Forums and Chat for Indonesia's English-speaking community
Who's Online
0 registered (), 137 Guests and 6 Spiders online.
JakChat on Facebook
Keep up with JakChat
through Facebook!
December
M Tu W Th F Sa Su
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31
Weather
Jakarta temperature now.
Sun Rise/Set:
5:27/17:53
Moon Rise/Set:
16:08/3:31
Top Posters
KuKuKaChu 10790
Dilli 8044
Piss Salon 4039
Roy's Hair 3974
juminten 3870
Jokie Jokie Girl 2552
Marmalade 2471
chewwyUK 2392
kenyeung 2374
Vulgarian 2369
Forum Stats
5101 Members
17 Forums
13368 Topics
105287 Posts
Max Online: 841 @04 Apr 08 15:38
ZenQuote
The aim of a joke is not to degrade the human being but to remind him that he is already degraded.
George Orwell
Urban Dictionary
Word of the Day
Laughterwards
A TV show, Film or situation that was not really funny or marginally funny that for whatever reason is much funnier aftwrwards.
You have to watch Portlandia, but it's a laughterwards, so just give it a chance to kick in.
Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#29500 - 06 Mar 06 20:23 Christianity V Islam.
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Many Christians are afraid of Islam. They think it is a restrictive religion, that interfers with individual freedoms.

Is this true?

Well - lets compare Islam to Catholisism.

Muslims want to interfere in my life. Force me to pray 5 times a day. Not partake in alcohol. Not partake in premarital sex. Force women to cover themselves. Force everyone to live by Sharia Law.

The Catholics? Well, under a catholic dominated Irish government:

abortion STILL IS ILLEGAL!!!!! http://www.ifpa.ie/abortion/hist.html

Until 1979 condoms were banned!!!!!
http://www2.hu-berlin.de/sexology/IES/ireland.html

the contraceptive pill was illegal until 1985!!!!! http://www.cbctrust.com/history_law_religion.php#15

the “morning after pill” is STILL ILLEGAL!!! http://www.irishhealth.com/?level=4&id=2700

homosexuality was punishable by imprisonment until 1993!!! http://www.gaytimes.co.uk/gt/default.asp?topic=country&country=508

Pre marital sex was technically illegal!!!

Divorce was ILLEGAL until 1997!!! http://www.divorceuk.com/pages/keyissues/diveire.php


A Catholic australian health Minister (Tony Abbot) tried hard to keep an abortion pill off the shelves of Australia. Now he will spend $50 million on “Abortion counseling” 50 dollars says the Catholic church gets the contract!!!!!

Catholicism is just as radical, and can be just as dangerous, as Islam.

Top
Promotion
Firefox 2: Rediscover the Web
#29501 - 06 Mar 06 20:37 Re: Christianity V Islam.
Dilli Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 26 Feb 06
Posts: 8044
Loc: Nearest Bar
Chosen a touchy subject this time PB
_________________________
Menace to Sobriety


Top
#29502 - 06 Mar 06 21:04 Re: Christianity V Islam.
D'ruby Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 13 Feb 06
Posts: 2177
Loc: My
Talking religion could be sensitive to some people. Hope not here smile
_________________________
I wanna be Samantha, but I am so Carrie

Top
#29503 - 06 Mar 06 21:09 Re: Christianity V Islam.
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
Pooh Bah

Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
Loc: Centre of the Universe
is there any religion that does now have an inherent ability to become dangerous, intolerant and authoritiarian? i don't think there is. religion should be banned, or at the very least, only licenced people of proven maturity and sound mind should be allowed to practice a religion.
religion is too dangerous to be left to the half-educated.
_________________________
KuKuKaChu: dangerously too sophisticated

Top
#29504 - 06 Mar 06 21:16 Re: Christianity V Islam.
D'ruby Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 13 Feb 06
Posts: 2177
Loc: My
It could be dangerous if they're too fanatic and thinking that their religion is the only right way of life and the best thing for everyone.
_________________________
I wanna be Samantha, but I am so Carrie

Top
#29505 - 06 Mar 06 21:40 Re: Christianity V Islam.
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
Pooh Bah

Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
Loc: Centre of the Universe
yes, but the problem is that every religion tends towards fanaticism and intolerance by their very nature. it is ultimately impossible for 2 or more absolutist world views to live side by side; one will eventually have to give. so why don't we invent a new religion, called the One And Only True Religion, whose only unifying mission is to destroy other religions?
_________________________
KuKuKaChu: dangerously too sophisticated

Top
#29506 - 07 Mar 06 05:34 Re: Christianity V Islam.
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Listen carefully to what I am saying, lest you misunderstand me:

Christianity - especially Catholicism, is just as restrictive in its views as Islam.

Those people who are scared of the rise of Islam should take a long hard look at religion in the West before making comment.

Lets look at some facts:

Sharia Law V Western Law

Sharia law is based upon the Koran, and is intended to enforce the religious practices of Islam. Most people in Australia are horrified at the thought of the introduction of Sharia law.

Yet they live under and abide by a set of laws that originated in the ecclesiastical courts of England. In the Middle Ages these Christian religious courts had wide powers, and were acknowledged to be the experts in The Corpus Juris Civilis (Body of Civil Law). Thus many of the laws today were based upon the Churches interpretation of Roman Laws. The interpretation of course, always suited the teaching of the church……..

Thus the laws that I live under are actually a Christian equivalent to Sharia law. I cannot have more than one wife by law. Why? Because the Church of England decided I could not!!!!!!!!

As a young man in England I could not:
buy alcohol on Sundays (a religious law).
I could not hear live music on Sundays (a religious law)
I could not drink during church hours on Sundays. (a religious law)
I could not dance on Good Friday (a religious law)
I could not SHOP on Sundays (a religious law)

All of the above laws were introduced by the Church of England to protect its “business”!!!

Sharia law is not so different from the garbage laws introduced by Chrisitanity.

Top
#29507 - 07 Mar 06 06:02 Re: Christianity V Islam.
g00f13 Offline
Member*

Registered: 12 Nov 05
Posts: 739
Loc: earth
This is where I think religion should not involve itself in any state politics. Or the state is not controlled by any religion in any shape or form. But throughout history and beyond the reverse is always true.

What it all boils down to in its truest form religion is just a nicer word for cult. The word 'cult' is probably created by one of the religious group to protect its own interest at the time.

The point that PB made is ringing true.

Top
#29508 - 07 Mar 06 06:06 Re: Christianity V Islam.
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Right now a Catholic governement minister (Tony Abbott) is trying to make it harder to get an abortion.

He tried to ban the abortion pill RU486.

Now he is trying to force girls to have counciling before they can have an abortion. He is paying $50 MILLION of my taxes to Catholic Church anti abortion movements, to organise this.

Catholicism v Islam.

Same same!

Top
#29509 - 07 Mar 06 07:11 Re: Christianity V Islam.
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
I started this thread to appease Kuamr, who wrote:

This time it is definetly, I'm out of the general forums. The mindless spamming has taken new heights and is pretty annoying. Too much scrolling to find a worthy reply these days, if there is even a worthy reply. No problem if you could keep it to one thread but it spreads like a disease to all threads.

Thank you for your time.Take care and enjoy spamming

Top
#29510 - 07 Mar 06 09:22 Re: Christianity V Islam.
Macan Tutul Offline
Pujangga Muda

Registered: 02 Dec 05
Posts: 1502
Loc: Jungle and cage ;)
Salâmun `alaika yâ al-Masîh! (Peace on You, Jesus)
Published: 28/12/2005
We sometimes fail to remember that many Muslims were no longer interested in building a social gap with others of different faith. They realize that congratulating non-Muslims on their holidays does not contain theological interest, but it is a way to build tolerance and respect among religious disciples.
In the end of year, some Muslims were trapped by Islamic legal questions on whether they were allowed to wish the Christians a merry Christmas or not. The answer varies and depends on the perspective of Muslim clerics. However, it seems that most of them forbid Muslims to congratulate the Non-Muslim’s holiday.

One of the reasons behind this prohibition is due to its negative implication. They presume that to congratulate Non-Muslims on their holidays (e.g. Christmas) is to justify their beliefs, while according to Islamic perception some aspects of these beliefs have been manipulated and corrupted (muharraf).

Some of them will add a brief historical data about Christmas, that it is a mere extension of a festival called Natalis Solis Invicti (birthday of invincible sun) which was a custom of Roman pagans. This ritual then adopted into the Christian’s tradition and became part of the Christian’s doctrine despite of different dates of celebration. The Roman Catholic Church, Protestant Church, Greek and Roman Orthodox Church celebrate it on 25 December. While most of Eastern Orthodox Church such as Coptic Church in Egypt, celebrate it on 7th of January.

These additional facts used to affirm the prohibition of wishing the Christians on Christmas day. Therefore, Muslims who tolerate Christian’s religious practice, for instance by wishing them a merry Christmas, will be regarded as admitting unjustified thing in Islam.

They will also insert in their argument surah al-Maidah: 3 “This day have I perfected your religion for you and completed My favour unto you, and have chosen for you as religion Al-Islam” and Ali Imran: 19 “Lo! Religion with Allah is al-Islam”. Popular interpretation of these verses asserts that Islam is the only perfect, complete and blessed religion.

Another reason behind this prohibition is an assumption that saying a merry Christmas will blemish common Muslim’s faith, which I think is exaggerated. Based on various reasons too, a famous Muslim cleric in Jakarta advised the President of Indonesia not to join the Christmas celebration and to appoint a Christian cabinet minister instead of him.
I think this advice will be neglected in countries with strong Islamic tradition such as Egypt, Tunisia, Morocco, Jordan etc, because it seems to underestimate the capability of Muslim (even president) to guard his faith. Everyone knows that congratulating the Christians on Christmas day is just an ethical conduct and part of social wisdom within society.
We sometimes fail to remember that many Muslims were no longer interested in building a social gap with others of different faith. They realize that congratulating non-Muslims on their holidays does not contain theological interest, but it is a way to build tolerance and respect among religious disciples.

Such trivial deed seems as an oasis in the dessert, within the escalation of religious intolerance today. I think wishing a merry Christmas will never bring about faith destruction for Muslims, but create peace and social harmony in this plural country.

Based on this consideration, I sincerely wish all my Christian friends a merry Christmas in the similar wording to Quranic verses surah Maryam 33: “Peace on you (Isa or Jesus) the day you were born, the day you died, and the day you raised alive!”
_________________________
" Don't be shy with yourself, you have lots of talent without you notice....that's human, just be who you are."

(Memoirs of 3/3/2007)

Top
#29511 - 07 Mar 06 10:07 Re: Christianity V Islam.
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
Pooh Bah

Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
Loc: Centre of the Universe
but then, kumar has not joined this discussion ... perhaps he does not think about these kinds of issues? he's indian, so there's a high possibility that he's hindu. hinduism also has in recent decades demonstrated symptoms of intolerance and arrogance.
_________________________
KuKuKaChu: dangerously too sophisticated

Top
#29512 - 07 Mar 06 10:19 Re: Christianity V Islam.
Jokie Jokie Girl Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 07 Nov 05
Posts: 2552
Loc: Central Jakarta
sometimes I was confused to different between Islam and Catolic or Christian...because I lives with 2 religion...my dad's religion is Islam and my Mom's religion is Catholic..and they tried to apply two religious teachings in my life...
actually..between Islam, Catholic or any religion in this world..those of all..always Taught the truth..
_________________________
"I am the Island girl, born with the humble life, eat on the floor with the right hand"

Top
#29513 - 07 Mar 06 10:42 Re: Christianity V Islam.
kumar Offline
Member+

Registered: 08 Feb 06
Posts: 122
Loc: Jakarta
Both are religions of peace, and the teachings of Jesus are incorporated in the Qur’an. Jesus is a great man in the Qur’an. He is highly regarded.

The teachings of Jesus belong not to Christianity alone but to the world corpus of philosophical literature, free of the need for belief and common to mankind.

Islam is a religion and, keeping truth with itself, would find itself incapable of being anything other than a religion. It is founded on the very mind-set of belief. Its name, Islam, means, literally, subjection: to be thrown under. It describes the ideal state, which exists between a believer and God. The idea that it is derived from the word ‘peace’ is untrue. Converts to it seek its certainty and its way of life. Apostates from it seek freedom from it. Islam is only distantly related to Christianity. It does not fulfil or supersede it. That is an untruth put about to win converts.

Finally, we should look at the age in which we are. In the West, we have remarkable freedom. This is relatively new. Fifty years ago, in the United States, a man convicted of homosexuality could be forced to undergo brain surgery. In the 1930’s, in Great Britain, a (working class) woman could be sent to a mental hospital for life for having an illegitimate child. The power of the Church was broken in Ireland only recently, and even now women seeking abortion after rape have to travel abroad. So freedom is a new thing. We have to learn to live with it. In the absence of an external system of discipline — which is a major part of any religion — the art of self-discipline has to be learnt. This may take generations. Different realities have to be lived, and, where there is no hope of heaven and no fear of hell, different aspirations have to be sought; different fears have to be understood.
_________________________
Take care, not too much, be good, not too much, keep lubricated, never enough!

It was simply excellent, it was simply sensual, it was simply sublime.

Top
#29514 - 07 Mar 06 10:58 Re: Christianity V Islam.
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
Pooh Bah

Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
Loc: Centre of the Universe
Quote:
Originally posted by Dilligaf:
Chosen a touchy subject this time PB
touchy subjects are usually the only ones worth talking about wink
_________________________
KuKuKaChu: dangerously too sophisticated

Top
#29515 - 07 Mar 06 11:03 Re: Christianity V Islam.
juminten Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 08 Dec 05
Posts: 3870
Loc: disana-disini
Quote:
Originally posted by KuKuKaChu:
...hinduism also has in recent decades demonstrated symptoms of intolerance and arrogance.
You aren't talking about Hindu Bali arent you Kuku??
_________________________
I need more money and power and less shit from you people!

Top
#29516 - 07 Mar 06 11:04 Re: Christianity V Islam.
Macan Tutul Offline
Pujangga Muda

Registered: 02 Dec 05
Posts: 1502
Loc: Jungle and cage ;)
Different realities have to be lived, and, where there is no hope of heaven and no fear of hell, different aspirations have to be sought; different fears have to be understood.
Yes Kumar, thats the point is we should look where we live on age now, and we should be adjust to our living now without harm or mock each other and like you said different fears have to be understood and I believe there is no religion in this world which teach harmness or bad, but I'm little bit scary to what happen in INA this time especially when there is any demonstration in front of US Embassy protested to US, and they want to make this country all of using Sharia Law, Islam Sharia, maybe its good and properly for some other but the other part, but we should look back, INA is a plural and multi cultural country, they have their own culture and traditions, and it goes and exist from the long time ago, they (the pro Sharia) can't change just like that! And look for the new rules about pornography that will exist, ok but we should look for the other side of it, example I came from Central Java and I have traditonal clothes it call "Kemben" just from chest until feet, do I should be arrest and it can be call "Porno" ? I think its ridicolous.
_________________________
" Don't be shy with yourself, you have lots of talent without you notice....that's human, just be who you are."

(Memoirs of 3/3/2007)

Top
#29517 - 07 Mar 06 11:15 Re: Christianity V Islam.
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
Pooh Bah

Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
Loc: Centre of the Universe
Quote:
Originally posted by wallet-digga':
Quote:
Originally posted by KuKuKaChu:
...hinduism also has in recent decades demonstrated symptoms of intolerance and arrogance.
You aren't talking about Hindu Bali arent you Kuku??
hindu bali? oh no no no, not them. mereka baik hati kok. but i must say that bali hinduism does register rather highly on the Okusi Weird Shit Index™
_________________________
KuKuKaChu: dangerously too sophisticated

Top
#29518 - 07 Mar 06 11:24 Re: Christianity V Islam.
juminten Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 08 Dec 05
Posts: 3870
Loc: disana-disini
Good to know kuku! or beli goof will demo you in front of okusi!
_________________________
I need more money and power and less shit from you people!

Top
#29519 - 07 Mar 06 17:13 Re: Christianity V Islam.
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Quote:
Originally posted by kumar:
Finally, we should look at the age in which we are. In the West, we have remarkable freedom. This is relatively new. Fifty years ago, in the United States, a man convicted of homosexuality could be forced to undergo brain surgery. In the 1930’s, in Great Britain, a (working class) woman could be sent to a mental hospital for life for having an illegitimate child. The power of the Church was broken in Ireland only recently, and even now women seeking abortion after rape have to travel abroad. So freedom is a new thing.
you are right, but even in the west we still have stupid laws.......

Top
#29520 - 07 Mar 06 18:18 Re: Christianity V Islam.
Dilli Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 26 Feb 06
Posts: 8044
Loc: Nearest Bar
Back in the fold again, seems that the touchy subject is going swimmingly, even brought Kumar back on board...
_________________________
Menace to Sobriety


Top
#29521 - 07 Mar 06 18:25 Re: Christianity V Islam.
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Yes nothing like a contraversial "prod" to get them chatting at the bar. smile smile

How was your holiday?

and how was Booby-Ruby?

Top
#29522 - 07 Mar 06 18:56 Re: Christianity V Islam.
g00f13 Offline
Member*

Registered: 12 Nov 05
Posts: 739
Loc: earth
Quote:
Originally posted by KuKuKaChu:
[QUOTE]hindu bali? oh no no no, not them. mereka baik hati kok. but i must say that bali hinduism does register rather highly on the Okusi Weird Shit Index™
I don't mind at all I'm a pretty open-minded guy. I like hearing comments having discussion about a lot of things, regardless whether they're touchy, bad, good, whatever.

By the way, why do you think it's weird?

Top
#29523 - 07 Mar 06 18:59 Re: Christianity V Islam.
g00f13 Offline
Member*

Registered: 12 Nov 05
Posts: 739
Loc: earth
I do think that if people cannot have open discussion like this, then those people do not really understand the subject.

Top
#29524 - 07 Mar 06 19:04 Re: Christianity V Islam.
Dilli Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 26 Feb 06
Posts: 8044
Loc: Nearest Bar
After the drive trhough the disappearing Rain Forest today I may stir up a touchy subject or two. By the way my father taught me never to discuss politics or religion in a bar, chat rooms are similar to bars, you never know what will offend the person sitting next to you.

I amy be offline for a while as my sister called to say my father tried to take his life, apparently he is well in hospital, he's 74 and I have not spoken to him since my daughter was born almost 11 years ago.(She has never seen her grandfather and is always saying when can I meet my Grandpa)

Funny how some subjects (such as religion) nremind you of things and serendipity come along and kicks you in the ass!

Seems like I have some thinking to do tonight!
_________________________
Menace to Sobriety


Top
Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 >


Moderator:  kenyeung, NetCop 
Shout Box

JakChat supports:
Okusi Associates: Indonesian Business & Management Services
Jawawa.id: Indonesian Business News
Ubuntu Indonesia
Living in Indonesia Information Website