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#31307 - 17 Jul 06 02:18 Random thoughts on life
hanabi Offline
Member+++

Registered: 11 Mar 06
Posts: 436
Loc: Here and there...
My own fault... I just had coffee and can't sleep. Anyway, this is not another existential crisis, ok! I'm happy with the paradox... wink

I didn't read the content, but I remember the title of an article says "I think therefore I am". Yeah, you may create your own world whose boundaries are all of your thoughts. However, I tend to say the opposite, that "I am therefore I think". I imagine that whether or not I think, the ultimate reality still exists. My brain can only justify and try to rationalize the reality, like the meaning of life, etc.

Can we share the same reality? Some may say yes at first stage and no at the second stage. It's possible to share some simple ones like the sun rises in the east, but in the end of the day, one has one's own reality because each individual is unique. Nevertheless, many don't recognize this uniqueness nature so they claim the truth for themselves and higher authorities among others.

And now I'm thinking of the third stage where the ultimate reality reveals itself without anyone looks for it. This is when everyone has no more room to reason and becomes the object or even less than that, the shadow of reality... laugh
_________________________
Crossing the bridge of reason... "Let the lover be disgraceful, crazy, absentminded. Someone sober will worry about things going badly. Let the lover be."

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#31308 - 17 Jul 06 09:06 Re: Random thoughts on life
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Interesting…..

A few years ago I wrote a paper on Truth, Reality and Perception, based loosely upon Bertrand Russells work on definitive descriptions.

I would recommend a read of his book “The Problems of Philosophy” – its on line at

http://www.ditext.com/russell/russell.html


In short – something exists (truth) because we recognise it (perception) – but this does not necessarily mean it really exists (reality).

Interesting subject. Anyone care to comment…..

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#31309 - 17 Jul 06 14:04 Re: Random thoughts on life
Macan Tutul Offline
Pujangga Muda

Registered: 02 Dec 05
Posts: 1502
Loc: Jungle and cage ;)
What should do about crisis identity????
_________________________
" Don't be shy with yourself, you have lots of talent without you notice....that's human, just be who you are."

(Memoirs of 3/3/2007)

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#31310 - 17 Jul 06 14:30 Re: Random thoughts on life
D'ruby Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 13 Feb 06
Posts: 2177
Loc: My
MT, are u ok?
_________________________
I wanna be Samantha, but I am so Carrie

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#31311 - 17 Jul 06 14:38 Re: Random thoughts on life
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
MT please PM me ASAP.

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#31312 - 17 Jul 06 15:00 Re: Random thoughts on life
hanabi Offline
Member+++

Registered: 11 Mar 06
Posts: 436
Loc: Here and there...
What's up MT babe? Life is still great, isn't it? Smile! smile

PB honey! Just checked the link out and whooooaaaaa... :rolleyes: You know I'm way too lazy to read. I need to find a way to motivate myself. How about your sausage?? :p

Actually I was thinking about you when I talked about the second stage since you always indicated the needs of higher authority, such as you and your guns, to control people. Hehe...! But you also have realized that the sources of conflicts and wars come from this stage. Anyway, this stage is inline with your conclusion, "something exists (truth) because we recognise it (perception) – but this does not necessarily mean it really exists (reality)".

So I was wondering if you could imagine further to the next stage where everyone is lead by intuition beyond one's perception. Again, no more perception as if "I think therefore I am". This is to know that it is just because it is and therefore it is. Where does this intuition come from? Let's say it is the ultimate reality. You've created your own reality, and this time it's the reality that has created you. This reality becomes the only authority and you become part of its nature. Your movements, your thoughts, and everything about you follow this nature. wink
_________________________
Crossing the bridge of reason... "Let the lover be disgraceful, crazy, absentminded. Someone sober will worry about things going badly. Let the lover be."

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#31313 - 17 Jul 06 15:15 Re: Random thoughts on life
Jokie Jokie Girl Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 07 Nov 05
Posts: 2552
Loc: Central Jakarta
Quote:
Originally posted by Macan Tutul:
What should do about crisis identity????
you meant, you're crisis of confidence???
well MT, just be your self....don't ever try to be some body else, don't ever force something to do..
_________________________
"I am the Island girl, born with the humble life, eat on the floor with the right hand"

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#31314 - 17 Jul 06 15:16 Re: Random thoughts on life
Macan Tutul Offline
Pujangga Muda

Registered: 02 Dec 05
Posts: 1502
Loc: Jungle and cage ;)
Thank you for your concern guys....thank you....is just when I need to "fix" & little bit "lost" smile
_________________________
" Don't be shy with yourself, you have lots of talent without you notice....that's human, just be who you are."

(Memoirs of 3/3/2007)

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#31315 - 17 Jul 06 15:34 Re: Random thoughts on life
Jokie Jokie Girl Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 07 Nov 05
Posts: 2552
Loc: Central Jakarta
my booby, what's make you crisis identity...
a men? a guy? a bule? a fucking bule?
tendang aja! haaajaaar dia! wink laugh
_________________________
"I am the Island girl, born with the humble life, eat on the floor with the right hand"

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#31316 - 17 Jul 06 16:19 Re: Random thoughts on life
Ena Offline
Member*

Registered: 26 Nov 05
Posts: 765
Loc: Sydney
whats going on has it turned into mensa convention in here PB and hanabi? I need a brain transplant to keep up!
Ok back to my infantile world of annoying my husband with Hole " boys on the radio" music and avril lavigne music... laugh laugh shocked
_________________________
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=bIEOZCcaXzE

..take only what you need..

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#31317 - 17 Jul 06 16:33 Re: Random thoughts on life
Magda Offline
Member+

Registered: 17 Jul 06
Posts: 33
Loc: Bali, Indonesia
Quote:
Originally posted by Macan Tutul:
What should do about crisis identity????
virgos are always having identity crises ... they are mercurians; they reflect reality rather than being realty ...

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#31318 - 17 Jul 06 16:41 Re: Random thoughts on life
Macan Tutul Offline
Pujangga Muda

Registered: 02 Dec 05
Posts: 1502
Loc: Jungle and cage ;)
Magda babe, how do you know Im a Virgoans? smile I can't imagine fantasy though frown
_________________________
" Don't be shy with yourself, you have lots of talent without you notice....that's human, just be who you are."

(Memoirs of 3/3/2007)

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#31319 - 17 Jul 06 16:44 Re: Random thoughts on life
Macan Tutul Offline
Pujangga Muda

Registered: 02 Dec 05
Posts: 1502
Loc: Jungle and cage ;)
Quote:
Originally posted by The One and Only Jokie Jokie Girl:
my booby, what's make you crisis identity...
a men? a guy? a bule? a fucking bule?
tendang aja! haaajaaar dia! wink laugh
smile Thanks my love, but it's not about guy, bule guy...etc...its about entire life wink
_________________________
" Don't be shy with yourself, you have lots of talent without you notice....that's human, just be who you are."

(Memoirs of 3/3/2007)

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#31320 - 17 Jul 06 16:48 Re: Random thoughts on life
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Rene Descartes was a Rationalist. His famous statement “Cognito ergo sum”, (I think, therefore I am), was intended to indicate that the only thing that a man can be certain of, was his own existence.

Modern day life would show his challenges. I recently had a face to face meeting with Chocolatea. It was eerie, like meeting a character from a manga comic. It was proof that at least she existed. Or at least an apparition before me appeared to exist. Since I cannot think for her, I cannot be certain of her existence.

Watch the Matrix to see a classic example of how Descartes theory could be demonstrated….

Intuition is more complex. Do we lead our lives, or are they part of a grand plan from which we cannot deviate.

We cannot control time, for instance. But does time really exist?

A butterfly that lives for only a day, thinks every second is a day, every minute is a year.

A new born baby, who has lived for less than a minute, sees that minute as a lifetime.

So does life, like time itself, follow an unstoppable plan, with only our perception of it any means of control.

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#31321 - 17 Jul 06 17:55 Re: Random thoughts on life
Choc_Cow Offline
Member**

Registered: 25 May 06
Posts: 1200
Loc: Di Puncak
Quote:
Originally posted by The One and Only Polar Bear:
We cannot control time, for instance. But does time really exist?

A butterfly that lives for only a day, thinks every second is a day, every minute is a year.

A new born baby, who has lived for less than a minute, sees that minute as a lifetime.

So does life, like time itself, follow an unstoppable plan, with only our perception of it any means of control.
aaaaaaaaaaarghh I sure hope that time does exist, and only our perception of measure differ, it's too scary for me to think otherwise .. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

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#31322 - 17 Jul 06 18:01 Re: Random thoughts on life
hanabi Offline
Member+++

Registered: 11 Mar 06
Posts: 436
Loc: Here and there...
Yeah, it was Rene Descartes. I read the statement when I was browsing about serendipity a few days ago. I know very little about philosophers so I can't respond with other theories. Maybe I'll read that Bertrand Russel's stuff later. But it's interesting to know the way you exemplify. Can you prove the 1-3 mins of Choco babe? laugh

Why does one develop a theory with lots of assumptions, hypothesis, parameters, models... Maybe because one can't deal with uncontrollable reality. Rather than theories, I feel more comfortable with poems since they never try to control reality.

Quote:
We cannot control time, for instance. But does time really exist?
Time is of life. When life exists, so does time.

Quote:
So does life, like time itself, follow an unstoppable plan, with only our perception of it any means of control.
Do you believe in free will? One is derived by instincts, reasons, and intuitions. You can choose any ways you want to live your life. Stay with reasons if you prefer being full of control. But will you be able to reach the reality? There are so many big questions you can't answer. Reasons are limited by your perception and your perception becomes your prison. Intuition is to free you from your prison. It's another paradox. You'll be free by giving up your authority to control your reality.
_________________________
Crossing the bridge of reason... "Let the lover be disgraceful, crazy, absentminded. Someone sober will worry about things going badly. Let the lover be."

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#31323 - 17 Jul 06 18:01 Re: Random thoughts on life
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
There is a serious philosophical line of thought that argues that time does not exist. That everything happens at the same time. We simply create time because our tiny minds cannot comprehend matters unless we have order.

http://www.rzuser.uni-heidelberg.de/~as3/time-direction/Ch1.pdf

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#31324 - 18 Jul 06 10:41 Re: Random thoughts on life
Macan Tutul Offline
Pujangga Muda

Registered: 02 Dec 05
Posts: 1502
Loc: Jungle and cage ;)
Well what about when you had to be "giving up" to what we called authority to control our own life?

When somebody or them force you to be kind of "rag doll" ???

Fact the reality that you should living in a big lie actually deep down inside you screaming out loud and want to tell the truth but there always be "fences" out there?
_________________________
" Don't be shy with yourself, you have lots of talent without you notice....that's human, just be who you are."

(Memoirs of 3/3/2007)

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#31325 - 18 Jul 06 10:46 Re: Random thoughts on life
Balibob Offline
Member**

Registered: 14 Jun 06
Posts: 1066
Loc: Bali
Time is the "fence" and it does control our lives,.if there was no time controls then our lives and the world would be chaos and instantly it would distruct,....BOOM and then nothing left
_________________________
There is no love sincerer,.. than the love of food

(George Bernard Shaw)

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#31326 - 18 Jul 06 12:29 Re: Random thoughts on life
hanabi Offline
Member+++

Registered: 11 Mar 06
Posts: 436
Loc: Here and there...
MT babe, what did you mean? The situation you described is about a society where people living there are still derived by instincts, like fears, angers, and paranoia... It's still far from reason and intuition. First, be true and liberate yourself! The enlightenment will follow you... wink
_________________________
Crossing the bridge of reason... "Let the lover be disgraceful, crazy, absentminded. Someone sober will worry about things going badly. Let the lover be."

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#31327 - 19 Jul 06 08:34 Re: Random thoughts on life
hanabi Offline
Member+++

Registered: 11 Mar 06
Posts: 436
Loc: Here and there...
Although it's not definitive, it seems like to a physicist, time is mechanistic, to a biologist, time is organic, to a Balibob, time is a fence, to PB, time doesn't exist because he lives in a timeless and nonexistence space...

To me, time is living me, time is my life, time is love... wink
_________________________
Crossing the bridge of reason... "Let the lover be disgraceful, crazy, absentminded. Someone sober will worry about things going badly. Let the lover be."

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#31328 - 19 Jul 06 10:21 Re: Random thoughts on life
Macan Tutul Offline
Pujangga Muda

Registered: 02 Dec 05
Posts: 1502
Loc: Jungle and cage ;)
Thank you so much Hanabi babe....thank you...I really, really appreciated smile smile smile
_________________________
" Don't be shy with yourself, you have lots of talent without you notice....that's human, just be who you are."

(Memoirs of 3/3/2007)

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#31329 - 29 Jul 06 22:50 Re: Random thoughts on life
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Quote:
Originally posted by Macan Tutul:
Well what about when you had to be "giving up" to what we called authority to control our own life?

When somebody or them force you to be kind of "rag doll" ???

Fact the reality that you should living in a big lie actually deep down inside you screaming out loud and want to tell the truth but there always be "fences" out there?
Having banished myself to the other side of the intellectual fence:

Descartes was probably best “foiled” (in a fencing analogy) by Arnould – his “Art of thinking” consisted of four tenets: Conceiving, Judging, Reasoning and Ordering.

And herein lies your answer MT: So long as you reason your life to be a lie, then you are embodying the truth.

In August 1632 the astronomer Galileo was ordered to stand trial for arguing that the world was not flat, but indeed round. Pope Urban VIII confined him to prison until his death ten years later. Galileo, one of the most brilliant minds the world has ever seen, was forced under threat of torture to agree that the world was flat, and not round as he had suggested in paper “Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief Systems of the World-Ptolemaic and Copernican”……

Being forced to state that the world was flat did not make it so. Whatever lie you are forced to live remains a lie.

Living a lie does not make it the truth.

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