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#1077 - 10 Mar 06 15:00 Fate, Destiny.... do they have a role in our lives or are we in control?
kumar Offline
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Registered: 08 Feb 06
Posts: 122
Loc: Jakarta
But many times you will realise that Life is NOT going the way you planned, and interesting events/people/situations pop up.
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#1078 - 10 Mar 06 15:14 Re: Fate, Destiny.... do they have a role in our lives or are we in control?
g00f13 Offline
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Registered: 12 Nov 05
Posts: 739
Loc: earth
Kumar, life is always unpredictable. No matter how careful one plans it. The journey will never be a straight and narrow path. One will always encounter branches, side streets, highways, byways, ayam in Blok M, ciliwung meluap, etc.

PB will probably concur with me, even in IT, when we plan on a project, the project has never run smoothly. That's why there will always be contingency plan and/or plan B built into it.

Fate, destiny, karma, were always instilled in me since I was a kid. So yeah I do believe in those.

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#1079 - 10 Mar 06 15:28 Re: Fate, Destiny.... do they have a role in our lives or are we in control?
kumar Offline
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Registered: 08 Feb 06
Posts: 122
Loc: Jakarta
Do you believe that Fate has had a hand in your life? Are we destined to follow a certain path in life? How do the concepts of Fate, Destiny and Karma fit with a belief in Free Will?
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Take care, not too much, be good, not too much, keep lubricated, never enough!

It was simply excellent, it was simply sensual, it was simply sublime.

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#1080 - 10 Mar 06 16:37 Re: Fate, Destiny.... do they have a role in our lives or are we in control?
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Quote:
Originally posted by g00f13:
PB will probably concur with me, even in IT, when we plan on a project, the project has never run smoothly. That's why there will always be contingency plan and/or plan B built into it.
The best laid plans of men and mice (and Polar Bears)...

Just when you think you understand where the project is going - woooooops everything turns over again. the client changes the scope, or even the entire project.

Things that have actually happened to me:

1 .you interview programmers - they arrive in a suit, looking clean and smart. by the end of thr fist week they are in jeans and dirty T shirt, and are snorting cocain in the toilets.

2. The client keeps changing the project scope. after 6 months the scope has been changed 20 times, and is now exactly what it was in the begining.

3. the software doesnt work. It works for everyone else. But for you, for no known reason, it crashes, locks up, or gives corrupted data. no one knows why.

4. The project goes on for so long that the technology advances past it. The data sources you start out with no longer exist, your software no longer runs on the new operating system.

5. you discover your DBA is shagging both of the BAs on the project. The find out, and have a fight. you have to separate them. The DBA is roling on the floor laughing.

6. after spending $18 million on a project the client "changes their mind" and abandons it. Yoo have a repution as the guy who lost $18 million.

and so it goes on.....

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#1081 - 10 Mar 06 16:53 Re: Fate, Destiny.... do they have a role in our lives or are we in control?
cherry Offline
Member**

Registered: 08 Nov 05
Posts: 1055
Loc: Indonesia
[QUOTE]Originally posted by kumar:
But many times you will realise that Life is NOT going the way you planned, and interesting events/people/situations pop up. [/QUOTE

as a human... I believe with fate, destiny and also karma..
the our fate that's in our hands..
apakah manusia memang harus mengikuti jaringan nasibnya, tanpa punya hak untuk untuk menetapkan masa depannya sendiri dan apakah manusia tidak bebas memberi warna pada kanvas kehidupannya
I believe with destiny, but..what happened in my life...i thought that's not a destiny that I must be regretted...but, it's a process of the long journey that I must be passed to become better...
Karma frown Sometimes I felt the fear with karma, because if karma that true happened to myself...That's meant tha I must yield..
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#1082 - 10 Mar 06 16:54 Re: Fate, Destiny.... do they have a role in our lives or are we in control?
g00f13 Offline
Member*

Registered: 12 Nov 05
Posts: 739
Loc: earth
I believe that fate has had a hand in my life. I don't know when or how many times or how it came about. Fate is intangible. I don't know about 'we' but I am destined to follow a certain path. However to get to whatever destination, there is a thing call the journey. This journey can be a mix of rough, smooth, with plenty of distractions, undulations, potholes, detours, etc, along the way. With that journey one will make use of one's karma whether to do good or bad depending one's will. The will can and should be freely expressed as one's desire. When one's will is to do good, one's will have a good karma and vice versa. Now, one's should never ever expect anything in return. That is not called karma. One's should give and/or do willingly from the bottom of one's heart without expecting anything for reward.

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#1083 - 10 Mar 06 17:03 Re: Fate, Destiny.... do they have a role in our lives or are we in control?
Macan Tutul Offline
Pujangga Muda

Registered: 02 Dec 05
Posts: 1502
Loc: Jungle and cage ;)
Quote:
Originally posted by kumar:
Do you believe that Fate has had a hand in your life? Are we destined to follow a certain path in life? How do the concepts of Fate, Destiny and Karma fit with a belief in Free Will?
I think both of them, we, people, human need to try and try, and about Karma, I think just look this proverb :
"Who sow the seed, she/he will harvest the result"
_________________________
" Don't be shy with yourself, you have lots of talent without you notice....that's human, just be who you are."

(Memoirs of 3/3/2007)

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#1084 - 10 Mar 06 17:18 Re: Fate, Destiny.... do they have a role in our lives or are we in control?
Ena Offline
Member*

Registered: 26 Nov 05
Posts: 765
Loc: Sydney
I hope the bastards who nicked my car on monday have the same thing happen to them.It even had a flat battery!!Must have been towed-the council nor police know nothing.Sheesh!!!Bloody cars.
On the plus side I have a job interview for a job that might be good....yes its local govt-so I may become the laziest worker in the world in line with their performance requirements haha.
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#1085 - 10 Mar 06 18:47 Re: Fate, Destiny.... do they have a role in our lives or are we in control?
g00f13 Offline
Member*

Registered: 12 Nov 05
Posts: 739
Loc: earth
C'mon now Ena, the local govts are just actively challenged.

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#1086 - 10 Mar 06 19:13 Re: Fate, Destiny.... do they have a role in our lives or are we in control?
g00f13 Offline
Member*

Registered: 12 Nov 05
Posts: 739
Loc: earth
What's your opinion about the topic, Kumar?

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#1087 - 11 Mar 06 10:37 Re: Fate, Destiny.... do they have a role in our lives or are we in control?
kumar Offline
Member+

Registered: 08 Feb 06
Posts: 122
Loc: Jakarta
Quote:
Originally posted by g00f13:
What's your opinion about the topic, Kumar?
Our destiny is not something imposed upon us but we are all the time weaving the pattern of our destiny, of our fate, of our future by the threads of our thoughts, desires and actions. We live normally in three worlds - physical, emotional and mental - and have bodies appropriate to each. As we act during our daily life, we create "karma" or causes in these three worlds by our thoughts, desires and actions, and shape our destiny.
_________________________
Take care, not too much, be good, not too much, keep lubricated, never enough!

It was simply excellent, it was simply sensual, it was simply sublime.

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#1088 - 11 Mar 06 10:49 Re: Fate, Destiny.... do they have a role in our lives or are we in control?
Dilli Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 26 Feb 06
Posts: 8044
Loc: Nearest Bar
I sort of operate on the "Shit Happens" view on life. However, I have encountered synchronicity on a few occassions which I have found to be- well not to put too fine a point on - weird.
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#1089 - 11 Mar 06 11:39 Re: Fate, Destiny.... do they have a role in our lives or are we in control?
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Shit certainly happenes, but sometimes, just a few times, when you least expect it, everything balances out. Karam takes place, you get what you deserve, and other people get what they deserve.....

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#1090 - 14 Mar 06 09:17 Re: Fate, Destiny.... do they have a role in our lives or are we in control?
hanabi Offline
Member+++

Registered: 11 Mar 06
Posts: 436
Loc: Here and there...
I would put free will on one side and destiny on the other side. I believe that I've decided my own destiny with my free will, but each time I projected it, there was always ceteris paribus and uncontrollable factors, which were good to create surprises. In a different realm, I already have my own call so that I only need to follow it. It seems that I lack of freedom, but having freedom can be a curse as well, no? In fact, it would be a total freedom when I'm free from being myself, free from being existence. It would be a total surrendering. However, there's a journey to get to the self and to find the call which is always personal and only us who knows for ourselves, not to mix up with brain washing of life bombers or herds following a religion flag. Anyway, I guess this is what's called realization through liberation and enlightenment.

Shit happens, but still it's us who puts the significance of that shit. A hero is born from hardship, battles, and shit, lots of it.

Karma is part of what goes around comes around. I've never thought about it, but I don't think that it's the whole thing. If shit happens to me, it doesn't necessarily come from my bad deeds before. As for me, the intention matters more than the act and life is too short to regret the past and worry about the future. Keep rocking!
_________________________
Crossing the bridge of reason... "Let the lover be disgraceful, crazy, absentminded. Someone sober will worry about things going badly. Let the lover be."

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#1091 - 14 Mar 06 11:22 Re: Fate, Destiny.... do they have a role in our lives or are we in control?
Dilli Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 26 Feb 06
Posts: 8044
Loc: Nearest Bar
Karma & Zen, both strangely linked. Fate , Destiny, both are part of the journey through life!

The journey of a thousand miles begins with a broken fan belt and a flat tyre.
_________________________
Menace to Sobriety


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#1092 - 14 Mar 06 11:32 Re: Fate, Destiny.... do they have a role in our lives or are we in control?
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
In 1998 I was studying Management Theory. For this particular degree I had to study philosophy. The subject for the semester was – “Does the Sum of Chaos = Order”

My answer was that is must, and I used the swinging pen allegory to prove it.

A pen swings on a cord over a sheet of white paper. The pen drips ink at random on the paper. The sheet starts out at order – a plain sheet sheet. As random drops of ink fall, it descends into chaos. But eventually the paper is covered in ink, and is a uniform blue colour. Thus the sum of chaos must equal order.

But - this only holds true if infinity is invoked. Only if the pen swings and drips for ever, can we guarantee the order of a blue sheet of paper.

This brought me into contact with the Chudnovsky Brothers and their search for numeric patterns in Pi. Gregory and David chudnovsky are brilliant (but unorthodox) mathematicians. Working alone, with the aid of a self built super computer called M ZERO, they successful calculated Pi out beyond 9 billion digits, and then carried out exhaustive work on finding patterns buried within it.

If they had found a clear reproducible pattern it would have changed mathematics for ever, and facilitated algorithms that would have made radical improvements to some computing applications. The actual algorithm that they used to calculate Pi is now widely used in scientific commuting programs.

They didn’t find any solid patterns. Pi is thus mathematical infinity.

Which raised an interesting philosophical demonstration of infinity. If we were to calculate Pi to infinity, and then ascribe the Hex values into ACSI, you would have an infinite random series of letters.

Since infinity is, by its very nature infinite, all things are possible and must occur.

Contained within Pi is the Bible. And the Koran. And the Idiots guide to Origami. And the entire life story of Wallet Digga, in every known language. Every word ever written on JakChat is contained in Pi. Everyone’s life story. The true secret of life is contained in a simple mathematical calculation.

Thus any argument on fate, karma, and “it is written”, must take into account infinity.

Anyone interested take a look at :

http://www.wadanet.com/hasegawa/chud.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregory_Chudnovsky http://jubal.westnet.com/hyperdiscordia/library_of_babel.html

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#1093 - 14 Mar 06 11:41 Re: Fate, Destiny.... do they have a role in our lives or are we in control?
Dilli Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 26 Feb 06
Posts: 8044
Loc: Nearest Bar
Did Douglas Adams get it right when the ultimate answer was "42" or was he using the precursor to the Chudnovsky Brothers machine, know within Indonesia as the "Blok M Zero" computer.
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#1094 - 14 Mar 06 11:57 Re: Fate, Destiny.... do they have a role in our lives or are we in control?
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
All that it proves is that anything is possible....

BUT - a group of physicists now argue that time cannot exist. What does exist is an infinite number of parallel worlds, with our minds flicking through them.

Which could explain unusual phenomena such as ghosts, premonitions, psychics, flying saucers etc)

Time is completely relevant to the way it is viewed by the subject. For a moth that only lives for a day, each minute seems like a year. For a turtle, each year seems like a minute…..

Already Time-Space is a common concept. In 2003 Peter Lynds put froward a theory that destroyed thousands of years of understanding of time.

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#1095 - 14 Mar 06 12:35 Re: Fate, Destiny.... do they have a role in our lives or are we in control?
hanabi Offline
Member+++

Registered: 11 Mar 06
Posts: 436
Loc: Here and there...
Heard this somewhere... "Life is of time and time is of life"

Infinity is cool. Once I thought that beyond the chaos of the universe, of the life, is a grand structured system. Well, I've changed my mind then and prefer to let life free whether it's chaotic or in order. I'm happy for not knowing everything.

Seems like some of you guys working in IT. My office is having a project if any of you are interested.
http://www.dgmarket.com/eproc/np-notice.do~1199356
http://www.gfmrap.org/Procurement/court_adm.pdf

Lunch time!
_________________________
Crossing the bridge of reason... "Let the lover be disgraceful, crazy, absentminded. Someone sober will worry about things going badly. Let the lover be."

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#1096 - 14 Mar 06 12:48 Re: Fate, Destiny.... do they have a role in our lives or are we in control?
g00f13 Offline
Member*

Registered: 12 Nov 05
Posts: 739
Loc: earth
Hanabi, I know a guy who's the adviser to the RI govt. in regards to IT. You don't happen to work in the advisery commitee there, do you? Or you could be the person yourself.

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#1097 - 14 Mar 06 14:22 Re: Fate, Destiny.... do they have a role in our lives or are we in control?
hanabi Offline
Member+++

Registered: 11 Mar 06
Posts: 436
Loc: Here and there...
Quote:
Originally posted by g00f13:
Hanabi, I know a guy who's the adviser to the RI govt. in regards to IT. You don't happen to work in the advisery commitee there, do you? Or you could be the person yourself.
No, I don't and apparently I don't really know anybody. :rolleyes: But our IT advisor is a lady from the World Bank. I'm not doing IT, just kinda stuck here, frown working my ass off to get away in a couple of years more. Back to school and have vacation in every season... it would be fun! So what do you do Goof?
_________________________
Crossing the bridge of reason... "Let the lover be disgraceful, crazy, absentminded. Someone sober will worry about things going badly. Let the lover be."

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#1098 - 14 Mar 06 15:14 Re: Fate, Destiny.... do they have a role in our lives or are we in control?
g00f13 Offline
Member*

Registered: 12 Nov 05
Posts: 739
Loc: earth
Hanabi, I'm just a simple IT guy. What about you?

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#1099 - 14 Mar 06 16:05 Re: Fate, Destiny.... do they have a role in our lives or are we in control?
Ena Offline
Member*

Registered: 26 Nov 05
Posts: 765
Loc: Sydney
I am just simple!
_________________________
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=bIEOZCcaXzE

..take only what you need..

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#1100 - 14 Mar 06 18:22 Re: Fate, Destiny.... do they have a role in our lives or are we in control?
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Im just a dumb ass Polar bear trying to keep warm frown

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#1101 - 14 Mar 06 18:27 Re: Fate, Destiny.... do they have a role in our lives or are we in control?
cherry Offline
Member**

Registered: 08 Nov 05
Posts: 1055
Loc: Indonesia
I also just a simple girl...very simple wink
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