Ahmad vs. Maia

Posted by: Orang Kanada

Ahmad vs. Maia - 05 Dec 06 04:54

I saw on TV this morning Dewa 19's guitar player/songwriter/producer Ahmad Dhani talking about his family life. For those who don't know, he's married to Ratu's keyboard player/songwriter Maia.

I don't know for how long they're together, but before becoming a star, Maia was a house wife, taking care of their 3 childs. But now she's a star, constantly on tour and working, so M. Dhani deceided to go on TV complain about his wife, how she became such a bad wife and mother. What an asshole!

So tell me pals, is he jealous of Ratu's success while his own band is on the way down or it's just typically Indo-muslim thought that a married woman should stay home and take care of the kids? Because I know if my girl-friend (or wife) is successful, I'll be happy for her and more, proud of her! She will have my support with the house hold and the kids, if kids we have! I'm just blown away... is he an ass or just a regular Indonesian men?
Posted by: jok

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 05 Dec 06 04:59

ya! Definately he is an ASSHOLE!!
Posted by: Magda

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 05 Dec 06 05:20

Exactly the others reason b'coz he doesn't get any his sex needs regularly... mad, another thing to blow up the Dewa to be more famous can be also, as Ratu more famaous than Dewa and than others band groups eithers... Dewa members consist too Old guys.. cry
Posted by: Shesca

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 05 Dec 06 05:24

I didnt see the interview, so can't really comment on what he said. Danny Ahmad is known as an extreme control freak, but a genius at the same time. He lost several band members in the past due to his conduct, however he still managed to keep Dewa as one of the most prominent group in Indonesia. About his jealousy to Ratu band, I kinda doubt that he is feeling that way since Ratu's popularity although is at their peak at this moment, is still peanut in comparison to legendary Dewa. I guess if he did make that comment, he probably saw it from a husband point of view. And I think this kinda jealousy also occurs in the western countries. I had some friends in the past whose marriage ended because the wives were more succesfull than them. Quite unfortunate, but that's the reality of life...
Posted by: Jokie Jokie Girl

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 05 Dec 06 06:35

I saw that also in the morning before I come to the office..

yeah, whatever..I go with Dhani wink as husband he has a right to do or say something to his wife..
they're 10 years together wih 3 cute kids..
Maia was ardinary house wife and of course a very good mom.. I know her wink
but when she become popolar, she look like forget everything, forget her responsbility and obligation as a mom and wife..
can you see the performance of her she always try to make performance like young girls..

whatever, I go with you Dhani..if you already divorce mybe you need me as the next mom for your kids, laugh yay no worries about the responsebility and the obligation, I know what I have to do; you want me to attack you in the morning, attack you in the midnight, tea in the morning, tea before bobo.. wink wink grin

i do'nt need a house in menteng or Pondok Indah, also don't need 3 cars with drivers..I just need aloooooootttttts of money..so, I can buy everything what ever I want laugh
Posted by: Orang Kanada

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 05 Dec 06 06:53

Shesca, it's always a pleasure to read your comments on music matter... you have such a good eye (or should I say ear) for that.

I agree on this: Dewa is a legendary band. But legends comes from the past, Ratu is the present and the future. I know you really like Dewa's last album (and I do to) but there's no serious hits on it... the only thing that keep Dewa going is their status, people want to see and hear them 'coz they're Dewa, not because of their last no.1 hit...

And a genius... geez, his no Sting! Come on...

And Jokie, Ahmad is the man behind Ratu. He is the one who make them look young. There's a reason why; the public is young, they have to be able to identify themselves to their idol...

And the problem I have is this: the celebrities around the world try their best to protect their private lives, from the paparazzis, tabloïds, etc... But no need for that in Indonesia! The guy go himself on TV to talk about his matrimonial problems!!! What a moron!

If Maia have to cut on her family responsabilities, it's for the good of her career. And it's not suppose to be a problem if she have a husband who support her...
Posted by: Jokie Jokie Girl

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 05 Dec 06 07:17

ok, you better become a reporter for infotaiment media wink
Posted by: Polar Bear

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 05 Dec 06 07:23

Quoting: Orang Kanada
Shesca, it's always a pleasure to read your comments on music matter... you have such a good eye (or should I say ear)


She has pretty good legs, and her tits are fantastic..... smile
Posted by: Orang Kanada

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 05 Dec 06 07:44

Quoting: Polar Bear
Quoting: Orang Kanada
Shesca, it's always a pleasure to read your comments on music matter... you have such a good eye (or should I say ear)


She has pretty good legs, and her tits are fantastic..... smile


ishhhh... I trust you on that one... better not look by myself.
Posted by: Polar Bear

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 05 Dec 06 08:00

I can send you the photos ... smile
Posted by: Dilli

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 05 Dec 06 09:48

Speaking as one who has both had a chance to view first hand and taste the aforementioned mammalian protuberences I plead the fifth!
Posted by: Orang Kanada

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 05 Dec 06 22:33

Shit... there was a following to this story this morning on RCTI and I miss it!!! All I know is Maia's lawer was speaking about I don't know what exactly... Somebody saw that? What happenned?
Posted by: Lulu

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 05 Dec 06 22:41

Most Indonesian husband are male chauvinist pigs; but going public complaining about their wives?! Well they are the smelliest nastiest arse-holes!
Posted by: Polar Bear

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 05 Dec 06 23:13

Quoting: Dilli
Speaking as one who has both had a chance to view first hand and taste the aforementioned mammalian protuberences I plead the fifth!


Yes Shesca said you were slobbering all over her....

She also said you still over her the money........

smile
Posted by: Shesca

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 05 Dec 06 23:48

Quoting: Orang Kanada
Shesca, it's always a pleasure to read your comments on music matter... you have such a good eye (or should I say ear) for that.

I agree on this: Dewa is a legendary band. But legends comes from the past, Ratu is the present and the future. I know you really like Dewa's last album (and I do to) but there's no serious hits on it... the only thing that keep Dewa going is their status, people want to see and hear them 'coz they're Dewa, not because of their last no.1 hit...

And a genius... geez, his no Sting! Come on...

And Jokie, Ahmad is the man behind Ratu. He is the one who make them look young. There's a reason why; the public is young, they have to be able to identify themselves to their idol...

And the problem I have is this: the celebrities around the world try their best to protect their private lives, from the paparazzis, tabloïds, etc... But no need for that in Indonesia! The guy go himself on TV to talk about his matrimonial problems!!! What a moron!

If Maia have to cut on her family responsabilities, it's for the good of her career. And it's not suppose to be a problem if she have a husband who support her...


OK: thanks. I was a much better popular world watcher before Hayden. But I'd 1000x rather watch my little one grows than following the showbiz development smile

I dont agree about your opinion regarding Ahmad Dhani's genius. He's no Sting, I know that for sure. But it takes a genius like himself or somebody like Madonna to make people remember them and still listen to their music.

Posted by: Shesca

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 05 Dec 06 23:53

Quoting: Dilli
Speaking as one who has both had a chance to view first hand and taste the aforementioned mammalian protuberences I plead the fifth!


Dilli: how many times do I have to tell you. The boobs you were playing with in Satu Lagi belongs to a beatiful transvestite called Siesca. NOT MINE!!!
Posted by: Polar Bear

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 06 Dec 06 00:08

Maybe the two pimples on your ass confused him (both sag down to the same level.....
Posted by: Orang Kanada

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 06 Dec 06 00:38

Ahh, Shesca, I'm so glad you replied... I think you're mistaken genius and popular! It's one thing to be remembered, I mean, everybody remember Bruce Springsteen but is he a genius? No, just at the top long enough to be called "the boss" with a couple of hits... What is Dewa's biggest hit ever? Separuh nafas? Can we compare that to Fragile, or even Englisman In New York? Come on...

He's probably the most influant musician in Indonesia, and that mean a lot, but it's not a reason to call him a genius, sorry...
Posted by: Polar Bear

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 06 Dec 06 00:44

To change the mood a little
Ive been posing down the pub
On seeing my reflection
Im looking slightly rough
I fancy this, I fancy that
I wanna be so flash
I give a little muscle
And I spend a little cash
But all I get is bitter and a nasty little rash
And by the time Im sober
Ive forgotten what Ive had
And evrybody tells me that its cool to be a Polar Bear
Cool for Bears
Posted by: Orang Kanada

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 06 Dec 06 00:52

Do you want me to put a melody on that, PB?
Posted by: Polar Bear

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 06 Dec 06 00:57

Squeeze did, and i just found it in my collection.

Sat here, and suddenly it was the Hammersmith Palais, London,
Posted by: Jokie Jokie Girl

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 06 Dec 06 03:44

Quoting: Orang Kanada
Shit... there was a following to this story this morning on RCTI and I miss it!!! All I know is Maia's lawer was speaking about I don't know what exactly... Somebody saw that? What happenned?


ok, suka nge-gossip ya yay
Posted by: Asterix

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 06 Dec 06 11:26

Quoting: Ela_K
ya! Definately he is an ASSHOLE!!
Quoting: Orang Kanada
I saw on TV this morning Dewa 19's guitar player/songwriter/producer Ahmad Dhani talking about his family life. For those who don't know, he's married to Ratu's keyboard player/songwriter Maia.

I don't know for how long they're together, but before becoming a star, Maia was a house wife, taking care of their 3 childs. But now she's a star, constantly on tour and working, so M. Dhani deceided to go on TV complain about his wife, how she became such a bad wife and mother. What an asshole!

So tell me pals, is he jealous of Ratu's success while his own band is on the way down or it's just typically Indo-muslim thought that a married woman should stay home and take care of the kids? Because I know if my girl-friend (or wife) is successful, I'll be happy for her and more, proud of her! She will have my support with the house hold and the kids, if kids we have! I'm just blown away... is he an ass or just a regular Indonesian men?

Ahmad Dhani is a manly husband. A man who likes his wife working & leaving her children is an unmanly husband. And a wife who prefers working outside to taking care of her children is a loser. The both are the persons who are uhmmm…

Habibie’s wife was a home wife who just took care of her children. She just had activities outside after her children grew up to SMP. So did Bush’s wife (out of politic business, of course). And.. you can look at them with their recent children..

Posted by: Hola Hop

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 06 Dec 06 11:43

Quoting: Shesca
I didnt see the interview, so can't really comment on what he said. Danny Ahmad is known as an extreme control freak, but a genius at the same time. He lost several band members in the past due to his conduct, however he still managed to keep Dewa as one of the most prominent group in Indonesia. About his jealousy to Ratu band, I kinda doubt that he is feeling that way since Ratu's popularity although is at their peak at this moment, is still peanut in comparison to legendary Dewa. I guess if he did make that comment, he probably saw it from a husband point of view. And I think this kinda jealousy also occurs in the western countries. I had some friends in the past whose marriage ended because the wives were more succesfull than them. Quite unfortunate, but that's the reality of life...

Quoting: Shesca
I didnt see the interview, so can't really comment on what he said. Danny Ahmad is known as an extreme control freak, but a genius at the same time. He lost several band members in the past due to his conduct, however he still managed to keep Dewa as one of the most prominent group in Indonesia. About his jealousy to Ratu band, I kinda doubt that he is feeling that way since Ratu's popularity although is at their peak at this moment, is still peanut in comparison to legendary Dewa. I guess if he did make that comment, he probably saw it from a husband point of view. And I think this kinda jealousy also occurs in the western countries. I had some friends in the past whose marriage ended because the wives were more succesfull than them. Quite unfortunate, but that's the reality of life...

Children are the future happiness & pride of a family. Giving them a good upbring and no letting them grew up with only outsider (e.g just with a home servant) is the same with investing for the future... for the ‘hakiki’/true happiness of a family in the future.

So, if a husband and wife would rather give up their children to outsider, then they are stupid.
Posted by: Orang Kanada

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 06 Dec 06 11:57

Not manly? HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

What you call not manly is called modern in my culture.

You realize that right now, you are telling I'm not manly and my girlfriend is a loser! HAHAHAHA... It's the first time in my life somebody tell me I'm not manly!!! That's funny...
Posted by: Shesca

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 06 Dec 06 20:19

Quoting: Orang Kanada
Ahh, Shesca, I'm so glad you replied... I think you're mistaken genius and popular! It's one thing to be remembered, I mean, everybody remember Bruce Springsteen but is he a genius? No, just at the top long enough to be called "the boss" with a couple of hits... What is Dewa's biggest hit ever? Separuh nafas? Can we compare that to Fragile, or even Englisman In New York? Come on...

He's probably the most influant musician in Indonesia, and that mean a lot, but it's not a reason to call him a genius, sorry...

OK: I still think he's a genius.
Let's find a definition of genius: (from Merriam=webster dictionary)
.....
5 plural usually geniuses a : a single strongly marked capacity or aptitude b : extraordinary intellectual power especially as manifested in creative activity c : a person endowed with transcendent mental superiority; especially : a person with a very high IQ

or from hyperdictionary
[n] unusual mental ability
[n] a natural talent; "he has a flair for mathematics"; "he has a genius for interior decorating"
[n] exceptional creative ability
[n] someone who is dazzlingly skilled in any field
[n] someone who has exceptional intellectual ability and originality

So he's probably not exactly a genius in MUSIC, but a genius in managing to stay at the top.

Don't worry OK, you are MANLY in my eyes smile And in fact I will agree with the comment if the female is FORCED to work, not if she decides to do it in her own will. Ignoring the family and concentrating too much on work is also something that males have to pay attention to.But that's a separate discussion smile
Posted by: Magda

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 07 Dec 06 00:04

it seem ratu's manager has conflict with dany, and then she made a statement with her atorney (complained danny's behaviours).. she had fight already and felt very uncomfortable with his fuck attitudee. in the mean time she resigned already....
I think danny really bloody rude person and bad behaviour shoot at different place danny said with arrogant: "well if i'm not lazy i will fight also with my right opinion that she/ ex manager has came to my house without permision if not if im lazy i will let it and no comment - wait n See yay
Posted by: Orang Kanada

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 07 Dec 06 02:44

Thanks Magda for the update, that's exactly the part I missed yesterday. Things become more clear... and more nasty.

Ok Shesca, Dhani's a genius to you, fine. What I understand, it's a matter of point of view...

Posted by: Polar Bear

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 07 Dec 06 03:45

Shesca thinks I am a genius..... smile
Posted by: Orang Kanada

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 07 Dec 06 04:16

According to your avatar: if like most men, your brain is in your dick, then damn right, you must a genius!!!
Posted by: Polar Bear

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 07 Dec 06 07:29

The avatar is just a made up thing.


My dick is not that size.


It is much bigger.....


smile
Posted by: Magda

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 07 Dec 06 07:50

Quoting: Polar Bear
The avatar is just a made up thing.


My dick is not that size.


It is much bigger.....


smile


put in this forum then... maybe some girls love it
Posted by: Mayori

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 07 Dec 06 10:20

I’m in agreement with Maia’s husband, Viola and Kurniawan regardingly.

If you have no lot of time for your children, no lot of time to laugh together with them, no lot of time to give smiles, huges and kisses to them, no lot of time to devote your afection and attention to them, then tomorow after they grown up tobe adult you’ll be like a person who rent a luxurious home which you might be proud of the luxurious home but the pride is just outside, in public. Not in your inner voice/heart, as you are aware that it’s not your own home anyway.

When your children got successful in the future, you might will feel proud of your successful children but deep in your inner voice you’ll feel empty and lonesome in your older age because at the same you will feel also that their heart has been far away from you even if you and your children still meet each other often. So, you just look lucky and happy outside before people else but your inner voice empty and lonesome as the happiness you ‘feel’ is not the true happiness. Bukan kebahagiaan hakiki melainkan hanya kebahagiaan semu.

If you can’t understand this time, you may keep youself a carrier woman and then just let you see by yourself what you will feel in your older age tomorrow.

Posted by: VAD

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 07 Dec 06 10:25

Wow, It sounds an interresting topic!

I’m really grateful for finding a manly husband, the true figure of a husband. He wants his wife tobe devoted to only family, just care about husband and children. Because that’s what he searched for a wife for.

Thanks God, for sending me a man going my way.



Posted by: Orang Kanada

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 07 Dec 06 10:40

What you girls seems to forget is; Ahmad complains about his wife 'coz, according to him, she's too busy to fullfil her mothers duties. I agree that children should be the most important in any persons life. But here's the problem, that everybody seems to miss: a child, in a perfect world, need both of his parents attention. Ahmad has been absent for his family life for the good of his own career for years. Now it's his wife's turn and he's complaining about her to do now what he does for years... but she's a woman and he a man, so he's good and she's bad... how can you be so blind girls? I'm on your side and you abject?! Anyway... if you prefer to be house wives, it's your choice and I fully understand it, but if that woman, Maia, wanna be a career woman, the last thing his husband should do is supporting her, because from the start, he launched her artist career!!! Don't give your wife an opportunity if you don't want her to go along with it! And do he need to go on TV for that???
Posted by: Mayori

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 07 Dec 06 11:01

A husband’s main duties is to making money to support his household/ family’s needs and a wife’s main duties is to look after her household/family (her husband and children). It’s right that a child need affection and attention from the both of parents but there is a priority cause of the condition.

A company needs manager, employee etc. Each of them will have job different. Impossible all becomes managers, or all becomes director. So do duties in a household..

Well, you must know what I mean here, guys..

Posted by: Katara

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 07 Dec 06 11:05

They here just understand bule and sex, friends. It is only that in their head. No useful for you to discuss on such a topic.

I know you must have read lot of books or facts or recent opinions about it. But you should stop it to discuss here.



Posted by: Orang Kanada

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 07 Dec 06 11:15

Quoting: Rhinno
They here just understand bule and sex, friends. It is only that in their head. No useful for you to discuss on such a topic.

I know you must have read lot of books or facts or recent opinions about it. But you should stop it to discuss here.





Why? Are you scared of an sudden woman emacipation in Indonesia? hehehe... As you can see, it won't happen in a near future...
Posted by: Lulu

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 07 Dec 06 11:32

OK, the thing is do they really know what woman emancipation is?!

Even this Rhino person think that we are here only understand bule and sex.....And wanting to participate in discussion just because READ lot books etc?! Well...well...
Posted by: Orang Kanada

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 07 Dec 06 11:42

No more comments, Lu... wink You said it all...
Posted by: Polar Bear

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 07 Dec 06 11:47

A marraige is a partnership, not a Master and Servant relationship.

It is about carring. Loving. Needing, and being needed. Both members bring something to the partnership. Sometimes what they bring changes form time to time.


The problem is when ego gets in the way, and the partnership becomes two partners.


Posted by: Orang Kanada

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 07 Dec 06 11:55

Thanks PB! A good resumé of what I had in mind... you're not just a gun freak, after all... hehehe
Posted by: Lulu

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 07 Dec 06 12:05

Well sometimes even a bear can slip...just like now!smile
Posted by: Polar Bear

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 07 Dec 06 12:11

Quoting: Orang Kanada
Thanks PB! A good resumé of what I had in mind... you're not just a gun freak, after all... hehehe


I forgot to add the final sentence. And if your dinner isnt on the table when you get home, shoot the idle bitch!

Bears dont slip. They just forget to add the punchline.....
Posted by: VAD

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 08 Dec 06 03:23

Quoting: Orang Kanada
No more comments, Lu... wink You said it all...


Being a carrier woman? So what? Actually it’s OK as long as you are able to manage your energy for the both carrier and children. You still have extra energy to gather with your children when got home and still able to keep smile before them even if tired. So, up to you.

Well, every woman has the Right to choose tobe a carrier woman or a household wife. And every man has The Right also to choose a worker wife or a household wife. Just take it according to each of the vision and aim you have in building a family/marriage. And just leave the one who doesn’t match you. As simple as that. It sounds fair, doesn’t it? wink

Posted by: bonita

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 08 Dec 06 03:30

Quoting: Polar Bear


I forgot to add the final sentence. And if your dinner isnt on the table when you get home, shoot the idle bitch!

Bears dont slip. They just forget to add the punchline.....


But the one on the pic I've sent to you did slip :P
Posted by: Lulu

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 08 Dec 06 04:42

Quoting: Martha
Quoting: Orang Kanada
No more comments, Lu... wink You said it all...


Being a carrier woman? So what? Actually it’s OK as long as you are able to manage your energy for the both carrier and children. You still have extra energy to gather with your children when got home and still able to keep smile before them even if tired. So, up to you.

Well, every woman has the Right to choose tobe a carrier woman or a household wife. And every man has The Right also to choose a worker wife or a household wife. Just take it according to each of the vision and aim you have in building a family/marriage. And just leave the one who doesn’t match you. As simple as that. It sounds fair, doesn’t it? wink




Speaking about fairness, and just wanna point out the main point of this thread is....this below.....


Quoting: Orang Kanada
.....because from the start, he launched her artist career!!! Don't give your wife an opportunity if you don't want her to go along with it! And do he need to go on TV for that???


...I think....is that right or not OK?!

Posted by: Polar Bear

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 08 Dec 06 04:47

It is tough for women everywhere.

They have a career. they have a home, and they have children.

The man just earns the money. The woman earns money, looks after the house and looks after the children.

married men should do more.

I am single.......
Posted by: Orang Kanada

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 08 Dec 06 05:09

Of course-lah, Lulu... that's the point from the start, the reason why I called him an assshole... thanks to bring it up again. It show me that I'm not talking to a wall... wink
Posted by: Jokie Jokie Girl

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 08 Dec 06 05:12

for me; career is the most important!
even I go with Dani Ahmad if he was get angry with his wife..


Posted by: Orang Kanada

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 08 Dec 06 05:16

Cool, so I can go for Maia!!!!
Posted by: jok

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 08 Dec 06 05:31

well, you guys you made me smile. really.
Posted by: Jokie Jokie Girl

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 08 Dec 06 05:44

Quoting: Orang Kanada
Of course-lah, Lulu... that's the point from the start, the reason why I called him an assshole... thanks to bring it up again. It show me that I'm not talking to a wall... wink


OK, I'm gonna tell to Dani Ahmad that you told him an asshole smile

Posted by: Polar Bear

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 08 Dec 06 05:46

Jokie, i can give you Career Plus smile

Plus lots of fun with a cute Polar Bear...
Posted by: jok

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 08 Dec 06 05:50

but Joki, Ahmad Dani is really an asshole.
Posted by: Jokie Jokie Girl

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 08 Dec 06 05:56

Quoting: Polar Bear
Jokie, i can give you Career Plus smile

Plus lots of fun with a cute Polar Bear...


really? I need that, PB wink career plus lots of fun wink
Posted by: Jokie Jokie Girl

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 08 Dec 06 05:58

Quoting: Ela_K
but Joki, Ahmad Dani is really an asshole.


yeah alots of people said that he's an asshole, arrogant, sok of course, one men show and anything..but he has a right for that..
Posted by: Lulu

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 08 Dec 06 06:33

Quoting: Orang Kanada
Cool, so I can go for Maia!!!!


and I go for....eeeerrrr....*looking under my blanket*...here he is...my Mr. Rabbit... grin
Yes I go for my mr.rabbit! yay
Posted by: Orang Kanada

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 08 Dec 06 07:18

W A I T A M I N U T E . . .

Jokie likes Ahmad...

Ahmad is an asshole...

So, Jokie like assholes...

Jokie likes me... so...
Posted by: VAD

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 08 Dec 06 08:06

Quoting: LuKukuLu
Quoting: Martha
Quoting: Orang Kanada
No more comments, Lu... wink You said it all...


Being a carrier woman? So what? Actually it’s OK as long as you are able to manage your energy for the both carrier and children. You still have extra energy to gather with your children when got home and still able to keep smile before them even if tired. So, up to you.

Well, every woman has the Right to choose tobe a carrier woman or a household wife. And every man has The Right also to choose a worker wife or a household wife. Just take it according to each of the vision and aim you have in building a family/marriage. And just leave the one who doesn’t match you. As simple as that. It sounds fair, doesn’t it? wink




Speaking about fairness, and just wanna point out the main point of this thread is....this below.....


Quoting: Orang Kanada
.....because from the start, he launched her artist career!!! Don't give your wife an opportunity if you don't want her to go along with it! And do he need to go on TV for that???


...I think....is that right or not OK?!



You are too extreem, gal. I think Dhani never intends to cut his wife's career. He just wants her not to devote her full time to carrer until ignoring their children. Career is OK as long as keeping children as priority because that's her main duties as a wife and mother in household. Recently he permits her for work (show) only Saturday and Sunday. The days Monday till Friday is just for their children. You see that? Does it make sense, gal..?

Posted by: Jokie Jokie Girl

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 08 Dec 06 08:10

Quoting: Orang Kanada
W A I T A M I N U T E . . .

Jokie likes Ahmad...

Ahmad is an asshole...

So, Jokie like assholes...

Jokie likes me... so...


so? you're also an asshole wink
Posted by: Jokie Jokie Girl

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 08 Dec 06 08:14

yoi buanget, i agrre with you smile
Posted by: Lulu

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 09 Dec 06 00:54

Extreme? What did I say? I merely tried to point out the main issue of this thread....and talking about extreme I only did that by posting...didn't go on TV...grin

Posted by: Mayori

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 09 Dec 06 06:30

Quoting: Martha
Quoting: Orang Kanada
No more comments, Lu... wink You said it all...


Being a carrier woman? So what? Actually it’s OK as long as you are able to manage your energy for the both carrier and children. You still have extra energy to gather with your children when got home and still able to keep smile before them even if tired. So, up to you.
..........

It reminds me of what Neno Warisman ever said:

"Keep smile always before children in order that they become the smiley children. And keep the affection devoted to them by huging, kissing and caressing them frequently, in order that they become the happy children.."
Posted by: Jokie Jokie Girl

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 09 Dec 06 06:49

Quoting: Lilly
Quoting: Martha
Quoting: Orang Kanada
No more comments, Lu... wink You said it all...


Being a carrier woman? So what? Actually it’s OK as long as you are able to manage your energy for the both carrier and children. You still have extra energy to gather with your children when got home and still able to keep smile before them even if tired. So, up to you.
..........


It reminds me of what Neno Warisman ever said:

"Keep smile always before children in order that they become the smiley children. And keep the affection devoted to them by huging, kissing and caressing them frequently, in order that they become the happy children.."


for some women said career is the most important but also some women said become a house wife is the most honour..
for me caree is everything but I will not forget my obligation and also my responsebility with my family..Amin
Posted by: VAD

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 09 Dec 06 06:58

Quoting: Polar Bear
It is tough for women everywhere.

They have a career. they have a home, and they have children.

The man just earns the money. The woman earns money, looks after the house and looks after the children.

married men should do more.

I am single.......


Jealous with children..?

As husband who has taken care of family's needs, he has the Right also to taken care by his wife. And as her thank to her husband for his protection, it's one of her duty tobe a chef for her family and tobe a 'whore' (uhmm..does it make sense?;)) for her own husband. A tired husband will need tobe looked after by his wife when got home in order to feel better and fresher (maybe a cup of tea with kiss and massage etc).

A wife should look beautiful before him when he got home because that can makes him feel better. Btw, this is also what my husband wants me todo for him when he got home from work. He said when got so tired, he need to see the beautiful wife at home because that will make him feel much better. Well, it's ok. A wife should take care of her beauty in order to look always charming before her husband. It's to please him. I never mind at all. It's his Right on his wife, isn't it?
Posted by: KuKuKaChuModerator

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 09 Dec 06 07:01

right on, martha! now you're talking! smile
Posted by: Shesca

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 09 Dec 06 20:53

[quote=Martha

Jealous with children..?

As husband who has taken care of family's needs, he has the Right also to taken care by his wife. And as her thank to her husband for his protection, it's one of her duty tobe a chef for her family and tobe a 'whore' (uhmm..does it make sense?;)) for her own husband. A tired husband will need tobe looked after by his wife when got home in order to feel better and fresher (maybe a cup of tea with kiss and massage etc).

A wife should look beautiful before him when he got home because that can makes him feel better. Btw, this is also what my husband wants me todo for him when he got home from work. He said when got so tired, he need to see the beautiful wife at home because that will make him feel much better. Well, it's ok. A wife should take care of her beauty in order to look always charming before her husband. It's to please him. I never mind at all. It's his Right on his wife, isn't it?
[/quote]
Martha:
Let me give you my opinion here. I will be very careful with my wordings not to offend you, but please forgive me if i do otherwise.
I think you are talking from an Eastern woman with an Eastern mind point of view. Where most of those see dedicating their lives to taking care of their husbands and their kids as something they are very proud of and dream come true. Well, sorta. What PB had in mind is the western women point of view,in general, where they see the above matter as something that's totaly opposite. We have to admit, and I am sure you know about this, too, in Eastern countries, women are seen as the supporter of the men. I am talking about in a marriage. In Western countries used to be like that, but now is different. Gender discrimination still exist, of course, but they are the smaller part of the whole society behaviour. Women demand to be treated equally and given equal right in almost anything. It's getting better and better in the East but the condition is opposite, of course. So, in other words, you can spend hours, days or even years to stay firm at what you think, and PB will never understand. And the other way around.:) Just my opinion.
Posted by: Polar Bear

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 09 Dec 06 21:09

Polar Bear Economics – Lesson 1

In the west 30 years ago men worked and women were mothers and housewives.

Then some husbands and wives realised that if the both worked they had twice the income, and were twice as rich. This was the dual income family boom of the 70s and 80s. Suddenly people started holidaying overseas, buying bigger houses, a car, or by the 80s they owned two cars.

But there is a simple principle of economics. Someone had to pay for these wives salaries. Western productivity didn’t rise, so costs went up.

Now two income families are back to where they were 30 years ago. What a single income family could afford 30 years ago, a dual income family can afford now.

They struggle to own one house, one car, and are deep in debt. So family assistance has risen, tax offsets, family bonuses. All paid for by taxing the income of the workers.

So – married couples are back where they were 30 years ago, they are no better off, except the woman now has to work…..
Posted by: Polar Bear

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 09 Dec 06 21:21

Typical of the Australian situation. We are now cutting the tax on worknig women so that they can afford to pay other women to look after thier children whilst they are working........



Childcare tax deduction plan panned PRINT FRIENDLY EMAIL STORY
PM - Friday, 8 December , 2006 18:25:00
Reporter: Stephen Long
MARK COLVIN: There's been a hostile reaction today to a long-awaited Parliamentary report which says that working parents should be allowed to deduct the costs of childcare against their income tax.

A committee of Federal Parliament spent 18 months examining how to make childcare more affordable and encourage more women to return to work after having children.

The committee, headed by the Liberal MP Bronwyn Bishop, says families should be able to hire nannies and claim it as a tax expense.

And it says the visa system should be relaxed to allow for an influx of "au pairs" from overseas.

But the Prime Minister has poured cold water on the key proposals, the Opposition says it would favour the rich, and experts on taxation, public policy and labour market economics say the plan is deeply flawed.


Posted by: Orang Kanada

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 10 Dec 06 00:29

Why when we talk about women at work, everybody (not only you PB, and btw I agree with your analysis of the situation) talk about money? It's the men's job to bring money home, bla bla bla.

Personnaly, working never been a matter of money, but doing something with my life, to bloom as person. Why women cannot have this right? God didn't gave you only a uterus but also a brain.

Having children from the woman I love is the first meaning of life to me, and the second is filling my life with another purpose, in my case, creating music. If work for you is all about money, well, I feel a bit sorry for you guys...
Posted by: Polar Bear

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 10 Dec 06 04:03

OK - I fully agree with you re money not being the driver for work. I once interviewed a developer and he said "I dont want the contract".

I Said "if you need more money I can squeeze the budget"

He said "I need a challenge and satisfaction more than I need money. I won't get it from this project".....

I was sorry not to get him, but I admired his honesty and integrity.....

BUT:

In my life I have been rich and I have been poor. I have had times when i was hungry, and work was scarce, and I would take any job just to survive. I dont tihnk my developer had ever been in that position.....

Work satifaction is sometihng someone with a full belly can enjoy. Hungry workers dont notice it.
Posted by: Lulu

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 10 Dec 06 04:47

Quoting: Orang Kanada
Why when we talk about women at work, everybody (not only you PB, and btw I agree with your analysis of the situation) talk about money? It's the men's job to bring money home, bla bla bla.


Not me?!?!?!
Posted by: Polar Bear

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 10 Dec 06 05:27

Quoting: LuKukuLu
Quoting: Orang Kanada
Why when we talk about women at work, everybody (not only you PB, and btw I agree with your analysis of the situation) talk about money? It's the men's job to bring money home, bla bla bla.


Not me?!?!?!


Ahhhh you back from work. Where is my cup of tea?
Posted by: Orang Kanada

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 10 Dec 06 05:34

Hey PB, don't forget I'm a musician... I've been so fucking hungry in periods of my life! Still then, money wasn't important or a motivation.
Posted by: Orang Kanada

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 10 Dec 06 05:38

In some type of works, if money is your motivation you're making shit, people identify you as a shit maker and you never work again. If you work on projects you like only, whatever the budget they have, you're making good stuff, bring out the best in you, and then people want to work with you 'coz you're the best, whatever how much you charge. Of course, that don't apply in blue collar "punch in" jobs... well, maybe yes, if you think about it...
Posted by: VAD

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 10 Dec 06 06:34

If you think that looking after children is nothing, much easier, then you are wrong. What faced and handled by a worker is the subject not alive while what faced and handled by household wife is something alive..children! They have heart and mind while the job you handle has no heart nor mind. Does it male sense, guys...?

I prefer living life according to my “kodrat” as a woman. In my eyes, a household wife (who tajes care of family as well, not the one who knows nothing what to do in household) looks much more respected than a woman director having husband who gives the responsibility of looking after children upto a baby sitter.

Posted by: Hola Hop

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 10 Dec 06 06:45

I feel pity on women having children who leave children for making money just like a single parent. Where are their husbands..?

If the husband’s existance in household is nothing, what women married men for? No difference between becoming single parent and having husband. Just for sex..? If it’s the fact of being forced (cause of the financial problem) that hold them as a career woman, then nothing wrong with them. To help a weak husband is good, anyway. But if it’s their true ambission then they are losers.

Posted by: Orang Kanada

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 10 Dec 06 06:54

Can you tell me clearly why a career woman is a "loser"? And what is your definition of loser anyway?
Posted by: Jokie Jokie Girl

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 10 Dec 06 11:14

Quoting: Martha
If you think that looking after children is nothing, much easier, then you are wrong. What faced and handled by a worker is the subject not alive while what faced and handled by household wife is something alive..children! They have heart and mind while the job you handle has no heart nor mind. Does it male sense, guys...?

I prefer living life according to my “kodrat” as a woman. In my eyes, a household wife (who tajes care of family as well, not the one who knows nothing what to do in household) looks much more respected than a woman director having husband who gives the responsibility of looking after children upto a baby sitter.


absolutely, you are right, madam wink
as a women we have a "kodrat" that necessary as a household..but it was doesn't meant that we can do nothing...and let our self do nothing, right? am I correct?

yeah, I came from a family that not well educated enough..except me and my oldest brother..when my father knew that I'm doing my master..he was look like suprise and say " what for???, you're a women! no need to be master degree coz whatever happened you gonna back to the kitchen"..

of course I'm gonna back to the kitchen as a homesrvant for my family, I'm gonna back to bed as a bitch for my husband..and the other time..I'll be a nice and smart worker for my company wink
Posted by: VAD

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 10 Dec 06 11:57

My friend in Solo had the husband who prefers worker wife. She told me about the ex husband of hers to let me see what kind of man he is in the back from his emancipation propaganda..

He got married again after the divorce with her. For him, wife has to work. Only energy and pussy he wants from wife. While child seems just the side effect from marriage to him as he never really wants child actually (because children are burden for him), expect it’s the wife who wants it instead.

Wife has to work and be obedient even if unloved and betrayed without respecting the wife’s sacrifice all the time. Yet, APPARENTLY THE PRICE THE WIFE HAS TO PAY TOBE A BUSY WORKER WIFE IS... NOT ONLY LEAVING THE RESPONSIBILITY OF LOOKING AFTER CHILDREN, BUT ALSO HER HUSBAND HAVING AFFAIR WITH THEIR OWN HOME SERVANT! Yet, he’s really still lucky to have such a ‘lugu’ wife who is never aware of becoming a loser.

I wouldn’t let a man threat me like that. If I was the wife, I wouldn’t trust him when he says “I love you”. How could he had affair and even married their own home servant if he really loves the wife who is living with him so his lust can keep fulfilled evryday? His love is bulshit indeed. But he’s really lucky to have such a ‘lugu’ wife, anyway.
Posted by: Mayori

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 10 Dec 06 11:59

Everyone has the way to enjoy life on their space. If you couldn’t live without career as career might be the only way to regain your selfconfidence, then it’s the best way for you to feel cozier and happier THIS TIME.

Ok, Good luck...

I am still against the emancipation from west that just makes children grew up the same way as orphanes. Anyway, actually the emancipation RA Kartini struggled in the past didn’t mean that if only you knew the true phylosophy of the emancipation RS Kartini meant.

Posted by: Mayori

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 10 Dec 06 12:04

My dad is a westerner. He is an European. Yet, he never forces my mom who is Indonesian to work. Even he prefers my mom being at home. The only thing my dad needs is love. He wants children’s heart always close to him because wants to keep cared and loved by family even if in the future children no longer need him financially cause of being grown up, independent and married so no longer together with him.
Posted by: Asterix

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 10 Dec 06 12:21

Quoting: Jokie Jokie Girl
Quoting: Martha
If you think that looking after children is nothing, much easier, then you are wrong. What faced and handled by a worker is the subject not alive while what faced and handled by household wife is something alive..children! They have heart and mind while the job you handle has no heart nor mind. Does it male sense, guys...?

I prefer living life according to my “kodrat” as a woman. In my eyes, a household wife (who tajes care of family as well, not the one who knows nothing what to do in household) looks much more respected than a woman director having husband who gives the responsibility of looking after children upto a baby sitter.


absolutely, you are right, madam wink
as a women we have a "kodrat" that necessary as a household..but it was doesn't meant that we can do nothing...and let our self do nothing, right? am I correct?

yeah, I came from a family that not well educated enough..except me and my oldest brother..when my father knew that I'm doing my master..he was look like suprise and say " what for???, you're a women! no need to be master degree coz whatever happened you gonna back to the kitchen"..

of course I'm gonna back to the kitchen as a homesrvant for my family, I'm gonna back to bed as a bitch for my husband..and the other time..I'll be a nice and smart worker for my company wink

In USA, actually so many career women who is finally eager to go ‘home to family’ but it’s the high life cost that hold them back as career women (the tax is so high there).

Well, that’s the difference between them and our women here in Indonesia. Mostly American women who have has children become career women cause of the fact of being forced (the high tax and life cost). While Indonesian career women feel enjoy and proud of being the status as a career woman because still dazzled by western culture, even if have to give the main responsibility upto babysitter.

Posted by: Orang Kanada

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 10 Dec 06 12:30

Well Viola, you are right about that part on the american women, except that I don't call them "career women" but women at work. There's a huge difference between working and having a career. A career is not to go punch in and out and wait for a paycheck... it's a devotion. And it's absolutely not true that a career woman automaticaly give up on their children's need for affection and education...

Posted by: VAD

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 10 Dec 06 12:58

Quoting: Jokie Jokie Girl
Quoting: Martha
If you think that looking after children is nothing, much easier, then you are wrong. What faced and handled by a worker is the subject not alive while what faced and handled by household wife is something alive..children! They have heart and mind while the job you handle has no heart nor mind. Does it male sense, guys...?

I prefer living life according to my “kodrat” as a woman. In my eyes, a household wife (who tajes care of family as well, not the one who knows nothing what to do in household) looks much more respected than a woman director having husband who gives the responsibility of looking after children upto a baby sitter.


absolutely, you are right, madam wink
as a women we have a "kodrat" that necessary as a household..but it was doesn't meant that we can do nothing...and let our self do nothing, right? am I correct?

yeah, I came from a family that not well educated enough..except me and my oldest brother..when my father knew that I'm doing my master..he was look like suprise and say " what for???, you're a women! no need to be master degree coz whatever happened you gonna back to the kitchen"..

of course I'm gonna back to the kitchen as a homesrvant for my family, I'm gonna back to bed as a bitch for my husband..and the other time..I'll be a nice and smart worker for my company wink

If you think that being a household wife has nothing to do, then you are wrong. It means you don’t understand. Looking after children is much more tiring and really demands the update knowledge regardingly time to time in monitoring their growth.

There is many questions from them (everyone is aware that kids in their age always wants to know anything) that you have to explain by their ‘language’ and sometimes that is not easy. Their questions are about many things, you know. It may be about any stuffs in space (planets), about animals, plants/flowers, desease/health, friends, feelings etc. Can you explain them without you updating your knowledge?

You lack of the knowledge regardingly (alias kurang wawasan).

While.. what you doing as a career woman? Just a rutinity time to time. Smarter..? More knowledged..? How far do you feel more modern..?


Posted by: Shesca

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 10 Dec 06 20:49

This is what I think Martha:

Being a house wife is DEFINITELY the toughest job in the world. It's not easy and its FREE. The later part is probably the strong reason why some ppl are thinking that being housewife=doing nothing. Admit it, if there is a salary, commensurate with the work we do as a housewife, which will be extremelly high, people will line up to be one.
OK pointed out that it's not about money if the wives work. I agree to that statement, but to some degree only. Here are some reasons why wives are going to work nowadays, at least the Indonesians:
1. One income is not enough to live a comfortable life. Of course this is relative. How comfortable is comfortable? But this is one of the reasons why both husband and wife work.

2. Uncertainty of marriage. More and more people are not obeying their wedding vows and end their marriage before deaths parting them. In this case, some may argue about support that husbands will give to the wifes after the separation, but how certain is it? And is it really going to be enough? How many men are gentlemen enough to be consistently supporting their wives? I have a friend whose parents are still living in one roof while the father keep on having sex with other women with the knowledge of the mother. Why? Coz the mother can't do anything. She's never worked her whole life. She is so scared that she will not make it alone out there that she let a divorce happens.

3. This one is related to no. 2. Not exactly related to money, but worth discussing. More and more husbands are looking down at their wives when they are "JUST" a housewife. Those suckers will not listen to their wives opinion because they think they know NOTHING. And when it comes to the point during an argument while he cant argue anymore, he would say things like: I am the bread and butter of this family, just shut up. And guess what, he's right. But how about the wife's role? I raraly see an argument that ends with the wife saying: I do all the housework and take care of the kids. So shut up!!!

4.This one may be not really a reflection of the whole society, but it's gearing more and more into this direction. Not exactly right/correct, but this is what i see as happenings around us.
Most people need others' approval living in this world. It's like drugs, you get some kind of ecstasy when you receive approval. That's why you dress nice to look good, being friendly to others so they like you, etc. Having a career is one of them. Society see career women as one class higher than housewives. Especially in Eastern countries where women emancipation is a baby compared to the West. It is surprisingly the other way around in the west. Actually a lot of my western friends would DO ANYTHING for them to be able to stop working and becoming a house wife. But they cant afford it.

About bringing up kids while staying as a career woman, if you do it right, it will turn right. Staying as a housewife is not exactly a guarantee of good education to the little ones. How many housewives would rather spend time shopping with other mommies while leaving the kids alone at home, daycare, etc. A lot of people Iknow have both parents work and still turn out ok as a solid individual.

I guess your opinion is not wrong, just not exactly right. It will definitely work in a perfect and certain world. Where divorce never happens, people can live a comfortable life with just one income, society see being a housewife as one of top class career, etc.
Posted by: Orang Kanada

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 11 Dec 06 04:54

Can I bring 2 totaly opposite exemples? (both "western")

1. My parents. My father always worked hard to provide for the family while my mom stayed home taking care of my brother and I. And believe me, my mom worked hard, not only to raise us well but to keep the house clean, etc... With the time, I can say I had a very happy childhood. The only bad side was the fact that my father didn't had enough time for my brother and I, he wasn't there most of the time and when he was there he was to tired to play wih us. But my mother always make sure that we understand the reason why and we always been grateful to him.

Time passed, the kids grew up, leave the parents home. My father retired. My mom? She start working! Why? She get bored with the household only... My father never really stop working, it's just that now he's "working" on his hobby, repairing old tractors and cars he collect. The moral is, you have to keep yourself busy! hehe

2. My brother. He have an excellent job and his wife too. They started working in the same time in "equivalent" jobs; the salary, the social status, etc. They even had promotions the same year in their respective jobs, reaching the top at the young age of 29. If you talk about successful career, you think of them. See the portrait? Well they have two child now. My sister-in-law is still working, except for the year following each birth of course (whitch is common in Canada). Yes, the kids spend their days in daycare center and now at school. And at the evening and week-ends, they have 2 loving and caring parents who take care of them. You cannot imagine more happy kids! My brother is more than a good father... and my sister-in-law is fantastic too. They are the living proof it is possible for a career woman to face both family and career. But guess what, my brother have half of all house and parent duties, except for cleaning and stuff, they have a maid, why not?

MY POINT IS, whatever the family structure, good persons will have a great family. Mom's at work or at home, it don't matter. What matter the most is if she's a good mother for her kids and if she have a good husband who support her whatever her duties are. Is it so hard to understand? Whatever if we are in the east or the west, a family is a family. A couple is couple. As long as the love and maybe more important, the respect is there.



Posted by: Orang Kanada

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 11 Dec 06 04:58

According to the topic... remember the topic? Maia IS a good mother. Ahmad is not supportive to her. Worst, he attack his own wife in public. THAT make him a bad husband. THAT make him an ass.
Posted by: Polar Bear

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 11 Dec 06 06:08

Today I happened to find an Arabic Festival in a Sydney park. I noticed one Arab with two women, both veiled, bout h pushing prams. I would assume his two wives. I assume he thinks he has a cultural allowance to continue his time honoured custom of multiple wives. And who am I to make comment?

I can trace my family back 1034 years. About 35 generations. Its quite interesting – one of my ancestors married “a kinswoman of William the Conqueror” and was given vast tracts of land in Northern England, on condition that he keep the Scots out. The family built a bloody big castle., fought in every war they could. I guess they were a bit crazy.

They were also very naughty. In fact downright evil. The murdered anyone they didn’t like (and they didn’t like a lot of people). They regularly forayed into Scotland raping and stealing. When that became boring they raided English villages and did the same thing.

But just like the Arab guy, they had some interesting cultural beliefs. They had the right to “first bed” any girl in one of almost 130 villages they controlled. That meant they could shag the brains out of a girl on her wedding night, before her new husband got a chop at her. (The logic being the son would not know if he was the Local Lords offspring, making him a bit more loyal….)

They also had the right to invade anywhere they felt like, steal anything they fancied, and shag all of those women as well. They did a lot of that as well. Six of them died on the Crusades…..

We English were indulging into the “invade and steal” thing up until 1939. (We seem to have given up on it these days, and the Americans have taken up the task).

But my point is this: I don’t follow these “customary traditions” any more... they are outdated and illegal in my country.

So why does this Arab continue with HIS “customary traditions”?
Posted by: Jokie Jokie Girl

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 11 Dec 06 09:09

Quoting: Martha
Quoting: Jokie Jokie Girl
Quoting: Martha


I prefer living life according to my “kodrat” as a woman. In my eyes, a household wife (who tajes care of family as well, not the one who knows nothing what to do in household) looks much more respected than a woman director having husband who gives the responsibility of looking after children upto a baby sitter.


absolutely, you are right, madam wink

yeah, I came from a family that not well educated enough..except me and my oldest brother..when my father knew that I'm doing my master..he was look like suprise and say " what for???, you're a women! no need to be master degree coz whatever happened you gonna back to the kitchen"..

of course I'm gonna back to the kitchen as a homesrvant for my family, I'm gonna back to bed as a bitch for my husband..and the other time..I'll be a nice and smart worker for my company wink

If you think that being a household wife has nothing to do, then you are wrong. It means you don’t understand. Looking after children is much more tiring and really demands the update knowledge regardingly time to time in monitoring their growth.

There is many questions from them (everyone is aware that kids in their age always wants to know anything) that you have to explain by their ‘language’ and sometimes that is not easy. Their questions are about many things, you know. It may be about any stuffs in space (planets), about animals, plants/flowers, desease/health, friends, feelings etc. Can you explain them without you updating your knowledge?

You lack of the knowledge regardingly (alias kurang wawasan).



okie...nggak nyimak pernyataan ya bu??

as a women we have a "kodrat" that necessary as a household..but it was doesn't meant that we can do nothing...and let our self do nothing, right? am I correct?
simak-lah baik-baik, no need moaning as a divorce women that really never get touching from a man! cry

While.. what you doing as a career woman? Just a rutinity time to time. Smarter..? More knowledged..? How far do you feel more modern..?

I do noting as a career women, I just coming to the ofiice, teasing my boss and also the clients, browsing on the internet looking for a sugar daddy that can pay me much.. upyours

I'm not smarter than Kuku, PB or ric but I'm smarter than you wink

no much knowladge in my self, but i know enough what I want, no need to be hypocrite as a women.. shoot

I also not modern women, unfashion, I'm classic, I'm the island girl that very conservative smile

as a women, I'm not a mom yet, but I know how to make a baby everynight upyours

and you??? do you still remember how to make a baby??? shoot shoot

open your eyes widely and also your ears...
see your around then you know how unknowladge you are than me upyours upyours

who cares you anyway upyours shoot

Posted by: 0101

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 11 Dec 06 23:59

i think maia said something about dhani couldn't get it up or something... i dunno, it's hard to hear her when she suck me like that
Posted by: Jokie Jokie Girl

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 12 Dec 06 00:35

Quoting: Lilly
Everyone has the way to enjoy life on their space. If you couldn’t live without career as career might be the only way to regain your selfconfidence, then it’s the best way for you to feel cozier and happier THIS TIME.

Ok, Good luck...

I am still against the emancipation from west that just makes children grew up the same way as orphanes. Anyway, actually the emancipation RA Kartini struggled in the past didn’t mean that if only you knew the true phylosophy of the emancipation RS Kartini meant.


Kartini and Indonesians Women

Gender discrimination has been around since the beginning of human existence. However, it seems that women have just become aware of the problem not so long ago. For many years, women didn’t play an important role in the material of the world. The world was dominated by men .

A recently as the late 19th century, in the USA, women didn’t play important public roles. Though some of them were educated, they could not break the authority of patriarchal culture. Then they revolted. They demanded their rights as citizens. One of the rights they asked for was the right to vote.

Since then, the women’s movement has become more obvious. It’s happening everywhere, icluding in Indonesia. We can say that the women’s movement in Indonesia started in late 19th century. However, unlike in America, in Indonesia the movement happened sporadically. Most pioneers of this movement, such as RA Kartini, Dewi Sartika and Rohana Koedoes, were more concerned about educating rights as citizens. This can be understood because at the time Indonesia was still occupied by the Dutch.
Now the condition for women is much better than it was in the 19th century. Women can vote and be elected for a particular position. Legally, they have the same rights as men. Does it mean that there’s no gender discrimination anymore? I’m afraid say that gender discrimination still happens


Equality

Gender equality is something easy to talk about but difficult to apply perhaps it’s true to say that now days girls are given “more space” to develop themselves. However, people’s perspectives of gender equality vary from person to person. Some men are very open-minded with a new paradigm of women being equal to men. They have no problem with gender equality and don’t feel threatened by it. So, they don’t mind competing with women to be the best in a particular field. Other men’s attitudes are average moderate. These men can accept equality, but they set down limits, though sometimes the limits are still arguable. A very strict male attitude is not tolerating what so ever with equality. Supporters of this view think that each gender has its own duties and the duties are clear. They cannot be changed

Being LeadersPerhaps one of the things that cannot be changed for certain people is having a women leader. It’s true that we have Megawati Soekarno Putri as our ex president. During the last presidential election some voters in MPR clearly stated their objection to having a women as president. Their objection varied, but mostly they opposed the idea because their principle was that women cannot be an effective leader. On a smaller scale such things still happen. Is just example when a women comes up to an election, sometimes people tend to wonder whether she could do the job well or not. Even if the candidate herself has clearly stated that she’s capable, people still doubt her. The doubts usually are not based on competence but more on gender
Ironically, the doubts are sometimes also stated by women. Some women would prefer to have a male leader rather than a female leader. The reasons? Varied, I guess.

Women’s Roles
People’s opinions women’s roles are diverse. In some cultures, women are valued by their capability to perform domestic chores, such as cooking, taking care of the house and caring for the children. They are not encouraged to work outside of home. And when they are not good at domestic chores (although good at some other things), people tend to look down on them.
What about working women?
Now days, more and more women are joining the workforce. In big cities like Jakarta, people are getting use to this phenomenon. However, those women are expected to perform their double roles as career women and housewives. They might have a carrier outside the house, but they should not ignore their domestic chores.
Perhaps the most moderate school of thought is best illustrated by the following view on women. Women may have a career but at the same time they should not forget domestic duties. However, they may share the responsibility of doing the domestic chores with their spouses. But of course, this can only happen if there’s an understanding between the two parties

Percepction
It seems that many girls prefer to be appreciated based on their physical appearance rather than their intellectual skills. This statement may sound exaggerated, but if we take a look at the commercial in the media, we may see some truth in it. Another proof is the beauty contest. It is true that participants of beauty contest should b intelligent and smart. But a smart-intelligent-but-not-so-pretty girl won’t stand a chance in such competitions. This means that beauty come first.
Girls preference to be valued for their outer beauty might be the reason who we tend not to trust females to be leaders. Perhaps we think that when a girl prefers to be valued for her outer beauty, she will care more about her appearance and doesn’t really care about other things. Is that true? I guess it would be stereotyping if we judge every girl that way. But like it or not, this’s what some of us think.

In theory, women and men have the same rights and responsibilities according to law. In practice, however, the discrimination still occurs. Why does it still happen and how does it happen?

Posted by: Choc_Cow

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 12 Dec 06 02:11

Shes, great points.. couldnt agree more with you!!.

There is no 1 universal solution for everyone. Not every woman is built to be a housewife and vice versa not every woman dreams to be a career woman. Everyone is different. I think this discussion was fun while ppl were trying to share their opinion (it gave me a pointer or two), but it's gonna be tiresome if a person try to convince another person on what's right or wrong.

You can cling to your family & be the perfect housewife, but love is unpredictable you may think you love them the right way till your kids rebel one day. You may think career is what your passionate about, but you may come home to an empty house & realise that hey you've missed out on alot.

Bottom line is.. in Social science no one can tell exactly 100% that 1 thing is right or wrong, there are simply too many factors to consider (hence.. shesca's 'careful wordings' lol)

So do whatever you like..
Posted by: Jokie Jokie Girl

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 12 Dec 06 02:27

intinya mah..the all choices in our hands..

house wife or career women..

Posted by: Lulu

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 12 Dec 06 02:45

Take it easy JJG babe, some people are just so brain thick. Btw honey, you kinda sexy when you are bitching like that....*smooches*


Posted by: Orang Kanada

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 12 Dec 06 02:56

Quoting: Chocolatea

I think this discussion was fun while ppl were trying to share their opinion (it gave me a pointer or two), but it's gonna be tiresome if a person try to convince another person on what's right or wrong.


Interesting... you made me realize something. Check this out:

There's 2 clan here, the conservatives women and the progressives women. And me, the only man following this discussion, putting gasoline on the fire... kuku

The thing you put to my attention is the conclusion of every progressive women is; it's up to every women to decide what's best for them. Whitch is a progressive solution! (solution that I agree with) It's the only logical solution....

On the other side, the consevatives have no choice but trying to convince us, because if they let the discussion open, the progressives wins!!! Of course, the progressive and logical solution, wins, so... But the problem is the only arguments they seems to find is treats, saying you're losers or worst...

Now, have your own conclusion! ('coz I'm getting tired of this... it's obvious this can continue for years...)
Posted by: Lulu

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 12 Dec 06 05:14

Quoting: Orang Kanada

Now, have your own conclusion! ('coz I'm getting tired of this... it's obvious this can continue for years...)


Pheeeewwwww...finally, someone here making some senses! OK, *hugs*!









Posted by: Jokie Jokie Girl

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 12 Dec 06 07:23

Quoting: LuKukuLu
Take it easy JJG babe, some people are just so brain thick. Btw honey, you kinda sexy when you are bitching like that....*smooches*


yoi, I know..I'm too bitchy sometimes and it's make my boss like me and my boyfriend dump me wink
Posted by: Hola Hop

Re: Ahmad vs. Maia - 17 Dec 06 07:50

Quoting: Orang Kanada
[quote=Chocolatea]
....because if they let the discussion open, the progressives wins!!! Of course, the progressive and logical solution, wins, so... But the problem is the only arguments they seems to find is treats, saying you're losers or worst...

Now, have your own conclusion! ('coz I'm getting tired of this... it's obvious this can continue for years...)

The progressive will win cause of being logically...? Exactly it's a winning solution financially, not logically (if you are honest, of course). It's the conservative will win if the both let the discussion open based on knowledge regardingly not subjectivity.