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#27631 - 26 Dec 05 21:23 Why better to invest somewhere else
Risad Gir Offline
Member*

Registered: 09 Dec 05
Posts: 548
Loc: Surabaya
Setting up a business in Indonesia takes way to long in my opinion.

Is there any foreigner is this forum ever successfully implemented a company in Indonesia?
I find it hard to believe.

Please tell me about it.
How long did it take you for the implementation?
Is your business running well?
How many of you left Indonesia again before implementation was finished?
How about bureaucracy and corruption?

I donít know but I beginning to think you have to be a complete moron to invest in Indonesia. We just lost a software development project to India because Indonesia is way to slow and a big disappointment despite all promises for improvement.

Cheers,
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#27632 - 26 Dec 05 21:58 Re: Why better to invest somewhere else
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Hmmmmmmmm

I dobnt like to hear this mate, cos i am a part ownder in a software/BI company in Jakarta.

contact me direct at rosshilton#gmail.com

lets talk!

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#27633 - 26 Dec 05 22:06 Re: Why better to invest somewhere else
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
Pooh Bah

Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
Loc: Centre of the Universe
Indonesia is certainly amongst the worst countries in the world in terms of how long it takes to set up a company. Just to get investment approval can take months in some cases, and the subsequent bureaucracy is also daunting to say the least.

my company, okusi, has set up hundreds of companies over the years. we have now got it down to a relatively fine art, in terms of processing time. what used to take us 3-4 months several years ago we can now do in about 8 weeks. and this is far faster than any of our competitors (such as they are in this very undesirable field!).

compare this to singapore, where you can set up a company online in about 2 hours!! sure, you have to either be a legal resident of the island, or at least have a resident director, but it just shows that company incorporation does not need months as is the case in Indonesia.

anyway, once the Indonesian company is setup, it's fairly smooth sailing ...
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#27634 - 27 Dec 05 07:40 Re: Why better to invest somewhere else
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Quote:
Originally posted by KuKuKaChu:
anyway, once the Indonesian company is setup, it's fairly smooth sailing ...
If you can call working with Rubber Time smooth sailing!

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#27635 - 27 Dec 05 08:05 Re: Why better to invest somewhere else
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
Pooh Bah

Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
Loc: Centre of the Universe
Quote:
Originally posted by rosco:
Quote:
Originally posted by KuKuKaChu:
anyway, once the Indonesian company is setup, it's fairly smooth sailing ...
If you can call working with Rubber Time smooth sailing!
yes, it's always advisable to pack a good deal of flexibility and patience when on your way to indonesia. though money can act as a substitute in some cases.
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#27636 - 27 Dec 05 08:48 Re: Why better to invest somewhere else
Ena Offline
Member*

Registered: 26 Nov 05
Posts: 765
Loc: Sydney
So my plan of a kaki lima mobile hotdog stand in Senen will be really bad news??? Ahhhhhhhhhhh.
All my hopes and dreams....
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#27637 - 27 Dec 05 10:34 Re: Why better to invest somewhere else
Risad Gir Offline
Member*

Registered: 09 Dec 05
Posts: 548
Loc: Surabaya
Quote:
Originally posted by Ena:
So my plan of a kaki lima mobile hotdog stand in Senen will be really bad news??? Ahhhhhhhhhhh.
All my hopes and dreams....
As said by KuKuKaChu,

In Singapore you can establish a company and be finished implement ting it before those hotdogs are well done.

So better you sell your hot-dogs on Bugis street. wink
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#27638 - 27 Dec 05 11:21 Re: Why better to invest somewhere else
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Quote:
Originally posted by KuKuKaChu:
Indonesia is certainly amongst the worst countries in the world in terms of how long it takes to set up a company. Just to get investment approval can take months in some cases, and the subsequent bureaucracy is also daunting to say the least.
To be fair, it probably takes just as long in Australia.

You have to provide all sorts of crap and obtain all sorts of permission.

Even the government bodies that are supposed to assist actually tie you up in a mass of forms and paperwork then do bugger all to help you. It doesnt help that most of the public servants are recent migrants who dont understand the system themselves and are talking to you in their second (or even third) language.

you really do need the assitance of someone who knows the rules and processes.

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#27639 - 27 Dec 05 11:32 Re: Why better to invest somewhere else
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Quote:
Originally posted by Risad_Gir:
How long did it take you for the implementation?
Is your business running well?
How many of you left Indonesia again before implementation was finished?
How about bureaucracy and corruption?

I donít know but I beginning to think you have to be a complete moron to invest in Indonesia.
Cheers,
Some answers -

Q1. i didn't set up the company. It was set up by some well established Expats who are in partnership with well connected Indonesians. I used their connections and relationships.

Q2. The busienss is actually doing quite well. We have recruited some very clever Developers and Business Analysts. they are low cost and we are looking at doing offshore work in Jakarta. (I feel a bit guilty because some of the team really would do well in Australia....)

Q3. Beaurocracy and corruption. I havent directly seen it, although it may well take place far higher up the chain. I see different cultural values, that did worry me at first. But I also see an amazing degree of fair play. If you get "ripped off" on one deal, you always seem to get rewarded in another way (another project or deal etc)


Dont give up or lose heart.

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#27640 - 06 Jan 06 01:11 Re: Why better to invest somewhere else
Risad Gir Offline
Member*

Registered: 09 Dec 05
Posts: 548
Loc: Surabaya
Thanks PB

Thanks for the info.
Happy everything went well in your case.
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#27641 - 13 Jan 06 15:33 Re: Why better to invest somewhere else
cherry Offline
Member**

Registered: 08 Nov 05
Posts: 1055
Loc: Indonesia
Quote:
Originally posted by Ena:
So my plan of a kaki lima mobile hotdog stand in Senen will be really bad news??? Ahhhhhhhhhhh.
All my hopes and dreams....
care in getting the opportunity is very importent especially in bussiness..
actually there are too many opportunities to begin efforts,
if we're talking about the opportunities in Indonesia it's would not had been finished, cause Indonesia is a country with many opportunities..
so that's why maybe there are too many foreigners came to Indonesia for business
as an Indonesian it's make me feel sad, cause most of the all companies in Indonesia, it was foreign company..
appearently..we (indonesian-ed) didn't have any opportunity to have owen company..
personally, I never stop try to looking for opportunity in business..
sothat, im not forever as employment but one day I have small company and I'll recruit for Indonesian only.. smile
ngga ada yang keberatan toh??
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#27642 - 13 Jan 06 15:39 Re: Why better to invest somewhere else
Risad Gir Offline
Member*

Registered: 09 Dec 05
Posts: 548
Loc: Surabaya
Ndak ada say.... I also recruit Indonesian only. And never had any other intentions then doing exactly that. And to own something, you have to invest and continue investing. Doesnít matter if your a foreign or a native.

I see many Indonesian Software development companies who do not invest at all in their people. Training Courses, latest equipment, latest software, even a free seminar is sometimes a no go becouse transport only is to expensive and a bad investment in their opinion.

All my programmers work for me... simply because I invest in them. It's not something I make up right now... they told me themselves. BTW... All of them are Indonesian. I love my employees and love to see them gain knowledge to become an even more important part of the company. And it doesnít bother or worry me at all, the idea that by doing so, they could start their company in the future and become my competitors.
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#27643 - 13 Jan 06 16:08 Re: Why better to invest somewhere else
cherry Offline
Member**

Registered: 08 Nov 05
Posts: 1055
Loc: Indonesia
oh..you're the one of foreigner come to Indonesia for bussiness?
so that's why you'r Indonesian very well,
where's your office any way? and what kind of?
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#27644 - 13 Jan 06 16:30 Re: Why better to invest somewhere else
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Me too. I own a part share in a small IT Buisness Intelligence company. We employ and train local Indonesians. Some are OK, some are good, some excellent and some are BRILLIANT. We plan to build IT systems for Australian customers in Jakarta. That way we find well paid work for good Indonesian workers. Hopefully we will be able to take some of the workers to Australia for visits to the customers.

Incidentally - so far i have made $0 out of this venture..... I dont make money out of this (yet) so I have to keep working for clients in Australia so I can eat. that is why tonight I am stuck in Sydney and not out dancing with you girls and guys.

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#27645 - 13 Jan 06 16:45 Re: Why better to invest somewhere else
Risad Gir Offline
Member*

Registered: 09 Dec 05
Posts: 548
Loc: Surabaya
Yepp... I know what you mean. In our company an average software development project takes about 16 man years, 8 developers on 1 project. After all the fuzz setting up a business there is no income for at least another 2 years. Long term investment $0 for me to. In two years we are selling the product in Europe and USA with the risk of never selling it because of competition, time to market these days etc.

But I'm not complaining because I invest in my people, and therfor I know we will make it and get something good out of it.

BTW... we are a Surabaya based company.
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#27646 - 13 Jan 06 16:51 Re: Why better to invest somewhere else
cherry Offline
Member**

Registered: 08 Nov 05
Posts: 1055
Loc: Indonesia
wow! as I told above, that there are too many foreigners came to Indonesia for business..
2 year ago I've ever worked in foreign company in in Surabaya, my all boss were foreigners, some of them were very nice and some of them very cruel and sometimes no compromise with the staffs..

but beside of all, they're very profesional and I got so many expriences from them.. smile

actually, most of Indonesians are very smart people, but sometimes they couldn't take an opportuntiy to buid a small company..cause in Indonesian minded money is everything, if we don't have money enough we couldn't do anything..
so that's way most of Indonesian prefer to became an employement than an entrepreneur..
inculding me.. smile
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#27647 - 13 Jan 06 17:05 Re: Why better to invest somewhere else
Risad Gir Offline
Member*

Registered: 09 Dec 05
Posts: 548
Loc: Surabaya
Quote:
Originally posted by cherry:
actually, most of Indonesians are very smart people,
Thatís on of the main reason I'm investing in Indonesia. Itís not all about cheap labor. It doesnít work that simple. Donít just look at salary, how about secondary things like education, training, opportunity to work abroad from time to time to implement systems in Europe, USA etc.

My employees training for their first year is gone costs more then their first yearís payment. Itís way too simple to look just at salary.
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risad@hotdudes.cum

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#27648 - 13 Jan 06 17:11 Re: Why better to invest somewhere else
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Quote:
Originally posted by Risad Gir:
Donít just look at salary, how about secondary things like education, training, opportunity to work abroad from time to time to implement systems in Europe, USA etc.
Exactly, our guys (they are all men) are learning/practicing the application of cutting edge software. They can earn a fortune once they get really good, and can move anywhere in the world.

we plan to rotate them through Australia for a few months at a time (so we always have Developers avaiable on site). They are very clever guys, and they work hard. we will ensure that they get rewarded.

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#27649 - 13 Jan 06 17:20 Re: Why better to invest somewhere else
Risad Gir Offline
Member*

Registered: 09 Dec 05
Posts: 548
Loc: Surabaya
Quote:
Originally posted by Polar Bear:
Exactly, our guys (they are all men)
You should at least have 1 secretary plus PB laugh

Come on... remember $0 ??? .. we have to get some kind of compensation for all the trouble were getting our self in to wink he he he he he ...
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#27650 - 13 Jan 06 17:36 Re: Why better to invest somewhere else
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Never thought of that!!!

Is sex plus REALLY true or just a story???

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#27651 - 13 Jan 06 17:45 Re: Why better to invest somewhere else
Risad Gir Offline
Member*

Registered: 09 Dec 05
Posts: 548
Loc: Surabaya
Did you ever once caught me lie in this forum? :rolleyes:
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#27652 - 13 Jan 06 17:46 Re: Why better to invest somewhere else
cherry Offline
Member**

Registered: 08 Nov 05
Posts: 1055
Loc: Indonesia
Indonesia had quality people..but sometimes they didn't awared about that, they more liked become Indonesian guests worker...
cause they could gain much money..
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#27653 - 13 Jan 06 17:49 Re: Why better to invest somewhere else
Risad Gir Offline
Member*

Registered: 09 Dec 05
Posts: 548
Loc: Surabaya
Quote:
Originally posted by Polar Bear:
we plan to rotate them through Australia for a few months at a time (so we always have Developers avaiable on site).
Now... when you get your self a secretary plus... you can get her to rotate as well. How is that?

Some free advice for you, right there.. wink
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risad@hotdudes.cum

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#27654 - 13 Jan 06 18:32 Re: Why better to invest somewhere else
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Quote:
Originally posted by cherry:
actually, most of Indonesians are very smart people, but sometimes they couldn't take an opportuntiy to buid a small company..cause in Indonesian minded money is everything, if we don't have money enough we couldn't do anything..
so that's way most of Indonesian prefer to became an employement than an entrepreneur..
inculding me.. smile
Hmmmm.

To be honest, most Indonesians lack the "drive" to be entrepreneurs. I learned two things very quickly:

1. What would be done by one man in one hour in the west will take two men two days in Jakarta.

2. Jam Karet!!!!

maybe thats smart......

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#27655 - 14 Jan 06 12:37 Re: Why better to invest somewhere else
cherry Offline
Member**

Registered: 08 Nov 05
Posts: 1055
Loc: Indonesia
that's one of Indonesian's illnesses..
NGAREEETTT TERUSSS...
as an Indonesian, I really don't Like!!

according by survey that I had been carried out..
why most of Indonesian always "JAM KARET"

having sex in the morning it's around 5am till 6am, the house in Bekasi and then the office in Jakarta..
Indonesians have a keywords "Relax..relax..for 5 minutes"
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