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#28932 - 21 Jul 06 15:16 Bizarre behaviour: are these people intellectuals?!
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
Pooh Bah

Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
Loc: Centre of the Universe
This is bizarre. I post some mildly provocative criticisms of The Jakarta Post, and I get an avalanche of personal abuse. These are (some of) the people who write in the Post on a daily basis. The personal abuse in thejakartapost yahoogroups forum is even more bizarre, even thuggish. This is not a good sign for what is Indonesia's only English-language newspaper.

From Unspun http://unspun.wordpress.com/2006/07/19/jakarta-post-and-then-there-were-nine/


Jakarta Post: and then there were nine?

Update: As journalists learn quickly, people will read what they want to read despite the facts. I’ve been told that this posting has caused some angst among some journalists in the Post, who choose to see gloom and doom about the departure of nine staffers. For a more complete picture of what is happening in the Post, please make sure you read the comments, especially A’an’s below.

The Grapevine tells more details about The Jakarta Post exodus. There are not only eight but apparently nine people leaving soon for various reasons. We’ve blogged about Reiner going to Forbes.

The remaining eight are:

(1) T.S. who’s very knowledgeable about the military going to Van Zorge
(2) T.Y. going to UNAIDS
(4) R.A.W going on a scholarship to the Netherlands
(5) E.M who is also on a scholarship to Netherlands
(6) A.S. on a scholarship to the U.S.
(7) M.S.S off to study in Germany

(8) A photographer M.S that’s leaving but The Grapevine does not know where

(9) And a graphic designer known only as I on to a scholarship in the Netherlands

There was also rumors of a 10th man, T.H. leaving but apparently its only rumors.

July 19th, 2006 Posted by unspun | Indonesia, Media, journalists | 15 Comments
15 Comments »


1. hey, these are only people who will be leaving soon. what about the dozens (like myself!) who jumped ship a few months ago??

just look at The Jakarta Post these days; it’s never been good, and now it’s just pathetic.

Comment by KuKuKaChu | July 12, 2006


2. didn’t have blog then. I’ve seen your lament before: each earlier generation of newspeople thinking that the present generation has gone to the dogs.

I think you’d have to substiantiate the claim that the Post has gone from never good to pathetic if it is to have currency.

Comment by unspun | July 12, 2006


3. no need to substantiate. it was bad before i got there; it was bad while i was there, and it stayed bad when i left.

the recruitment policies at JP are strange. and no effort is put into retaining good employees.

subsequently, most who end up staying at JP are people who can’t get jobs anywhere else!

Comment by KuKuKaChu | July 14, 2006


4. My name is A’an Suryana and I have been mentioned in this blog. I should tell you that the rumors are not entirely true. Not all eight or nine people will leave the Post. Yes, some people have left the Post, but others will remain stay with our company, the eminent English publication in this country. I myself will go to US on Fulbright fellowship, but I will not leave The Jakarta Post. I will remain work with the company, which respects pluralism and strives for excellence. Another person, Evi Mariani, who gets scholarship to Netherland, will also return to the Post after completing her study.
Our company is going strong and we booked billions of rupiah profit last year and it is likely that the amount of rupiah got from the ads will increase this year. I think we have brighter future and later on, it will positively affect welfare of our employees.

Comment by A'an Suryana | July 19, 2006


5. Thanks A’an for clarifying the situation. I have made some checks and found out that of the five people leaving the Post (for now), three are doing so actually sponsored by The Jakarta Post and would therefore very probably return to the Post.

I also agree that people leaving the Post is par for the course. The Post has been a victim of poaching by wire services and other media and research companies for as long as it’s been established. In a way that’s a compliment to the Post because it shows that the people it’s trained is fit to be head hunted.

I’m sure that the Post is doing quite well too, judging from the extra pages and advertisements of late. I’m actually quite surprised myself why some people have chosen to read gloom and doom into my previous postings on the Post.

As a former journalist and now a businessperson, I think it is a fact of life that people come and go in an organization. And in moments of organizational change there is usually more traffic. This is not necessarily bad for the organization as people who can adapt to the changes will want to stay while those who can’t would not.

I also hear from The Grapvine that as fine an institution as it is, the Post has also realized that it has gotten a bit stodgy over the years and has embarked on making changes.

That the Post realizes its shortcomings and are taking steps to overcome them is surely something very encouraging and positive.

So carry on the Post and good luck to you and the other journalist-scholars on your new adventure. But certainly do come back to help report on Indonesia and inform us all of developments in this country smile

(Also congrats on getting the prestigous Fullbright Scholarship)

Comment by unspun | July 19, 2006


6. Hi A’an Suryana,

If the paragraph you wrote above is reflective of the standards of The Jakarta Post, then you should not use the phrase “the eminent English publication in this country”.

And if you insist that the phrase is an accurate description of The Jakarta Post, then I can only feel sorry for the other English newspapers in the country.

Comment by confusedcious | July 20, 2006


7. indeed. and it’s only “eminent” because it’s the *only* English-language daily newspaper in the country!

JP these days rides on the fact that it has a monopoly position as the only English-language publication, and has thus become a kind of semi-official mouthpiece of the government into the diplomatic community.

JP’s constituency is not white expats — as many white expats seem to believe — but the foreign diplomatic community. read with this in mind, many of the oddities in this publication become vaguely understandable.

JP has hardened into an unimportant, conservative, don’t-rock-the-boat publication. which is a great pity, especially for those journalists who enter the paper with high ideals, only to have them squashed in no time at all.

The Jakarta Post could be a very good paper, even within the practical limitations of the indonesian social and political environment. it’s a pity JP’s management do not have sufficient vision to see its real potential.

Comment by KuKuKaChu | July 20, 2006


8. KuKuKaChu is so piss off with the Post cause he was fired for falsifying data to the readers to support Freeport (yes, that damned chicky devil Freeport). So did you really jumped off the ship? Should I scan your dismissal letter and blog it?

Comment by Devil | July 20, 2006


9. ? sorry devil, you’ve got the wrong person.

and there’s no need for abuse, by the way. this is just a discussion, not an “attack” on JP. abuse is not a substitute for debate.

i would not waste my time criticising the JP if i did not think it was *worth* criticising. i happen to think the JP is worth my time to criticise.

Comment by KuKuKaChu | July 20, 2006


10. I don’t necessarily agree with what KukukaChu says but I think he has expressed a viewpoint, which should be divorced from his motivations or personality.

Devil, I would love to hear from you or any one else out there a rebuttal of KukukaChu’s viewpoint, and KukukaChu I’d also look forward to you contributing some ideas of what the Post can do better and how you’d go about doing it if you had the chance.

It’s easy to criticise and I have no intention of muzzling criticism in this blog (which will remain unmoderated unless the bounds of good taste are trespassed), but I think it’s useful also to be able to provide alternatives when we criticize.

Whether we like it or not, the Post is all we have for the moment and we all should try to put our heads together in a discussion that could be constructively useful to the Post.

Comment by unspun | July 20, 2006


11. subsequently, most who end up staying at JP are people who can’t get jobs anywhere else!
Comment by KuKuKaChu | July 14, 2006

Wow, that hurts… I wonder what’s your job now? I hope it gives you better income so you could learn Indonesian and read other newspapers than unimportant, conservative JP.

unspun: and KukukaChu I’d also look forward to you contributing some ideas of what the Post can do better and how you’d go about doing it if you had the chance.

unspun, KuKuKaChu obviously had the chance. but I think his or her biggest chance to improve JP was by leaving it. Good for you KuKuKaChu, good for JP too, perhaps.

Gee KuKuKaChu, what did JP do to you? Poor you… A’an, whatever you did to this poor big time complainer, apologize, please, huahaha. He’s obviously having a hard time moving on.

KuKuKaChu: and there’s no need for abuse, by the way. this is just a discussion, not an “attack” on JP.

oh really? not an attack? “subsequently, most who end up staying at JP are people who can’t get jobs anywhere else!” sounds like an attack to more than 100 people working at JP.

Comment by mysympathyforobviouslyfrustratedKuKuKaChu | July 20, 2006


12. Dear mysympathyforobviouslyfrustratedKuKuKaChu:

Your sympathy is misplaced. Trust me on this. wink

Yes, I acknowledge that a few of my statements were rather provocative, but I seem to have got your attention. smile If people were offended, or took my statements personally, then I’m truly sorry. But I don’t back down from the substance I what I said. There are far too many overpaid, unproductive “penumpang” within JP, and they most definitely could not get jobs anywhere else. The relevant question to ask is, whose fault is this? My answer (for what little it is worth): Management.

However, all this misses the point. Most of you in your responses have focused on yourselves, and the aspersions you think have been cast upon you. Not one word in defense of JP *as a publication*!

Very shortly, new competitors will be entering the English-language news market, and JP is singularly unprepared to confront these competitors. JP seems content to hide behind grandma Kompas’ in terms of editorial leadership, and behind its long-held monopoly position as Indonesia’s only English-language newspaper. Has this led to intellectual laziness? Has this led to the self-satisfied and uncritical culture within the company? Maybe.

Ultimately, these are not problems for JP’s employees, but rather for JP’s management to address. The corporate culture that has developed needs to be completely shaken up, not just given an annual stir. And true cultural change *always* starts at the very top.

Are JP’s managers and leaders capable of this kind of change? I have my doubts, but I would be very pleased to be proved wrong!

Comment by KuKuKaChu | July 21, 2006


13. Dear KuKuKaChu,
I’ve seen your profile on JakChat and trust me on this, my sympathy remains with you.

Yes, JP has problems in the management as well as in the newsroom. A few of your statements are true. But there are many inaccurate analysis based on your short period of time working at JP and on your questionable intelligence. You seem to think you’re pretty smart that you seem content to draw up many seemingly clever yet wrong conclusions.

KuKuKaChu: seems content to hide behind grandma Kompas’ in terms of editorial leadership
that’s grossly inaccurate. Kompas? Pleaseee.

KuKuKaChu: semi-official mouthpiece of the government into the diplomatic community
in some cases it might be true. But in most cases, it’s inaccurate.

But, anyway, you’re such a big time complainer who thinks you’re smart, I won’t bother discussing things with you. Capek, Mas…hahahaha.

Comment by mysympathyforobviouslyfrustratedKuKuKaChu | July 21, 2006


14. Is inaccurate personal abuse all you can do? It seems no-one except for Aan is prepared to debate properly at all.

What are you all afraid of? Criticism won’t kill anyone. Really. I remain fond of JP: fond enough to want it to be what it should be, and not what it is now.

All this recourse to personal abuse from people who actually know nothing about me almost goes to prove my point. Journalists should be critical, not just slaves to conservativism and vested interests.

Comment by KuKuKaChu | July 21, 2006


15. All this recourse to personal abuse from people who actually know nothing about me

Please click for KuKuKaChu profile:
http://www.jakchat.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/profile/430.html

Comment by IknowfewthingsaboutKuKuKaChu | July 21, 2006


16. Also, http://www.okusi.net/garydean/
and http://www.okusi.net/garydean/works/

Are you an intellectual, or a thug?

Why can’t you debate the issues I raised? What are you afraid of?

Comment by KuKuKaChu | July 21, 2006
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KuKuKaChu: dangerously too sophisticated

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#28933 - 22 Jul 06 12:07 Re: Bizarre behaviour: are these people intellectuals?!
Piss Salon Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 27 Jun 06
Posts: 4039
Loc: Jakpus
Yes, the same old shit from the same old tired hacks, who cannot see – despite the presence of a number of intelligent, well-traveled personnel – that the Post can make significant improvements with a little investment in training and staff retention through increased remuneration (this may also decrease the acceptance of ‘gifts, as they say rather euphemistically). The Post must take the lead in addressing the nation’s many failings to bring about positive change, but it never seems to make an impact.

Come on the Post, we are on your side.
_________________________
place within us love that truly gives, tenderness that truly unites, self-offering that tells the truth and does not deceive, forgiveness that truly receives, loving physical union that welcomes

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#28934 - 22 Jul 06 15:59 Re: Bizarre behaviour: are these people intellectuals?!
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
Pooh Bah

Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
Loc: Centre of the Universe
this is what makes it so bizarre. anyone who dares to even mildly criticise the Post is hounded, abused, slandered, intimidated and threatened. certain people within the Post seem to see it as their sacred duty to defend the "honour" of the paper. sort of a variation of "my country, my country, right or wrong, my country!"

and these same persons are leading journalists/editors at the Post, who you would think should know how to conduct a civilised debate without resorting to threats and racist abuse.
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KuKuKaChu: dangerously too sophisticated

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#28935 - 23 Jul 06 09:10 Re: Bizarre behaviour: are these people intellectuals?!
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
I recently had coffee in a cafe at Circular Quay, a place called the "News stand". It has bound editions of "Famous Newspapers" – the Times, Times of India, Straights Times, Bangkok Post and The Jakarta Post.

I sat there reading last months news from around the world. But it felt eerily like reading last centuries news in a library.

The Internet is slowly but surely destroying newspapers. Each morning I flick open my pocket pc phone, log in to the Australian news online and read the overnight breaking news. Three years ago I bought the newspaper……

When the great newspapers of the world do indeed die, it will be a sad moment.

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#28936 - 23 Jul 06 12:38 Re: Bizarre behaviour: are these people intellectuals?!
Patung Offline
Member++

Registered: 11 Mar 06
Posts: 234
Loc: Indonesia
Quote:
Originally posted by The One and Only Polar Bear:
I recently had coffee in a cafe at Circular Quay, a place called the "News stand". It has bound editions of "Famous Newspapers" – the Times, Times of India, Straights Times, Bangkok Post and The Jakarta Post.
They allow a bigoted paper like that in Sydney? The queers don't protest? laugh wink
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http://www.indonesiamatters.com/

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#28937 - 23 Jul 06 13:24 Re: Bizarre behaviour: are these people intellectuals?!
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
It's a funny feature of many of our civilized societies, that the presumed-dominant group is not allowed to have exclusive clubs, publications or whatever, but presumed-minority groups are free to have their exclusive clubs, publications etc. At uni we had the GALA (gay and lesbian assoc.), a black club, an hispanic club, an asian club etc. all with their own publications, but if someone were to start up a white-male club, geeez there'd be no end to the protests.

Not that I care or would've joined any of the above, or read the Hetero Times, just a curious observation.
_________________________
Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

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#28938 - 23 Jul 06 15:28 Re: Bizarre behaviour: are these people intellectuals?!
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
An estimated one in three men in sydney is a poo pusher.

Leaves the market wide open to me.

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#28939 - 24 Jul 06 13:43 Re: Bizarre behaviour: are these people intellectuals?!
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
Pooh Bah

Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
Loc: Centre of the Universe
We should start a newspaper called "The Secular White Heterosexual Male Times". it seems that secular white heterosexual males now qualify as a minority.
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KuKuKaChu: dangerously too sophisticated

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#28940 - 24 Jul 06 14:03 Re: Bizarre behaviour: are these people intellectuals?!
D'ruby Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 13 Feb 06
Posts: 2177
Loc: My
Panjang banget nama korannya :p
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I wanna be Samantha, but I am so Carrie

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#28941 - 24 Jul 06 14:08 Re: Bizarre behaviour: are these people intellectuals?!
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
Pooh Bah

Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
Loc: Centre of the Universe
biarin! koran tsb bukan buat km, tahu? km tidak boleh baca!
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KuKuKaChu: dangerously too sophisticated

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#28942 - 24 Jul 06 14:09 Re: Bizarre behaviour: are these people intellectuals?!
D'ruby Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 13 Feb 06
Posts: 2177
Loc: My
Discrim deh frown
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I wanna be Samantha, but I am so Carrie

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#28943 - 24 Jul 06 14:23 Re: Bizarre behaviour: are these people intellectuals?!
Choc_Cow Offline
Member**

Registered: 25 May 06
Posts: 1200
Loc: Di Puncak
Quote:
Originally posted by rubyenda:
Discrim deh frown
Rubydubydub, ngga papa.. yang beli korannya juga paling2 cuma Non White Homosexual Readers (thirsty for some macho words)

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#28944 - 24 Jul 06 15:23 Re: Bizarre behaviour: are these people intellectuals?!
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
I am considering (seriously) an Alpha male Mr Cool web site.

If I work out how to make omney out of it I will do it.

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#28945 - 24 Jul 06 19:58 Re: Bizarre behaviour: are these people intellectuals?!
Choc_Cow Offline
Member**

Registered: 25 May 06
Posts: 1200
Loc: Di Puncak
have a picture of yourself naked in the website, updated weekly..

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#28946 - 24 Jul 06 20:16 Re: Bizarre behaviour: are these people intellectuals?!
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Quote:
Originally posted by Chocolatea:
have a picture of yourself naked in the website, updated weekly..
You mean like this one..... smile

(Up for 24 hours only, so enjoy it while you can......)

And it really is me.....

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#28947 - 24 Jul 06 20:23 Re: Bizarre behaviour: are these people intellectuals?!
D'ruby Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 13 Feb 06
Posts: 2177
Loc: My
Aaahhh...
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I wanna be Samantha, but I am so Carrie

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#28948 - 24 Jul 06 20:33 Re: Bizarre behaviour: are these people intellectuals?!
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Quote:
Originally posted by rubyenda:
Aaahhh...
Heart attack ruby??? smile

your turn dear....

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#28949 - 24 Jul 06 20:34 Re: Bizarre behaviour: are these people intellectuals?!
Choc_Cow Offline
Member**

Registered: 25 May 06
Posts: 1200
Loc: Di Puncak
(turning to Ruby). .. why Aaahhh Ruby?

[FYI .. i'm still speechless]

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#28950 - 24 Jul 06 20:38 Re: Bizarre behaviour: are these people intellectuals?!
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
glad I can shut you up!! smile

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#28951 - 24 Jul 06 20:39 Re: Bizarre behaviour: are these people intellectuals?!
Choc_Cow Offline
Member**

Registered: 25 May 06
Posts: 1200
Loc: Di Puncak
ermmm i got my voice back here...

nice 'helmet'!

!

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#28952 - 24 Jul 06 20:43 Re: Bizarre behaviour: are these people intellectuals?!
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Quote:
Originally posted by Chocolatea:
ermmm i got my voice back here...

nice 'helmet'!

!
HAT
HAT

its my army no1 Dres Cap......

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#28953 - 24 Jul 06 20:46 Re: Bizarre behaviour: are these people intellectuals?!
Choc_Cow Offline
Member**

Registered: 25 May 06
Posts: 1200
Loc: Di Puncak
can i ask a question?

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#28954 - 24 Jul 06 20:48 Re: Bizarre behaviour: are these people intellectuals?!
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
go ahead darling......

Is it about sizes?

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#28955 - 24 Jul 06 20:50 Re: Bizarre behaviour: are these people intellectuals?!
Choc_Cow Offline
Member**

Registered: 25 May 06
Posts: 1200
Loc: Di Puncak
Who took the picture?


(and are those sixpacks? or were you just aligning your chest/belly hair in such a way to make it look like 6pcks?)

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#28956 - 24 Jul 06 20:53 Re: Bizarre behaviour: are these people intellectuals?!
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
1. A girl took the picture. I was getting changed to go to an amry dinner and she took my photo.

2. that is a 6 pack. i worked bloody hard to get it. There is no way to alight fur to make it look like a six pack.

3. i can give you a personal demonstration if you so desire.....

4. RUBY.... RUBY.... Deep breaths darling, keep breathing...

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