'Porn Made Marine A Killer'

Posted by: kenyeung

'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 17 Aug 07 17:35

Syam Ahmad Sanusi, a member of the Indonesian Navy, who moonlighted as a hitman, was sentenced to death in Feb 2005 for the murder of computer tycoon Budiarto Angsono. Several other Naval personnel were implicated in the murder. The Navy is now claiming that Syam Sanusi only became a killer because:
he watched porn films........

Yeah. right. Not because of the Armed Forces' established culture of soldiers moonlighting as guns for hire. Not because of corruption, greed (he was paid Rp2 million for the hit). Blame it all on porn...

Quoting: Chazizah Gusnita - detikcom

Syam 'Lemah' Setelah Ketagihan VCD Porno
17/08/2007 16:16 WIB
Jakarta - Sebelum menjadi pembunuh, Letda (Marinir) Syam Ahmad Sanusi, merupakan sosok yang alim. Dia tidak pernah melepas tasbih. Sayang, imannya lambat laun melemah seiring perkenalannya dengan VCD porno.

Perubahan sosok Syam ini disampaikan Wakil Komandan Pusat Pom AL Kolonel Laut PM King Kin Suroso di RS TNI AL Mintoharjo, Jl Bendungan Hilir, Jakarta, Jumat (17/8/2007).

Sebelum kenal VCD porno, Syam, kata King, tipikal orang yang tidak banyak tertawa. Hari-harinya selalu memegang tasbih dan ibadahnya tidak pernah ketinggalan. Keluarganya juga berada di lingkungan santri.

"Itu sebelum dia mengenal video porno. Setelah dia tahu video porno, dilihat dan diulang-ulang, akhirnya dia jadi lemah," seloroh King sembari tertawa.

Di gubuk persembunyian pembunuh bos PT Asaba, Boedyharto Angsono itu, yang berada di Pandeglang, Banten, aparat menemukan sejumlah barang bukti milik Syam. Antara lain 5 keping VCD porno. (fiq/umi)
Posted by: KuKuKaChuModerator

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 17 Aug 07 18:03

oh, well, that explains everything.
Posted by: Shesca

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 17 Aug 07 18:07

smile

I never thought of this ... smile
Posted by: Piss Salon

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 17 Aug 07 18:10

I would, at this point, like to blame porn also.
Posted by: Shesca

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 17 Aug 07 18:17

K. You can tell us more...
Posted by: Dilli

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 17 Aug 07 20:08

Look what it did to me, I have given up this evil media forever, well, until I see that one with Lulu and a horse can be downloaded
Posted by: DCShogun

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 19 Aug 07 15:49

The investigators knew they had the right guy when they realized he was the only soldier in all of TNI with soft, moisturized hands...

insert your own 'slippery slope' joke here.
Posted by: kenyeung

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 19 Aug 07 16:50

Hey DCShogun, next time you chat with Pak Try about the Tanjung Priok massacre and the Dili massacre, could you ask him whether he thinks SBY has the balls to throw Hendro and Muchdi in jail for ordering the murder of Munir?

Thanks
Posted by: yourfather

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 19 Aug 07 18:42

2 million for a hit.

Geez life is cheap....

Posted by: DCShogun

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 19 Aug 07 19:08

Are you implying that theres a connection? Or just trying to come up with one sentence that undermines four different political figures?
Posted by: kenyeung

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 19 Aug 07 19:51

Quoting: DCShogun
Are you implying that theres a connection? Or just trying to come up with one sentence that undermines four different political figures?


Try was never indicted over the Tanjung Priok massacre or the Dili massacre. So perhaps he has some insight into whether there's any chance of Hendro and Muchdi being put on trial for plotting Munir's death.
Posted by: DCShogun

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 19 Aug 07 20:05

Quoting: kenyeung
Quoting: DCShogun
Are you implying that theres a connection? Or just trying to come up with one sentence that undermines four different political figures?


Try was never indicted over the Tanjung Priok massacre or the Dili massacre. So perhaps he has some insight into whether there's any chance of Hendro and Muchdi being put on trial for plotting Munir's death.


Hmmm...maybe you have some 'special access' info that finally clears up the whole Munir mystery? Do tell.

Still not clear on what that has to do with Pak Try, Dili, and Tanjung. Your words are so crafty and indirect. I'll take a chance and say that you believe Pak Try should have been found guilty of both massacres AND NOW Hendro and pals are also getting away with murder? And since thay all are roughly from the same generation and have worked in politics over the same period, that they must be cut from the same cloth? And they are all certainly corrupt and dishonest butchers-cum-politicians?
Posted by: kenyeung

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 19 Aug 07 22:16

"Orang-orang yang mengacau itu harus ditembak, dan kami akan menembak mereka."
Posted by: DCShogun

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 20 Aug 07 00:37

Quoting: kenyeung
"Orang-orang yang mengacau itu harus ditembak, dan kami akan menembak mereka."


Well, as an experienced military analyst, Im not going to pretend I (or you) know the situation as well the commanders and their collectors. But I have been in the middle of those kind of situations. Very serious and tense situations. With all kinds of information coming in, sometimes conflicting. Add the fact that this was, at those times, a 3rd world, poorly equipped, uneducated/unprofessionalized miltary. This story above (with the moonlighting soldier) illustrates the poor decisionmaking skills of the average TNI enlisted soldier, even now. Often unreliable and sometimes not credible. I can only imagine the environment in which these generals had to make decisions.

I know a lot about Pak Try. Regardless of your feelings of right or wrong, Pak Try was found (multiple times) to have done no wrong. Even with all kinds of research and new infomation, a number of major personalities and outspoken critics of the gov't decisions throught the various hearings concede this about Pak Try while still blaming other decisionmakers. Furthermore, a number of major parties in the early 90's felt he was the perfect candidate for VP.

And if you think that corruption is the reason he and Benny M were not convicted, anyone who knows Pak Try will tell you that he was never wealthy, lives in VERY humble housing, and has given almost all of what he has to building schools and mosques (that aren't businesses by the way.) For some reason too, he inspires nothing but big smiles when he is seen in public, even now. Hardly seems like a personality hated throughout the land. His kids are not connected to any funny business either. And a knowledgeable statesman like yourself must know that he isnt the biggest fan of SBY.

I have no issue with you opining you opposition to whatever authority. As a blue-blooded American, I appreciate the value and purpose of occasional dissent in society. But your little quotes are comparable to sound bytes with little context. I'd rather hear about what you know, not what you Google.

I still dont see the connection to Munir. But answer me one thing. Why ask me such a question in the first place? Almost as if you wanted to make this personal for some reason...
Posted by: chewwyUK

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 20 Aug 07 08:39

... So this is what it is like to see a topic discussed without resorting to personal abuse. I think I like it
Posted by: riccardo

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 20 Aug 07 09:36

Try Sutrisno's office is above the Cazbar in Mega Kuningan. But DCShogun (and by the way, a big welcome to Jakchat), just because locals "smile at him" doesn't mean much about guilt or innocence here. If OJ Simpson were to walk through a black neighborhood, he'd get the same response from the locals.
Posted by: DCShogun

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 20 Aug 07 11:02

Quoting: riccardo
Try Sutrisno's office is above the Cazbar in Mega Kuningan. But DCShogun (and by the way, a big welcome to Jakchat), just because locals "smile at him" doesn't mean much about guilt or innocence here. If OJ Simpson were to walk through a black neighborhood, he'd get the same response from the locals.


Hi Riccardo. Thanks for the welcome, dude. I kinda disagree about the OJ reference. If OJ had shot hundreds of blacks, he wouldn't be getting smiles in black neighborhoods.

Virtually everyone 'in the know' has now accepted Pak Try's role in the events Mr. Yeung felt like bringing up out of the blue (for some reason that still eludes me.) This includes current politicians, NGOs, and, maybe more importantly, foreign governments (including the US). This is supported by their constant interest in his input in their respective 'causes' and activities. Many major ministers and diplomatic postings even attended his duaghter's recent wedding. He is in no way being shunned by anyone, not even SBY.

The collective knowledge and information gathering ability of this large set of people and organizations has resulted in an accepted confidence in Pak Try's motives and his ultimate 'innocence'. All this even though he is not in a financial or power/influence situation to do much for anyone. Only a few reporters and activists remain in the other camp.

Yes, he supports a Malaysian-Indonesian cooperation group in the office at Mega Kuningan. Dabbling in these types of goodwill orgs is how he spends most of his days now.

Anyway, I just wanted to talk about soldiers and porn. The two are the basic ingredients for what i consider a good time. I wonder if Mr Yeung owns any camouflage... rockon
Posted by: KuKuKaChuModerator

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 20 Aug 07 11:55

pak try may well be Mr. Nice, but it must be asked: is it possible for *any* Indonesian general to absolve themselves from the actions of the Orde Baru?
Posted by: emmajkt

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 20 Aug 07 12:38

Quoting: DCShogun
confidence in Pak Try's motives and his ultimate 'innocence'


Ultimate 'innoncence'?? he was once vice president of suharto, you talking about ultimate innocent? Dude, that is impossible.
Even he's got this clean profile.

Like Kevin Rudd here in Sydney, he got this squeky clean profile, though he just captured as a drunken guy went to strip club in New york. That just lame example.

Political people in indo are worse!
Posted by: DCShogun

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 20 Aug 07 17:19

Quoting: emmajkt
Quoting: DCShogun
confidence in Pak Try's motives and his ultimate 'innocence'


Ultimate 'innoncence'?? he was once vice president of suharto, you talking about ultimate innocent? Dude, that is impossible.
Even he's got this clean profile.

Political people in indo are worse!


You obviously have no idea about any of the dynamics behind his rise to VP, which is ok, a lot of ppl dont. Do you think he and Suharto 'ran on the same ticket' in some election like in the US? Do you think he was VP because he and Suharto were on the same the sheet of music, shared pots of extorted gold together. The differences of opinion were well known in those times. Actually, you will be hard pressed to fund ANY similarities between Suharto and Pak Try. Do all the googling you want, you wont find anything that connects him or his family to corruption and vast wealth and hidden bank accounts or even the ownership of big businesses. Even his seven children live relatively humble lives outside of the spotlight. Yes, one cannot say that about most politicians here, even a lot of 1-star generals are raking in cash somehow, with their 25-year-old kids that already own 3 businesses and condos in Los Angeles. Someone got rich in those times, but not Pak Try. In fact, most analysts see him as an ineffective VP for a number of reasons such as his desire to try to make everyone happy and Suharto's general desire to not share power. I bet he would have been more influential IF HE HAD been corrupt and played those games. I challenge you to take a look at all the books on Indonesia politics, the Suharto years, etc and see how little is talked about Pak Try, even when he was VP of one of the worlds most populous country! Why is this?

Ultimately, he was always a soldier first. Not interesed in getting rich. That is why he is still consulted and respected by current movers and shakers (here and abroad), even though they know he doesnt have cash to throw at them. Not to mention the millions of soldiers then and now that still love him like a father (and not out of fear!) Your 'guilty by association' arguement is a tempting assumption, but its a wrong one.

But of course its more fun to slam any authority figure(your "political people") in this environment where nothing seems to improve. Oooo...even better lets just hate all Indonesians who want to make the military their career and passion. They must all be blood thirsty killers. And the poor mobs in Indonesia are ALWAYS peaceful and misunderstood too.
Posted by: DCShogun

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 20 Aug 07 17:41

Quoting: KuKuKaChu
pak try may well be Mr. Nice, but it must be asked: is it possible for *any* Indonesian general to absolve themselves from the actions of the Orde Baru?


Its easy to think that way, but KuKu, it oversimplifies reality. Like any large country, there were thousands of generals coming and going, each with their own story, motives, opinions, biases, whatever. Most of the decent ones came and went without incident. But the poor decisionmaking and poor decisionmaking environment was such a problem here, thats its easy to just give up on deeper analysis and just conclude that everyone was part of the problem. but this just wasnt the case. After my own experiences in the military and govt, I can only imagine how hard it was to lead and control a low-tech army of millions of uneducated, isolated, young males...with guns. It only takes one soldier to start an 'incident'.

I must admit that I carry around the tendancy for the same cynical assumptions about all politicians here in Indo. There's so much wrong, and I feel like Im the only one thinking of solutions. But, as I network and try to build relationships, I'm finding that it prevents me from really separating the wheat from the chaff so im trying to be more openminded. There's got a be a few politicians worth supporting either now or in the future.
Posted by: kenyeung

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 20 Aug 07 18:16

Quoting: DCShogun
I still dont see the connection to Munir.

Impunity of the retired generals.

In trying to justify the Dili massacre, Try Sutrisno said: "Orang-orang yang mengacau itu harus ditembak, dan kami akan menembak mereka."
After I posted that, you said:
Quoting: DCShogun
I have been in the middle of those kind of situations. Very serious and tense situations. With all kinds of information coming in, sometimes conflicting.

Are you saying you have been amidst a crowd of unarmed protesters and decided they should be massacred?

Quoting: DCShogun
Pak Try was found (multiple times) to have done no wrong. Even with all kinds of research and new infomation, a number of major personalities and outspoken critics of the gov't decisions throught the various hearings concede this about Pak Try...
Current politicians, NGOs, and, maybe more importantly, foreign governments (including the US). The collective knowledge and information gathering ability of this large set of people and organizations has resulted in an accepted confidence in Pak Try's motives and his ultimate 'innocence'.

Komnas HAM chief Abdul Hakim said Try Sutrisno should be held accountable for the Tanjung Priok massacre. After recommending that Try be put on trial, Komnas HAM's office was attacked by the FPI.

Munir had been gathering evidence of the military's policy to rape and murder civilians in Aceh under the DOM, which came into effect when Try was Panglima ABRI.

The US State Dept has questioned the credibility of Indonesia's ad-hoc human rights court. The Australian govt berated Try over the Dili massacre.

Quoting: DCShogun
if you think that corruption is the reason he and Benny M were not convicted


I never said that, although Try did provide bribes in the form of islah. The military also showed up in heavy support at the Tanjung Priok trials. The presence of these noisy soldiers in full uniform was seen as a form of intimidation of not only witnesses, but also the judges.

Quoting: DCShogun
a knowledgeable statesman like yourself

????

Quoting: DCShogun
your little quotes are comparable to sound bytes with little context. I'd rather hear about what you know, not what you Google.

I was living in Indonesia since before Google existed. Try Sutrisno's comment on the Dili massacre is not the sort of thing that's easily forgotten.

Quoting: DCShogun
Many major ministers and diplomatic postings even attended his duaghter's recent wedding. He is in no way being shunned by anyone, not even SBY.

It is the duty of ministers and diplomats to attend such functions.

Quoting: DCShogun
most analysts see him as an ineffective VP for a number of reasons such as his desire to try to make everyone happy and Suharto's general desire to not share power.

The prevailing view among many people during the late 1980s and 90s was that Try Sutrisno was incompetent and stupid. He was the butt of many jokes.

Quoting: DCShogun
There's got a be a few politicians worth supporting either now or in the future.

Not in Wiranto's HANURA.

Quoting: DCShogun
Oooo...even better lets just hate all Indonesians who want to make the military their career and passion. They must all be blood thirsty killers.

You're showing your immaturity and inexperience here.

Quoting: DCShogun
But answer me one thing. Why ask me such a question in the first place?

Because you're Try Sutrisno's XXXXXX! Nothing personal, nothing against you. Just ask XXXXXXX if he thinks Hendro and Muchdi will ever be brought to justice for overseeing the murder of Munir.

You can respond via PM if you wish. Otherwise I'll merely/repeatedly leave it at: "Orang-orang yang mengacau itu harus ditembak, dan kami akan menembak mereka."

Thanks.
Posted by: KuKuKaChuModerator

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 20 Aug 07 19:09

Quoting: kenyeung
"Orang-orang yang mengacau itu harus ditembak, dan kami akan menembak mereka."

for the bahasa indonesia impaired: "people who cause chaos must be shot, and we will shoot them."
Posted by: riccardo

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 20 Aug 07 19:10

I think we need to look in a more balanced way at this.

Mr. Yeung, as you well know, these commie activists and left-wing journos have just flat-out lied about the Nov. 12, 1991 incident in Dili (aka, the Santa Cruz cemetery incident), especially Jill Joliffe, Max Stahl, Allan Nairn, Amy Goodman and John Pilger.

According to the highly respected former Minister Ali Alatas, these foreign journos and NGO activists "were seen to be actively directing demonstrators...".

He personally set up the National Commission of Inquiry at the time, which concluded beyond any doubt that it was not the fault of the Panglima ABRI. "... a spontaneous reaction took place among the security personnel.. without command. At the same time, another group of unorganized security personnel (read: Timorese ABRI troops), acting outside any control or command, fired shots and committed beatings..."

Alatas goes on to state that the "tragic event, which killed 19 disruptors, was not a deliberate act ordered by or reflecting the policy of the Government or ABRI... This has been corroborated by the commission of inquiry."

"... Suharto, in fact, on three separate occasions, conveyed his condolences to the bereaved families."

"...Max Stahl also contributed to the thorough tarnishing of Indonesia's image, especially that of its military, in the eyes of the world."
source: ALI ALATAS, The Pebble in the Shoe: The diplomatic Struggle for East Timor, 2006.

--

Furthermore,
Try Sutrisno, himself, told a group of officers on Nov. 14, 1991

"He went on to say that these disruptors are people who used to
fight as guerrillas in the bush."

However, he went on, members of ABRI who were on guard in the
location of the incident held themselves back. These officers,
he said, showed a great deal of patience in coping with a
situation that was actually goading them into anger. "Our
armed forces are not like armies in other countries. Our
people's army is very tactful."

It turns out, the four-star general continued, that the
patience shown by our officers was not appreciated; on the
contrary, the disruptors became even more brutal. Then, some
shots were fired into the air. "But they persisted with their
misdeeds," he said.

General Try Soetrisno then said that ABRI would never allow
itself to be ignored. "In the end, they had to be shot," he
said, reiterating his words that such disruptors had to be
shot. "And we shall shoot them," he stressed.

The commander-in-chief called on the public not to panic, not
to be influenced and to remain confident in ABRI's ability to
resolve everything. "Abri is determined to crush anyone who
disrupts stability."

source: my personal archives of the apakabar database


Posted by: DCShogun

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 20 Aug 07 19:15

I fail to see how anyone who doesnt play the bullshit games AND rises to the post of 4-star general can be that stupid. Ultimately ineffective outside of a military post maybe, but not stupid. Unless you consider him stupid for not getting rich under Suharto. But this guy was born into poverty without any advantages, making his accomplishments even more admirable.

There's a lot you'll never know, buddy. Your issues with those times are your own business, but the masses of all kinds have assessed the public facts to the best of their ability and decided Pak Try shouldn't bear that cross.

Mr Yeung, I've got to ask how you think you can assess my inexperience in anything, especially from a website like Multiply. I'd hate to think the past 14 years in the govt and military doin 'stuff' all over asia have been a waste of time. Yes, in the midst of tanks, terrorists, rebels, and drugs.

But the immediate problem NOW is how you approached me. You dont know me. Wanting to bring up these subjects to me (however you view them) in the smartass manner you did, I consider to be suspicious (and if theres one thing i AM experienced in its 'being suspicious'.) And your 'questions' were delivered in a beligerent fashion, out of the blue, unsolicited, and already answered in your mind. Your rhetorical question had no right answer in your mind, so was I supposed to logoff and hide? Or hang my head in shame? What did you expect me to say? Really. No, really.

Im here for fun, to irreverantly talk about bars and Kemang and 120,000 rupiah boxes of cereal, even at the expense of Indonesia or bules like myself, but you felt like changing the mood, and im not sure why. Regardless, Mr Yeung, you HAVE just gotten personal with me. Thank you for welcoming me into your world.
Posted by: riccardo

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 20 Aug 07 19:23

Don't worry about any of that stuff DCShogun, my gut feeling is you'll like it here and begin to get a feel for the vibe soon enough. Most of us enjoy a bit of intellectual debate IN ADDITION TO fun-loving discussions of bars, beer prices and poultry issues.

You can have it all here, depending on your mood of the day.
Posted by: KuKuKaChuModerator

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 20 Aug 07 19:25

Quoting: DCShogun
I must admit that I carry around the tendancy for the same cynical assumptions about all politicians here in Indo. There's so much wrong, and I feel like Im the only one thinking of solutions. But, as I network and try to build relationships, I'm finding that it prevents me from really separating the wheat from the chaff so im trying to be more openminded. There's got a be a few politicians worth supporting either now or in the future.

i can understand such a point of view. nobody likes to be prejudged. we really should give individuals the benefit of the doubt.

nonetheless, for those of us who have perhaps lived here far too long, just looking at an indonesian politician causes an instant flashing neon "moron alert" to appear on our heads up visor.

and much the same knee-jerk response applies to the indonesian military. in my ever so humble opinion, 50% of all of indonesia's considerable problems could disappear in an instant with the disbanding of the TNI.

another 40% would disappear by dismantling the indonesian bureaucracy.


Posted by: DCShogun

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 20 Aug 07 19:52

Quoting: riccardo
Don't worry about any of that stuff DCShogun, my gut feeling is you'll like it here and begin to get a feel for the vibe soon enough. Most of us enjoy a bit of intellectual debate IN ADDITION TO fun-loving discussions of bars, beer prices and poultry issues.

You can have it all here, depending on your mood of the day.


Ha, its not like im new to forums, guys grin of course there are ppl that have opinions about the father of my wife, but they dont bother me with them, especially in this fashion. but Mr Yeungs comments were nothing but aggressive and beligerent, and meant to be personal (WTF can i do about anything in this realm?), more than just a slam on, say, me being an American or my fat ass. i love a good ball bustin session, so dont hold back Im was poor kid born and raised by my grandma in Des Moines Iowa. Ive come a long way, but still... Hows that for ball-bustin fodder? And i really do struggle with my fat ass, so its fair game.
Posted by: kenyeung

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 20 Aug 07 20:16

If that's how you feel, then I apologize for my "aggressive and beligerent" comments. Assuming you're on speaking terms with Try Sutrisno, can you please ask him whether he thinks Munir's killers will ever be brought to justice?

Thanks.
Posted by: DCShogun

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 20 Aug 07 20:27

Quoting: kenyeung
If that's how you feel, then I apologize for my "aggressive and beligerent" comments. Assuming you're on speaking terms with Try Sutrisno, can you please ask him whether he thinks Munir's killers will ever be brought to justice?

Thanks.


Dont patronize me, pengyou. You were looking to cause trouble (wankin, i think u said?), nothin else. If you only had one question, you would have asked differently and you wouldn't have taken it further. Mingbai?
Posted by: kenyeung

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 20 Aug 07 20:37

I was wondering if Try Sutrisno had anything to say about the Munir case. Could you ask him please?

Thanks.
Posted by: riccardo

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 20 Aug 07 20:46

FYI Ken, since you only speak Cantonese, these are the Mandarin translations:
pengyou = mate
Mingbai = capiche (understand)
Posted by: kenyeung

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 20 Aug 07 20:52

yes, I was going to award him a 2/10 for trying and eliciting a response. But this wearies me and there are more important things to do just now, such as cutting my toenails and having a wank over the photo of the handsome bule in the above avatar.
Posted by: DCShogun

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 20 Aug 07 21:01

Why r u so condescending? You dont even know me.
Posted by: yourfather

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 20 Aug 07 21:30

so I put on my wizard hat and robe....
Posted by: Capt. Mainwaring

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 20 Aug 07 21:42

Quoting: riccardo
FYI Ken, since you only speak Cantonese, these are the Mandarin translations:
pengyou = mate
Mingbai = capiche (understand)


Wow , the wonders of google - turns everyone into a fucking star for ten minutes. Order sweet and sour chicken and get a new head gasket for your KIA.
Posted by: Capt. Mainwaring

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 20 Aug 07 21:45

Quoting: riccardo
Don't worry about any of that stuff DCShogun, my gut feeling is you'll like it here and begin to get a feel for the vibe soon enough. Most of us enjoy a bit of intellectual debate IN ADDITION TO fun-loving discussions of bars, beer prices and poultry issues.

You can have it all here, depending on your mood of the day.


And if it is 11.35pm and you are half pissed on a sniff of crap red wine then you can nail whoever you wish to the wall - just so long as you do it from the comfort of somewhere very safe.
Posted by: riccardo

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 20 Aug 07 23:47

Quoting: chewwyUK
... So this is what it is like to see a topic discussed without resorting to personal abuse. I think I like it

Maybe someone just wanted to prove you wrong.
Posted by: kenyeung

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 21 Aug 07 05:45

Quoting: chewwyUK
... So this is what it is like to see a topic discussed without resorting to personal abuse. I think I like it


I'm afraid that DCShowgun believes the personal abuse started when I asked him about Try Sutrisno. Raw nerves and all that. Poor chap felt so offended that he wouldn't even accept an apology.
Posted by: emmajkt

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 21 Aug 07 07:21

Quoting: DCShogun
Quoting: kenyeung
If that's how you feel, then I apologize for my "aggressive and beligerent" comments. Assuming you're on speaking terms with Try Sutrisno, can you please ask him whether he thinks Munir's killers will ever be brought to justice?

Thanks.


Dont patronize me, pengyou. You were looking to cause trouble (wankin, i think u said?), nothin else. If you only had one question, you would have asked differently and you wouldn't have taken it further. Mingbai?


If you really are XXXXXXXXXXX. Please just answer kenny question? Nothing really personal. Its also a question from maybe millions of indonesian (including me) who really wonder about the case of munir.

Thanks for your explanation by the way, i am very cynical about some people in Indo Government, indo people and the world have a reason for that. I know i can be wrong because i don't know those people personally, but hey... I am just being blunt and brutally honest.

So Answer Kenny's question please...
Posted by: chewwyUK

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 21 Aug 07 08:40

I don't want to get to involved in this one as its a situation I know almost nothing about. However DCshowgun I don't see that you can call it a personal attack. These types of topics get discussed a lot here along with the more trivial (which i am more qualified to talk on). Clearly its a topic which has a lot of passion and emotion which is a result of people not getting a satisfactory answer to explain the events.

Anyway -- enough said. Welcome to JC - Hope you stick around
Posted by: emmajkt

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 21 Aug 07 10:57

well said, you sounded really diplomatic chewwy, i think you have talent to be politician wink
Posted by: chewwyUK

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 21 Aug 07 11:00

Given the topic of the thread Emma I am unsure that is a good thing hehehehe
Posted by: Dilli

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 21 Aug 07 11:35

Chewwy is to diplomacy what the Captain is to fluffy toys!
Posted by: Roy's Hair

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 21 Aug 07 11:45

Quoting: DCShogun
I fail to see how anyone who doesnt play the bullshit games AND rises to the post of 4-star general can be that stupid.


Someone once told me that old Try was known in diplomatic circles as Forrest Gump.
Posted by: I die enjoy

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 21 Aug 07 13:07

As a new member, i feel it premature to embroil myself directly in the lively debate between Mr Yeung and Shogun.Furthermore i don't know enough about the incidents being debated to meddle. But why all the beating around the bush and using XXXXXXXs???? This is what's causing the tension between the two and the either real or perceived "personal attacks" and "belligerence". Let's just say it. Mr Yeung assumes Shogun to be the son (daughter????) of XXXXXXX (away with the XXXXXXXs!!!) and therefore hopes that Shogun can ask (for an) opinion about the Munir case and the alleged perpetrators' fate.It's obvious Mr Yeung has strong views on the matters he discusses. So Shogun, go ahead and tell us. Are you an offspring of XXXX??? Honest now please??? Your numerous lengthy postings vigourously defending the man indicate some kind of fondness if not personal intimacy with him.
Are you really a true blue American or do you have a streak of Javanese in you???? Hey Shogun, you can't choose your parents. My dad was also a cunt. (not to suggest yours is, whoever he may be)
Posted by: chewwyUK

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 21 Aug 07 13:14

The XXXXXXXXX are where the moderators of this site have taken out "personal" information. It is the policy of this forum to protect personal privacy of others.
Posted by: chewwyUK

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 21 Aug 07 13:16

This also probably explains the stance shogun is taking laugh
Posted by: chewwyUK

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 21 Aug 07 13:18

??? Dont understand why you are editing it Dilli ..
Posted by: Dilli

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 21 Aug 07 13:25

We can discuss this offline.
Posted by: chewwyUK

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 21 Aug 07 13:25

only if you are buying the beer
Posted by: kenyeung

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 21 Aug 07 13:52

I had a cat once, but it died. My cat was named XXXXXX.
Posted by: Roy's Hair

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 21 Aug 07 14:07

Indonesians wouldn't give a XXXX for any other kind of lager
Posted by: Dilli

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 21 Aug 07 14:17

I'm looking for some XXX film's. Anyone got one I can borrow
Posted by: Choc_Cow

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 21 Aug 07 14:33

i have short XXX trailers, is dat good enough for you?
Posted by: Capt. Mainwaring

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 21 Aug 07 16:26

Quoting: Dilli
We can discuss this offline.


You never offered to buy me a nights supply of tinned guinness from the lovely Kiki so that we may forge a bond and discuss this matter "offline" - you just told me to "fucking delete it you twat" - so at least we now know where the old loyalties lie, even though Chewwy is a known Trolley Pusher, you still side with him.
Posted by: Dilli

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 21 Aug 07 16:30

You never called when you were in Jakarta - Twunt!
Posted by: kenyeung

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 21 Aug 07 16:39

Quoting: Capt. Mainwaring
you still side with him.


Folk like you just don't even try to see the big picture. And you won't understand until you put yourself in the other guy's shoes or see things from his eyes. In a typical gesture of selflessness, I've given myself DCShotgun's eyes and can now see that I look like a right cunt. So I must apologize to him. It's got nothing to do with fear of having arsenic slipped into my next beer at Cazbar.

PS - Got any sunglasses I can borrow? Thanks.
Posted by: yourfather

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 21 Aug 07 16:53

do u dudes wanna go out for beers in December?
Posted by: kenyeung

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 21 Aug 07 16:57

Sooner if you're in Melbourne. I drink with anyone, even some of the dull morons here.
Posted by: KuKuKaChuModerator

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 21 Aug 07 17:14

december?? now that's planning ahead ... i don't even know what i'm doing in a hour, much less months from now!
Posted by: Capt. Mainwaring

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 21 Aug 07 17:14

Quoting: Dilli
You never called when you were in Jakarta - Twunt!


You were busy shovelling in roast pork and looking after Mrs Dilli - everyone else said hello, and Klaus even offered to be even more intimate - you just sat there with a face like a cricket bat sucking the arse out of a B&H and slurping beer.

By the way Kenny - he really is a very nice man, and can I have your motor bike if you have an accident?
Posted by: Capt. Mainwaring

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 21 Aug 07 17:17

And I intend to visit the mangy side of time on business very soon - I have to visit Okusi Towers if it still standing, and of course visit the charms of Jaksa.
Posted by: kenyeung

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 21 Aug 07 18:13

Quoting: Capt. Mainwaring
By the way Kenny - he really is a very nice man, and can I have your motor bike if you have an accident?


Sorry, but I was thinking of bequeathing all my possessions (an old pair of bloodstained Golkar y-fronts and a well-thumbed copy of 'Berjuang dan Mengabdi Demi NKRI dan Pancasila') to Try Sutrisno's munificent charities.
Posted by: yourfather

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 21 Aug 07 18:18

well next time im in JKT is December...

One of the downsides in Australia is that I dont have Ramadan off and just not show up at work for Idul Fitri.

But holiday pay is good???

Posted by: Roy's Hair

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 21 Aug 07 20:14

viz a vis Indo politicians and their offspring's relative intelligences, old Shogun has clearly been educated - it's kind of a reverse Sukarno syndrome I guess.
Posted by: Cuckoo

Re: 'Porn Made Marine A Killer' - 14 Sep 07 00:27

Quoting: kenyeung
Quoting: DCShogun
I still dont see the connection to Munir.

Impunity of the retired generals.

In trying to justify the Dili massacre, Try Sutrisno said: "Orang-orang yang mengacau itu harus ditembak, dan kami akan menembak mereka."
After I posted that, you said:
Quoting: DCShogun
I have been in the middle of those kind of situations. Very serious and tense situations. With all kinds of information coming in, sometimes conflicting.

Are you saying you have been amidst a crowd of unarmed protesters and decided they should be massacred?

Quoting: DCShogun
Pak Try was found (multiple times) to have done no wrong. Even with all kinds of research and new infomation, a number of major personalities and outspoken critics of the gov't decisions throught the various hearings concede this about Pak Try...
Current politicians, NGOs, and, maybe more importantly, foreign governments (including the US). The collective knowledge and information gathering ability of this large set of people and organizations has resulted in an accepted confidence in Pak Try's motives and his ultimate 'innocence'.

Komnas HAM chief Abdul Hakim said Try Sutrisno should be held accountable for the Tanjung Priok massacre. After recommending that Try be put on trial, Komnas HAM's office was attacked by the FPI.

Munir had been gathering evidence of the military's policy to rape and murder civilians in Aceh under the DOM, which came into effect when Try was Panglima ABRI.

The US State Dept has questioned the credibility of Indonesia's ad-hoc human rights court. The Australian govt berated Try over the Dili massacre.

Quoting: DCShogun
if you think that corruption is the reason he and Benny M were not convicted


I never said that, although Try did provide bribes in the form of islah. The military also showed up in heavy support at the Tanjung Priok trials. The presence of these noisy soldiers in full uniform was seen as a form of intimidation of not only witnesses, but also the judges.

Quoting: DCShogun
a knowledgeable statesman like yourself

????

Quoting: DCShogun
your little quotes are comparable to sound bytes with little context. I'd rather hear about what you know, not what you Google.

I was living in Indonesia since before Google existed. Try Sutrisno's comment on the Dili massacre is not the sort of thing that's easily forgotten.

Quoting: DCShogun
Many major ministers and diplomatic postings even attended his duaghter's recent wedding. He is in no way being shunned by anyone, not even SBY.

It is the duty of ministers and diplomats to attend such functions.

Quoting: DCShogun
most analysts see him as an ineffective VP for a number of reasons such as his desire to try to make everyone happy and Suharto's general desire to not share power.

The prevailing view among many people during the late 1980s and 90s was that Try Sutrisno was incompetent and stupid. He was the butt of many jokes.

Quoting: DCShogun
There's got a be a few politicians worth supporting either now or in the future.

Not in Wiranto's HANURA.

Quoting: DCShogun
Oooo...even better lets just hate all Indonesians who want to make the military their career and passion. They must all be blood thirsty killers.

You're showing your immaturity and inexperience here.

Quoting: DCShogun
But answer me one thing. Why ask me such a question in the first place?

Because you're Try Sutrisno's XXXXXX! Nothing personal, nothing against you. Just ask XXXXXXX if he thinks Hendro and Muchdi will ever be brought to justice for overseeing the murder of Munir.

You can respond via PM if you wish. Otherwise I'll merely/repeatedly leave it at: "Orang-orang yang mengacau itu harus ditembak, dan kami akan menembak mereka."

Thanks.


By the by, who's this shogun? A bit boring like ricboy, but has "mystical" aura about him. wink wink