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#30217 - 22 Apr 06 09:23 Depok follows Tangerang with bylaws
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Depok hashing out own 'morality' bylaw


Anissa S. Febrina, The Jakarta Post, Jakarta

Recent strong winds in Greater Jakarta bore not only clouds of dust but something as heavy as a morality campaign.

Only four months after a bylaw on prostitution and the sale of alcoholic drinks came into effect in Tangerang, Banten, council members in Depok, West Java, said their administration needed a similar ordinance.

While the draft is copied directly from Tangerang's, Depok's ordinance also would criminalize adultery and homosexuality, councillor Achmad Dahlan said.

Tangerang's morality ordinance is being revised because its implementation created problems -- like the arrests of innocents during nighttime raids because of its vague definitions -- instead of contributing to the development of a responsible, honest and religious society.

"It's ridiculous. What if a meeting ends late and we have to walk home? Are they going to arrest us, too?" said Anindya Trisaktya, a second-year student at Gunadarma University in Depok.

Anin expressed concern that aside from wrongful arrests, the bylaw could easily be abused. "Just like when the police ticket us," she said to the approval of her friends.

From an idyllic suburb, Depok grew quickly into a bustling metropolis after the University of Indonesia and many private universities moved their campuses there. Businesses did well largely because of the high number of young people in the area.

Meanwhile, another group of young people said it was about time their city had such an ordinance.

"In a number of dormitories here, you will find unmarried couples living together," said 20-year-old Wisnu Murdito.

"Several religious organizations have expressed concern about these problems. The rate of drinking-related crimes and prostitution has not yet increased. This is about anticipating such a time, and we need to make it (the ordinance) a priority," said Dahlan who sits on Depok City Council Commission A for public order.

Council deputy speaker Amri Yusra said more research and discussion with the public was needed to make the right ordinance for Depok.

"We are also aware we should define more clearly what we mean by prostitution and alcoholic drinks," Amri said. "We will do it carefully and in consultation with more people."

Separately, sociologist Ida Ruwaida said a legal approach to discouraging immoral behavior was not the answer.

"If they are concerned about college students having sex in their lodgings, then need to educate them rather than repress them," she said.

"If prostitution becomes more prevalent, then they should look at the existing social control mechanisms."

Ida added the council and administration should prioritize more urgent matters concerning public service.

"Depok has mounting problems like infrastructure, garbage and high unemployment," she said. "And furthermore, if we are talking about morals, whose values are we going by?"

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#30218 - 22 Apr 06 09:26 Re: Depok follows Tangerang with bylaws
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Slowly slowly, Sharia law creeps up upon you!!!

Burn those short skirts girls, throw out that makeup, get yourselves a headscarf and sew up that pussy.


"for the times, they are a changing....."

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#30219 - 22 Apr 06 10:02 Re: Depok follows Tangerang with bylaws
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
Pooh Bah

Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
Loc: Centre of the Universe
Quote:
Originally posted by Polar Bear:
Ida added the council and administration should prioritize more urgent matters concerning public service.

"Depok has mounting problems like infrastructure, garbage and high unemployment," she said. "And furthermore, if we are talking about morals, whose values are we going by?"
i am not concerned about these actions; the islamists are painting themselves into a corner. they are fast losing credibility in the electorate. i hope they keep it up! by the time the elections come the PKS will be back to 2% of the vote.

these so-called morality laws will have an extremely short shelf-life; people are ultimately much more concerned about garbage collection and the state of the roads than what other people may choose to do with their lives.
_________________________
KuKuKaChu: dangerously too sophisticated

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#30220 - 22 Apr 06 10:11 Re: Depok follows Tangerang with bylaws
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
I am interested in how they (the islamists) are achieving power. It seems to me they have power in regional electorates...

But i think these laws should be national. Compulsory underwear checks on street corners (Cherry would fail every time!!!!)

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#30221 - 22 Apr 06 11:31 Re: Depok follows Tangerang with bylaws
Patung Offline
Member++

Registered: 11 Mar 06
Posts: 234
Loc: Indonesia
Quote:
Originally posted by KuKuKaChu:
Quote:
Originally posted by Polar Bear:
Ida added the council and administration should prioritize more urgent matters concerning public service.

"Depok has mounting problems like infrastructure, garbage and high unemployment," she said. "And furthermore, if we are talking about morals, whose values are we going by?"
i am not concerned about these actions; the islamists are painting themselves into a corner. they are fast losing credibility in the electorate. i hope they keep it up! by the time the elections come the PKS will be back to 2% of the vote.

these so-called morality laws will have an extremely short shelf-life; people are ultimately much more concerned about garbage collection and the state of the roads than what other people may choose to do with their lives.
Hope your'e right but once laws are passed they tend to become accepted. Think of all those petty laws that local councils and state govt's pass in Australia, you can't do this, can't do that, people don't like them but apathy sets in and unless theyr'e really outrageous, like the religious vilification law in Victoria, they are just allowed to stand.

Plus there is huge support for very conservative attitudes here, if polling is to be trusted. The one saving grace of bad laws in Indonesia is that they often tend to go unenforced and ignored, that might happen eventually with the morality laws but if youv'e got loudmouth, determined people like the FPI, et al backing them up, then it might be different. It only takes a tiny minority of aforesaid determined people to kick up a stink, like with Playboy, to make things happen.
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#30222 - 22 Apr 06 11:47 Re: Depok follows Tangerang with bylaws
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
I tend to agree. The laws seem to slip onto the statute book without reaction, but sooner or later they will be enforced.

Once a law exists it is hard for the people to repeal it...

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#30223 - 22 Apr 06 16:47 Re: Depok follows Tangerang with bylaws
chicha_lex Offline
Member+

Registered: 07 Feb 06
Posts: 124
Loc: Saudi Arabia
Hmmmm...

Interesting development, I wonder what else will happen in Tanggerang and other part of the areas in Indonesia...

Seems like phropecy is creeping up to be a little bit true now... :)The new power in Islam is not in the middle east... it is in South East Asia... smile

We will see... We will see...
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#30224 - 22 Apr 06 16:51 Re: Depok follows Tangerang with bylaws
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Believe me, it is happening just as I predicted. Slowly region by region, Sharia Law takes hold.....

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#30225 - 22 Apr 06 16:52 Re: Depok follows Tangerang with bylaws
g00f13 Offline
Member*

Registered: 12 Nov 05
Posts: 739
Loc: earth
New bylaws for Bali, everyone must dress less and less everyday.

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#30226 - 22 Apr 06 19:16 Re: Depok follows Tangerang with bylaws
Ena Offline
Member*

Registered: 26 Nov 05
Posts: 765
Loc: Sydney
Patung I LOVE your avatar!!!
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#30227 - 23 Apr 06 10:23 Re: Depok follows Tangerang with bylaws
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Wolves in sheep's clothing on an extremist Islamic mission
By Miranda Devine
April 23, 2006
is a new wave of sophisticated, articulate Islamic fundamentalists trying to spread the word among moderate Muslims in Sydney. Young men, wearing regular clothes, with neatly trimmed beards, broad Australian accents and fluent in Arabic, they appear to be fully assimilated, second-generation Australians.

But they belong to a political group called Hizb ut-Tahrir (Party of Liberation) that calls for the creation of a global Islamic state, or caliphate, under strict sharia law.

The message from these young men is one of division, non-assimilation and rejection of the values of the "kafir" - non-Muslims.

At a public lecture at Bankstown Town Hall earlier this month, Hizb ut-Tahrir organiser Soadad Doureihi, his brother Wassim, and Usman Badar, president of Sydney University's Muslim Student Association in 2005, outlined their utopian goal of the ultimate overthrow of Western democracies.

"Islam can never coexist one under the other or one within the other," Soadad told the crowd. "When the state is established, when people see the mercy of Islam they embrace Islam in droves."

The April 8 lecture, to about 200 men and 50 women, was titled "Should Muslims Subscribe to Australian Values?"

Banned in Britain, Germany, Holland, Russia, and much of the Muslim world, Hizb ut-Tahrir (HT) has been invited to speak at Sydney Boys High at least twice, and often addresses students at Sydney University.

Borrowing its methodology and ideology from Marxist-Leninist groups, HT calls itself a political party which works to "change the situation of the corrupt society so that it is transformed into an Islamic society", its website says.

It opposes integration and assimilation of Muslims into Australian society.

Wassim told the Bankstown crowd: "The pushing to integration and assimilation is to get us to think and believe and feel in a certain way that Islam will not condone.

"On the collective level everyone accepts you have to have one set of laws and no Muslim in this country is demanding today the implementation of sharia law.

"In this country, yes, we believe this is the best way forward but . . . our current struggle is the implementation of Islamic law in the Muslim world and that will serve as a model for the rest of humanity. [But] if governments want to interfere in the individual, personal affairs of any citizen, they are going to create the conditions of civil unrest and chaos like in France."

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#30228 - 23 Apr 06 10:28 Re: Depok follows Tangerang with bylaws
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Slowly but surely ladies and gentlemen, Islam movies into my world. "A utopain goal of overthrow of Western democracies".....

I think Islam should fix its own problems before trying to fix mine.

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#30229 - 23 Apr 06 10:50 Re: Depok follows Tangerang with bylaws
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Quote:
Originally posted by KuKuKaChu:
the islamists are painting themselves into a corner. they are fast losing credibility in the electorate.
The Islamists never had, and never need, credibility.

They survive and rule by fear. They rely upon uneducated and poor populations. Like any other religion it relies upon a promise that can never be tested. Follow the Bible, follow the Koran, and you will have a better next life.

That is why capitalism works every time, you can see (and measure) its outcomes.

Imagine if capitalism was like religion. Work hard, follow the creed, and when you die you will get 40 Porsche

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#30230 - 24 Apr 06 13:44 Re: Depok follows Tangerang with bylaws
Macan Tutul Offline
Pujangga Muda

Registered: 02 Dec 05
Posts: 1502
Loc: Jungle and cage ;)
The Bill needs to be very clear in what it defines as pornography. The Bill is nothing really to do with the real problems in Indonesia!
_________________________
" Don't be shy with yourself, you have lots of talent without you notice....that's human, just be who you are."

(Memoirs of 3/3/2007)

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#30231 - 24 Apr 06 14:00 Re: Depok follows Tangerang with bylaws
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Forget bannig pornography, they should work on the real issues...

Like banning images of Oil Dudes..

Jeeesus, some are scary....

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#30232 - 24 Apr 06 14:14 Re: Depok follows Tangerang with bylaws
Macan Tutul Offline
Pujangga Muda

Registered: 02 Dec 05
Posts: 1502
Loc: Jungle and cage ;)
Yes I agree PB, indonesia will never move if the government only focus on simple matters instead of the real big problems such as poverty, crime, security, and environmental pollution ... It's about self morality.
_________________________
" Don't be shy with yourself, you have lots of talent without you notice....that's human, just be who you are."

(Memoirs of 3/3/2007)

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#30233 - 24 Apr 06 14:56 Re: Depok follows Tangerang with bylaws
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Quote:
Originally posted by Macan Tutul:
Yes I agree PB, indonesia will never move if the government only focus on simple matters instead of the real big problems such as poverty, crime, security, and environmental pollution ... It's about self morality.
I was talking about elderly Oil Dudes hanging about on street corners looking for half price Banci smile

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