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#13509 - 19 Aug 06 13:50 Inside the Islamic group accused by MI5 and FBI
Magpie Offline
Member**

Registered: 29 Mar 06
Posts: 1306
Loc: The Toon
Paul Lewis
Saturday August 19, 2006

Guardian
http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,,329557144-111274,00.html

Thousands of young Muslim men are attending meetings in east London every week run by a fundamentalist Islamic movement believed by western intelligence agencies to be used as a fertile recruiting ground by extremists.
Tablighi Jamaat, whose activities are being monitored by the security services, holds the tightly guarded meetings on an industrial estate close to the area where some of the suspects in last week's terror raids were arrested.

This week it emerged that at least seven of the 23 suspects under arrest on suspicion of involvement in the plot to blow up transatlantic airliners may have participated in Tablighi events.

The organisation - influenced by a branch of Saudi Arabian Islam known as Wahhabism - has already been linked to two of the July 7 suicide bombers who attended a Tablighi mosque at the organisation's headquarters in Dewsbury, West Yorkshire. The jailed shoe bomber Richard Reid is also known to have attended Tablighi meetings.

Until now, the leaders of Tablighi Jamaat - which means "group of preachers" - have refused to open their doors to outsiders, shrouding the organisation in mystery.

Tablighi enthusiasts say that the organisation, founded by a scholar in India in the 1920s, has no involvement with terrorism and simply encourages Muslims to follow the example of the prophet and proselytise the teachings of the Qur'an. As one sympathetic imam put it, they were the "Jehovah's Witnesses of Islam".

On Thursday evening, the Guardian witnessed around 3,000 men from as far afield as Great Yarmouth and the Isle of Wight stream through the backstreets of Stratford to the meeting. There, at the gates of a seemingly derelict industrial site, men in fluorescent jackets waved those who are known to the Tablighi Jamaat hierarchy under a security barrier, and into one of three fields that surround a cluster of prefabricated buildings which form a temporary mosque.

As the Guardian entered the complex one person spoke admiringly about the "main man" for the south-east division of Tablighi Jamaat. "We can't call him a prophet," he said. "No one can be a prophet. But when you meet him you'll realise. He's helped a lot of people in Walthamstow to follow the right path, the path of the prophet. He'll talk to you openly this evening and everything will make sense."

Seconds later, the main man stood next to his red van in Islamic dress and a smart blue waistcoat as hundreds of men, many carrying suitcases and sleeping bags, filed past him into a network of six rooms cobbled together with planks of wood and corrugated plastic windows. He later said he was from Walthamstow.

The largest room was reserved for the main speaker, an elder from Preston who spoke in Urdu. His sermon was relayed through a microphone to five other rooms in which interpreters provided simultaneous translation into English, Arabic, Sinhala, Turkish and Somali.

The English-speaking room heaved as a sea of faces, white, black and Asian, spilled into the hallway. Most were teenagers and men in their 20s and 30s dressed in Islamic dress, caps and beards. Some came in suits and ties, others in jeans and hoodies. There were old men too, who weaved slowly through to the front of the room, and a few young boys.

The Walthamstow man took a seat in the middle of the room to interpret proceedings. The murmur of hundreds of whispering voices stopped as he put on his headphones. "We come to submit our will to Allah," he began. "We have to live the life that Allah has prescribed for us. We have been invited into Allah's house."

He continued to translate the preacher's message. "If a person is drowning, the man who saves him needs to take him out of the water. If he has swallowed too much water, that water must come out. At the moment we are in a worldly ocean and we are all drowning. For us to become successful, we must come out of this world for a short period of time."

Although not a scholar, the interpreter is deeply respected. Quietly, some in the congregation whisper that he has seen miracles - the sign of a truly committed Tablighi.

After an hour the preacher concluded with a call for followers to join the effort and commit to a trip away. "We must leave our houses, our businesses, our families, for a short period of time, and follow the path of Allah and practise the ways of the prophet, going from mosque to mosque," said the interpreter. "Then [the behaviour] will become second nature to us. We shall go to India and Pakistan for four months to follow these ways."

What Tablighi followers call "the effort" - travelling around the country for three days or 10 days, depending on their level of commitment - is key to the organisation. Once they have completed the first stage, they may undertake a 40-day trip, which is likely to entail travel around Europe.

Finally, a Tablighi member will be given the opportunity to take a four-month journey to Pakistan or India. During their "efforts" members are encouraged to emulate the life of the prophet and show others "the path".

On domestic trips, members are sent to communities where they will have most leverage. In September, for example, students will be sent to universities throughout the country.

Later in the evening, the rooms are transformed into dining halls. A small group of men who know several of the Walthamstow suspects gathered round to share out plastic plates of chickpeas, lamb and naan bread, washed down with cans of peach juice and Coke.

"It will shock you but we all used to be deep into drugs and crime and all that," said one man, in his 20s, who went on a three-day trip to Woking with one of the suspects arrested in last week's raids. "Walthamstow used to be a dodgy area. Tablighi changed all that."

A former body builder showed pictures on his mobile of the "pumped-up gym fanatic" he used to be. After spells in prison, he said, he went on a life-changing four-month trip to Pakistan. "I went to places you wouldn't believe," he said. "There are people in Pakistan and India who know less about the prophet than people in east London."

The Urdu interpreter from Walthamstow acknowledged that Tablighi Jamaat had roused suspicions. "I know three or four people who come here regularly who are informants," he said. "After September 11 the security services met with our elders at our headquarters and told them that they keep the flight records of every Tablighi member who travels abroad. But we are not worried. They can close us down and it will not matter because the effort will continue. We have no fear."

He said he was not worried about the Walthamstow suspect he knows best, a young man he recently took on a 40-day trip to Scotland. "Anyone who suffers for Islam will be rewarded," he said.

Asked about the association between Tablighi Jamaat and terrorist groups, he replied: "Tablighi is like Oxford University. We have intelligent people - doctors, solicitors, businessmen - but one or two will become drug dealers, fraudsters. But you won't blame Oxford University for that. You see, it does not matter if someone speaks in favour or against this effort. Everything happens with the will of God."

Another follower added: "Sometimes the youngsters say that if they saw President Bush they would chop his head off, and things like that. But we're discouraged from talking about politics. If elders say these things it is out of anger. They're not dangerous, they can't actually do anything."

By the early hours, 300 followers had volunteered for a three-day trip. One man who knows six of the suspects arrested last week leaned against the wall, the City of London glowing behind his shoulders, and adjusted his cap. "Do you see now?" he said.

"Tablighi is not the problem. It is the solution. It is another world in here, completely different from the world outside."
_________________________
"People say funny things......."

Peter Kay

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#13510 - 19 Aug 06 13:51 Re: Inside the Islamic group accused by MI5 and FBI
Magpie Offline
Member**

Registered: 29 Mar 06
Posts: 1306
Loc: The Toon
Five key questions for anti-terror investigation
· Arrested group were tracked for nearly a year
· Pakistani security services helped watch suspects

Sandra Laville
Saturday August 19, 2006

Guardian

Nine days ago Paul Stephenson, the deputy commissioner of the Metropolitan police, told the public his officers had thwarted a plot to commit "mass murder on an unimaginable scale".
It was an apocalyptic scenario challenged at the time by journalists, who forced an admission that what was meant by these words was "on a scale never before witnessed in Britain", reducing the potential death toll from tens of thousands to hundreds. Today 23 suspects, two of them women, are being held on suspicion of plotting to commit terrorist offences. While police interrogate them, there are many unanswered questions.

Was there any plot at all?

The laws on contempt of court, designed to ensure defendants have a fair trial, make it difficult for counter-terrorism officials to answer this question openly, but security sources have endorsed information coming out of the US as accurate. It is clear that the security services have collected a vast amount of surveillance material over the past year, which they claim points to a plot in the making.

The original tipoff came from a Muslim informant, thought to be close to one of those arrested. In a long surveillance operation, the security services watched suspects at their homes and offices, in meetings they attended and at their mosques and gyms. The operation involved tracing the money that went in and out of their bank accounts and involved the Pakistani security services.

What physical evidence has been gathered?

Officially police will not confirm that any material has been recovered. Sources have told the BBC a suitcase containing bomb components was recovered from woodland being searched in High Wycombe. The BBC also reported last night that police had found martyr videos on laptops in the course of searches. Reports that a gun was discovered in the same woods remain unconfirmed.

The home secretary, John Reid, said this week that "material of a substantial" nature had emerged in the searches of 49 properties in High Wycombe, east London and Birmingham.

The Guardian has established that scientists at the government's forensic explosives laboratory at Fort Halstead, Kent, are examining substances which have been seized during the searches.

What were the explosives at the centre of the alleged plot?

Police sources have confirmed that the alleged plot involved the use of TATP, triacetone triperoxide, which was to be made up from liquids. This has led to speculation that peroxide, acetone and sulphuric acid might have been disguised as bottles of drink to get through hand baggage checks. Forensic explosives experts say if this was the case the liquids would have had to be mixed on the plane to attain the crystallised TATP explosive.

Gerry Murray, of the Forensic Science Agency in Northern Ireland, believes this would be very difficult, particularly if carried out in the toilet of a passenger jet. The liquids have to be kept at freezing point when they are mixed and the TATP crystals must be dried before being ignited, a process which could take several hours.

Some 250g (9oz) of solid TATP would be needed for a substantial explosion, but Mr Murray said if the individual had never made the explosive before he would need a great deal of luck to manufacture it on a plane. Another theory is that pre-made explosives would have been hidden in the false bottom of plastic drinks bottles to foil hand luggage checks.

What can we read into the fact that no one has been charged yet?

Very little. The police and the home secretary have indicated that they believe they have arrested about 19 of the main suspects. Under anti-terrorism legislation, officers are allowed to question suspects for 28 days if approved by a judge, and it is likely the police will want to use the full period before charging anyone. They are unlikely to bring charges against anyone until they have completed thorough searches, which have been going on at 49 separate locations. Anti-terrorism officers will be liaising with the Crown Prosecution Service.

It is likely also that a handful, about five or six, of the suspects will be released without charge.

Was it really necessary to impose such strict security measures at British airports?

It seems unlikely. The threat level in the UK was raised to critical, which means an attack is imminent, after the arrest of what Mr Reid said were all the "main suspects".

Given that, it seems the measures forced upon British airports for several days were unnecessary. Police sources and the government indicated that if they were looking for anyone else those individuals were peripheral to the inquiry. The argument that the disruption of such a plot might spark others to bring forward terrorist actions is debatable.

The security services allege that this was a very specific, well-planned plot, which took nearly a year to put together. It seems unfeasible that others were planning to do the same thing in the same way.
_________________________
"People say funny things......."

Peter Kay

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#13511 - 19 Aug 06 15:16 Re: Inside the Islamic group accused by MI5 and FBI
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Today Jihad Jack walked out of jail on a technicality. He didn’t have a lawyer present when he admitted, in Pakistan, that he was being paid by Al-Qaeda to be a sleeper agent in Melbourne. He had a false passport….

The answer is not to arrest these people. Not to try them. Not to imprison them.

Simply assassinate them one by one. I am willing to step up to them mark.

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#13512 - 19 Aug 06 17:39 Re: Inside the Islamic group accused by MI5 and FBI
Piss Salon Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 27 Jun 06
Posts: 4039
Loc: Jakpus
The guys we spoke to laughed when asked if Tablighi Jamaat where a terror organization, using the exact same statement above, namely that it was the "Jehovah's Witnesses of Islam". In fact they are sort of looked down on because they are not militant, preaching "love and peace". "They are the type of guys that when they knock, you pretend you are not home."

Whether or not, this is true or not, who can say at this point. Whether some of them met under the cover of these meetings, probably.

Right, off to my first English League game. Am dead excited.

Come on Reading. I hope the fans take to outsiders.
_________________________
place within us love that truly gives, tenderness that truly unites, self-offering that tells the truth and does not deceive, forgiveness that truly receives, loving physical union that welcomes

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#13513 - 19 Aug 06 20:45 Re: Inside the Islamic group accused by MI5 and FBI
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
The nature of clandestine terror organisations is that they deny being terrorists, and try to appear 'good" or "normal".

what do you think would happen if the guys being interviewed said:

We are all fully Tablighi Jamaat here mate, its a full on terrorist organisation, dedidcated to killing and maiming the English. we hold training on suicide bombing, we carry out sabatage, we......

they would all be fucking arrested!!!!!

Of course they say "we are good little Muslims.

Let me lose with a pair of pliars and a blowtorch and they might start telling the truth.

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#13514 - 20 Aug 06 06:24 Re: Inside the Islamic group accused by MI5 and FBI
Piss Salon Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 27 Jun 06
Posts: 4039
Loc: Jakpus
Interesting approach, and I have no doubt it would work in the short-term. But PB, these guys are in for the long haul brother and it would only exacerbate the situation. I know u would probably think that is a good thing and would bring about a quicker confrontation between ‘us’ and ‘them’, but it is a war that nobody will win.

Anyway, fuck it. I am drunk and coked up. Reading won too, BTW. They were down 2-0 and came back to win the fucking thing 3-2. My first premiership game and it was a classic. Made me horny.

I would also like to say that I got my first PM from one of the JakChat girls and I think she wants to shag me.
_________________________
place within us love that truly gives, tenderness that truly unites, self-offering that tells the truth and does not deceive, forgiveness that truly receives, loving physical union that welcomes

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#13515 - 20 Aug 06 09:43 Re: Inside the Islamic group accused by MI5 and FBI
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
This site is some sort of giant adult shagfinding service.....

I dont understand the logic, becuase JKT is a wide open market. A bule with $50 in his pocket is a walking target for 80% of the girls under 30.

You dont need to meet them on a web site and then meet them later in the "flesh".... Just go to Atrium Plaza and pick one up as you need one.

Take my advice - DONT tell any JKT girl when you are in town, or you will be slappergrammed with SMS pleading with you to meet them.....

(Appologies to anyone I may have offended).

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#13516 - 20 Aug 06 09:56 Re: Inside the Islamic group accused by MI5 and FBI
Dilli Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 26 Feb 06
Posts: 8044
Loc: Nearest Bar
"you will be slappergrammed with SMS pleading with you to meet them....."

Simpler than that, dont let them have your phone number!

_________________________
Menace to Sobriety


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#13517 - 20 Aug 06 10:05 Re: Inside the Islamic group accused by MI5 and FBI
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Quote:
Originally posted by Piss Salon:
I know u would probably think that is a good thing and would bring about a quicker confrontation between ‘us’ and ‘them’, but it is a war that nobody will win.
We WILL win when we start using our brains.

The answer is:

1. Use psychops. Ridicule the radicals in an Islamic way, to destroy credibility... Tail them and find out the dirt. The hooks they shag, the debts they don’t pay, the kids they father and then abandon. Not stuff that would offend the West, but stuff that offends Islam. Most of these leaders are two faced wankers. (I saw an Arabic Imam pick up a hooker at Blok M late last year. Now If I had a camera…..)

2. Develop a new moderate flexible Islam, and PUSH PUSH PUSH it. A “caring sharing” Islam.

3. Develop STRONG media control of Islam. Open TV stations, newspapers, radio stations, rumour machines. Battle then in the hearts and minds.

4. Start strong WESTERN values education, make it COMPULSORY in schools and for migrants. Make it good, make it credible. Show the Muslims what they gain from the West.

5. Ban publications, radio stations, newspapers, in foreign languages. We Speak ENGLISH cos we are ENGLISH. Want to live in ENGLAND? The lear ENGLISH…..

On top of the above, you also need to understand and use Islamic mentality to advantage. Islamic tend to admire strength and cruelty, not compassion, which they see as a weakness. Richard III wasn’t doing very well in his Crusade until he slaughtered 2700 prisoners in full view of the Saladin’s army (August 20, 1191, at Acre). After that the Muslims were reluctant to engage Richard in combat, and openly admired his strength and cruelty. Similarly the Arabs respected Israel when it held the Gaza Strip and Southern Lebanon by force. Notice that it is olny after they hand back this land that the attacks commenced.

Islam respects and admires terror. This is why they use it. We must use it, and be more terrifying than they are. If Bush flatted Damascus with a single atomic bomb the entire Islamic movement would shut up and be quiet for ever. But Bush doesn’t have the guts to do it, the Arabs know this, and don’t respect him because of this lack of guts.

Vote for me. I would push the fucking button!!!!!!!

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#13518 - 20 Aug 06 10:17 Re: Inside the Islamic group accused by MI5 and FBI
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Quote:
Originally posted by Dilligaf:
"you will be slappergrammed with SMS pleading with you to meet them....."

Simpler than that, dont let them have your phone number!

But why bother in the first place?

If I want to chat to a girl i can walk into any plaza and fight them off with a big stick. Have your passport hanging out of your back pocket (I have UK in one and Australian in the other) and a fat wallet in your hand, and suddenly you are Brad Pitt at a premier.

The trick then is to string them on with out actually spending money on them. Buy them one drink, and give them undivided attention for 12 minutes, tell them three things about you, then give your 100% attention to the fattest ugliest girl you can see.

Attention span is in 15 minute blocks, so 12 minutes leaves them wanting, and the human mind can absorb 3 things in one session. They think they know all about you.


Insecurity will work its way into their mind. If you pay attention to the fat ugly girl, then they must be even fatter, uglier and less "wantable". So they will try VERY hard to get you back. After all, they “had” you for so long (12 minutes) and they know you so well (3 things)…….

One drink, 12 minutes of your time, and you are in bed with them.

Of course, getting them out of your life later is a problem. But so is getting the slappergram artist out of your life, and you haven’t shagged her…..

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