i consider it fraudulent and dishonest. populations, with all their prejudices, should have the right to determine who will and who will not live amongst them. forcing multiculturalism down the throats of populations in the mistaken belief that it is "good" for them is a kind of fascism that we can all do without.
_________________________
KuKuKaChu: dangerously too sophisticated

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#33230 - 25 Jun 06 08:54 Re: Chinese-Indo discrimination & pribumi thugs
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
You know KuKu, in the early 80s I became involved with some right wing extremist groups in the UK. I joined because of the situation in Belfast, but the groups had many agendas, including racists ones.

I found the bottom layer to be just thugs with no ideas or brains. But above them were a group of very clever men who argued well in defence of what they did. They could quote facts and figures, they could argue persuasively and strongly. I still stand by much of what they said, and much of what they predicted has come true.

Unfortunately they were tainted with a racist label, so no one ever really listened to what they said.

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#33231 - 25 Jun 06 21:33 Re: Chinese-Indo discrimination & pribumi thugs
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Hitler would have said the same thing about jews.....

"THEY BOUGHT IT ON THEMSELVES"

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#33232 - 26 Jun 06 03:26 Re: Chinese-Indo discrimination & pribumi thugs
hanabi Offline
Member+++

Registered: 11 Mar 06
Posts: 436
Loc: Here and there...
LOL! Either it's a troll or a flame... But why did the moderator need it anyway? Blah!

I would understand if you want to raise awareness, but your racist comments could improve nothing. It's easy to come to stereotypes. You made it sound like Hutus and Tutsis, Israelis and Palestinians. Why don't you go to China and help poor Tibetans and Uyghurs from Chinese repression? Life may never be fair, but at least you can try to put things fair and proportionately.

Quote:
Too many times, I have been out with my Chinese-Indonesian friends at cafés or malls and experienced the abuse and racism endured from security men, parking attendants, taxi drivers or just a group of locals hangin’ out in the parking lot or favorite cigarette stall as we are walking to our car. Heckling, deep-cutting racial slurs and annoying, childish mocking are just a few of the things that nearly 8 million of this country’s citizens have to bear on a daily basis – every day of their lives!
I do have many first experiences related to Chinese-pribumi relations and none of those ever happened. Of course stereotypes play a role. Those classifications of western, Chinese, and pribumi, are created during the era of colonialism. And now around 75% of capital in Indonesia is controlled by Chinese Indonesians and part of it came from the policy under Soeharto regime, like military on one hand and Chinese Indonesian businessmen on the other hand. It's easy to have resentment, hatred, and frictions arise. But my point is that people are treated more from their personalities rather than races. Maybe you were just a bunch of cocky snobs. You built your own wall, first class wall where you can live comfortably, and then now you're bitching around about the wall.

Quote:
Chinese-Indonesians must take back their stolen dignity,
Duh! Sorry if you feel victimized, but help yourself! Dignity comes from within! The only dignity and freedom stolen belongs to the poor with lack of access to education and health.

Quote:
Maybe all the bright Chinese-Indonesian doctors, lawyers, economists, computer experts, scientists and professors would not have to go overseas to Singapore, Australia, Europe or North America to get the jobs and respect they deserve.
Why not? Think global! Who needs borders anyway? And who deserves what? I wonder if somebody needs to cry out loud to get respected... Respect others, and then you'll get respected.

Quote:
Instead of contributing great things to those already developed places, why not make them feel welcome in their own country, so they can help here?
Sounds like you're the one being nationalistic. It's soooooo... outdated! No offense... wink

Bed time! Good night! smile
_________________________
Crossing the bridge of reason... "Let the lover be disgraceful, crazy, absentminded. Someone sober will worry about things going badly. Let the lover be."

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#33233 - 26 Jun 06 10:12 Re: Chinese-Indo discrimination & pribumi thugs
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
As I said, many years ago I was a member of some racist right wing organisations.

A few years ago a country store in rural Australia ignored my Chinese girlfriend. She took it on the chin, but I could see the embarrassment in her eyes. She was born in Australia….

I have never felt more awful in my life.

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#33234 - 26 Jun 06 11:03 Re: Chinese-Indo discrimination & pribumi thugs
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
Hanabi, I'm not sure who you are directing your comments at, like this one:

"I'm sorry if you feel victimized"

It is not me that is victimized, I am just relating my firsthand witnessing of these things. And it really doesn't sound like your are sincere when you say you are sorry.

I could go on, but it's clear that you do already understand this sickening injustice, yet are just making a feeble attempt, for some reason, to make it seem like these things don't happen.

So, what is your real point? Trying to deny the truth? Sweeping it under the carpet? Attack the person, who points out a societal issue? You see those things will never result in improvements .
_________________________
Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

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#33235 - 26 Jun 06 11:22 Re: Chinese-Indo discrimination & pribumi thugs
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Lets stop this now people.

Racism is a bad thing.

Sometimes the victims themselves don’t help end racism with their attitude and behaviour.

No point in arguing here about it. The message is simple. Be nicer to each other, treat them as human beings, whatever race they are.

There is only one race – the Human Race. And I always come last smile smile

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#33236 - 26 Jun 06 11:41 Re: Chinese-Indo discrimination & pribumi thugs
Magpie Offline
Member**

Registered: 29 Mar 06
Posts: 1306
Loc: The Toon
Quote:
Originally posted by riccardo:
she was taking a short walk in our private complex in West Jakarta and a construction crew in our complex began abusing her with vile, racial and sexual insults. She had no means of stopping them or making them understand that she was a human being with feelings and dignity.

the only thing that is respected by the majority of people is violence – or the real threat of it -- and that means the guy who runs and/or pays for the biggest mob, is the one accorded the most respect.
My courage of course, was fueled by rage, but I, (a California who has lived in SE Asia for 15 years -- not a naive, neophyte bule) stayed as calm as possible, and sternly told the construction crew, that they were wrong and that it must never happen again. They all nodded in a semblance of agreement and shock and went back to their construction site. My dignity was restored momentarily, but not my friend’s.
I think this post was wonderful to read, personally. I have never experienced a display of such toward Chinese-Indonesians, however I (and my wife) have been subjected to the low-brow insult of the "perek" type, simply because she is with a bule. It hurts her, it hurts me, and it takes a lot of effort not to react in a typical "Geordie thug" way. All I can do is rise above it, because at the end of the day if I involve myself in the way I would like to, it will be me sitting in a jail cell bribing police officers to get me out. Shame, but it's not going to stop me living there, and perhaps I can work toward a little education of a few.....time will tell.
_________________________
"People say funny things......."

Peter Kay

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#33237 - 26 Jun 06 11:48 Re: Chinese-Indo discrimination & pribumi thugs
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
Quote:
Originally posted by The One and Only Polar Bear:
The message is simple. Be nicer to each other, treat them as human beings, whatever race they are.
Here, here!
_________________________
Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

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#33238 - 26 Jun 06 11:51 Re: Chinese-Indo discrimination & pribumi thugs
Magpie Offline
Member**

Registered: 29 Mar 06
Posts: 1306
Loc: The Toon
Also, just out of interest, is this particular way of treating chinese-indonesians generally witnessed in Jakarta or throughout the land? I dont know enough about the population spread of chinese throughtout Indonesia....(I also had to look the work Neophyte up, it had "Magpie" listed next to it smile )Obviously there are Chinese-Indo's in Bandung (in fact our school's driver was), but due to only being there 6 months, and trying to get to grips with a family, a new lanuguage, a new job and the general hetic life that hits you after the peace and tranquility NZ offers you, I really didnt get a chance to look at Indonesia in-depth, asides from scouring The Jakarta Post everyday. Kuku....your probably best qualified to answer this.
_________________________
"People say funny things......."

Peter Kay

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#33239 - 26 Jun 06 12:00 Re: Chinese-Indo discrimination & pribumi thugs
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
Pooh Bah

Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
Loc: Centre of the Universe
Quote:
Originally posted by Magpie:
Kuku....your probably best qualified to answer this.
i would not profess any particular qualification in this matter. i have thoughts and feelings on the matter, and so do many other people. in the matter of racial prejudice, i do not claim to be some liberal angel. and in the specific case of chinese indonesians, i admit to harbouring deep prejudice. this is the result of my exposure to this group in the field of business in indonesia. nonetheless, i still have my fair share of indonesian chinese friends, who i rationalise as being "exceptions to the rule".
_________________________
KuKuKaChu: dangerously too sophisticated

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#33240 - 26 Jun 06 12:05 Re: Chinese-Indo discrimination & pribumi thugs
Magpie Offline
Member**

Registered: 29 Mar 06
Posts: 1306
Loc: The Toon
Riccardo, would you care to try and answer.....

"Also, just out of interest, is this particular way of treating chinese-indonesians generally witnessed in Jakarta or throughout the land?"
_________________________
"People say funny things......."

Peter Kay

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#33241 - 26 Jun 06 12:24 Re: Chinese-Indo discrimination & pribumi thugs
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
While I haven't done a scientific survey, it seems to be problem in varying degrees in many parts of the archipelago where there is also a strong religious dichotomy -- Makassar comes to mind. On the other hand, while I was in East Timor pre-independence, the local "asli" Timorese and Chinese shopkeepers got along great, mind you both groups are Catholic. And the Timorese had other "enemies" at the time.
But finally, there are millions of truly good people here that do respect others and there are a handful of bad people in every group -- but they often make the headlines.
_________________________
Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

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#33242 - 26 Jun 06 14:21 Re: Chinese-Indo discrimination & pribumi thugs
hanabi Offline
Member+++

Registered: 11 Mar 06
Posts: 436
Loc: Here and there...
Quote:
And it really doesn't sound like your are sincere when you say you are sorry.
Riccardo! Hehe... Of course not! I was only being cynical. Apologize... smile The thing is that I couldn't find fairness in your statements.

Quote:
Attack the person, who points out a societal issue? You see those things will never result in improvements .
Again, apologize. A friend said that I could be so judgmental, but only to judgmental people. Thought you were the one who started attacking people, the locals, the pribumi. And that's what I was trying to say, that your statements couldn't result in any improvements either. Speaking about facts and truths, since when a couple of Chinese Indonesian friends you have represent the 8 million of Chinese Indonesians and a couple of construction crews represent all pribumi.

Quote:
I could go on, but it's clear that you do already understand this sickening injustice, yet are just making a feeble attempt, for some reason, to make it seem like these things don't happen.
Of course I know about injustice, maybe since I was born as a woman. But why don't you find the roots of the problem instead of nagging about the upper class facilities (SUV, houses, private schools), and you made them sound like horrible prisons. It was you who dichotomized people into Chinese Indonesians and the pribumi, the good and the wicked.

Quote:
So, what is your real point? Trying to deny the truth? Sweeping it under the carpet?
Find the real problem! I can always bring up the issues that Chinese can be indicatively so racist, but what's the point. If you'd like to learn more, maybe you can read some research papers about horizontal inequality by Frances Stewart.

Btw, when I do something bad to you, it's really about me and myself, and there's nothing to do with you. So stop being paranoid. Injustice is sickening, and so is paranoia.

Still I always have to reassess my common sense. My Aries elements always make me think that most people are dickheads, but personally I also think that I'm a dickhead. So again, nothing personal, no offense! laugh

Quote:
Racism is a bad thing.

Sometimes the victims themselves don’t help end racism with their attitude and behaviour.

No point in arguing here about it. The message is simple. Be nicer to each other, treat them as human beings, whatever race they are.
PB, I'm surprised that you've got such a nice thing to say and I can't agree more with you. wink
_________________________
Crossing the bridge of reason... "Let the lover be disgraceful, crazy, absentminded. Someone sober will worry about things going badly. Let the lover be."

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#33243 - 26 Jun 06 15:01 Re: Chinese-Indo discrimination & pribumi thugs
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Quote:
Originally posted by Magpie:
Quote:
Originally posted by riccardo:
she was taking a short walk in our private complex in West Jakarta and a construction crew in our complex began abusing her with vile, racial and sexual insults. She had no means of stopping them or making them understand that she was a human being with feelings and dignity.

the only thing that is respected by the majority of people is violence – or the real threat of it -- and that means the guy who runs and/or pays for the biggest mob, is the one accorded the most respect.
My courage of course, was fueled by rage, but I, (a California who has lived in SE Asia for 15 years -- not a naive, neophyte bule) stayed as calm as possible, and sternly told the construction crew, that they were wrong and that it must never happen again. They all nodded in a semblance of agreement and shock and went back to their construction site. My dignity was restored momentarily, but not my friend’s.
I think this post was wonderful to read, personally. I have never experienced a display of such toward Chinese-Indonesians, however I (and my wife) have been subjected to the low-brow insult of the "perek" type, simply because she is with a bule. It hurts her, it hurts me, and it takes a lot of effort not to react in a typical "Geordie thug" way. All I can do is rise above it, because at the end of the day if I involve myself in the way I would like to, it will be me sitting in a jail cell bribing police officers to get me out. Shame, but it's not going to stop me living there, and perhaps I can work toward a little education of a few.....time will tell.
Guys, I understand exactly what you mean.

Anyone can be as rude as they like to me. It flows off my back, and I can be rude, or funny, back. But when it is directed to someone who is old, or a female, or worst of all to a child, I cannot handle it.

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#33244 - 26 Jun 06 15:06 Re: Chinese-Indo discrimination & pribumi thugs
Macan Tutul Offline
Pujangga Muda

Registered: 02 Dec 05
Posts: 1502
Loc: Jungle and cage ;)
Quote:
Originally posted by The One and Only Polar Bear:
Lets stop this now people.

Racism is a bad thing.

Sometimes the victims themselves don’t help end racism with their attitude and behaviour.

No point in arguing here about it. The message is simple. Be nicer to each other, treat them as human beings, whatever race they are.

There is only one race – the Human Race. And I always come last smile smile
PB, this post was so wonderful I like it a lot.

Mr. Riccardo I don't mean to teaching you or whatsoever and Im sorry if there is will insult you etc..... but I guess Intolerant attitude between individuals and groups sometimes still happen in some cases, it’s because of racial motivations, ideology, politics or religion. There was 2 concept of interpretation:

Negative interpretation of tolerance
The tolerance just a sign that enough with let it be and not harm the other group/the other individual.

Positive interpretation of tolerance
The tolerance needs more than this, it needs kind of help and support to the people/group existence, but this positive interpretation only could happen in a situation where the object from tolerance is not blamable as a moral and it’s kind of something which can’t be erase just like a case in a racial tolerance.

Just looked back at the case on May 1998…..separated from the possibility from the bared of plot or still become a tragedy of mystery there was a spirit and wish form all of side to “cooling down” the hard situation in INA. But of course it slowly. Accepting the Tionghoa ethnic with all their lack and their cultural abundance just like we understand and accepting from all of the various culture in INA, so in a social life we avoid from culture concussion then so the ethnic from Chinese should accepting the reality of this cultural country so the Chinese ethnic will free from “bizarre conditionally and confusing” which never force or act to the other ethnic in this country.
_________________________
" Don't be shy with yourself, you have lots of talent without you notice....that's human, just be who you are."

(Memoirs of 3/3/2007)

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#33245 - 26 Jun 06 15:19 Re: Chinese-Indo discrimination & pribumi thugs
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
I can be VERY nice to you MT.

smile smile

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#33246 - 26 Jun 06 15:23 Re: Chinese-Indo discrimination & pribumi thugs
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
It's wonderful that this kind of discussion, on such a sensitive, often verboten subject, can be aired here. Good on ya Jakchatters!
_________________________
Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

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#33247 - 26 Jun 06 15:28 Re: Chinese-Indo discrimination & pribumi thugs
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Quote:
Originally posted by riccardo:
It's wonderful that this kind of discussion, on such a sensitive, often verboten subject, can be aired here. Good on ya Jakchatters!
Any girl can chat to Mister sausage here, or in a hotel room. Most certainly not verboten smile

Girls chatting to Mr Sausage

Oh Adolph, you are looking so long today
Yummy yummy
Have you been a naughty sausage in Poland again?
Lick lick lick
Hmmm you are cold. How was Stalingrad?

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#33248 - 26 Jun 06 15:31 Re: Chinese-Indo discrimination & pribumi thugs
Macan Tutul Offline
Pujangga Muda

Registered: 02 Dec 05
Posts: 1502
Loc: Jungle and cage ;)
PB your comment :

" But when it is directed to someone who is old, or a female, or worst of all to a child, I cannot handle it."

I like it!!!! Again...sometimes you make surprise touch.... smile we can lick each other PB....
smile

Mr. Riccardo.....we like to discuss about everything just post it smile
_________________________
" Don't be shy with yourself, you have lots of talent without you notice....that's human, just be who you are."

(Memoirs of 3/3/2007)

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#33249 - 26 Jun 06 15:31 Re: Chinese-Indo discrimination & pribumi thugs
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
Uh can we keep this thread "on topic"

I think the food and drink section is in another area...
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Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

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