Darwinism in action??

Posted by: riccardo

Darwinism in action?? - 08 Nov 07 07:35

There's been some discussion of the Darwin Awards elsewhere on Jakchat and after reading an article about the extremely high maternal mortality rates in Indonesia and other backward places, it dawned on me that this is actually Darwinism in action -- survival of the fittest and smartest.

Excerpts from the article:
---------------------------------------------

Indonesia: Poor maternal health killing mothers and children
Denpasar, 6 Nov. (AKI) – Too many children and mothers are dying due to poor maternal health worldwide, an international conference has been told. Experts attending a 3-day conference in Bali also highlighted how common poor health care was in many developing countries, such as Indonesia.

Indonesia's World Health Organization reproductive health advisor, Dr. Laura Guarenti, said in addition to skilled care, it was necessary to provide community information.

“Women and their families must be educated so they recognise pregnancy complications and seek medical care,” Guarenti told AdnKronos International (AKI).

Indonesia has the highest maternal mortality rate in Southeast Asia, with 307 deaths in 2004, according to the Human Development Report from the United Nations’ Development Program.

/.../

Giving a global view, Professor Staffan Bergström from the Karolinska Institutet in Sweden, called maternal death "a crime of neglect, ignorance, indifference and inaction".

"A society that tolerates maternal death is violating a human right: Women’s right to survive," he added.

"This is the scandal of our time," he asserted.

In regard to female mortality during childbirth, a WHO estimate put the total at some 536,000 worldwide in 2005. Of these deaths, 86 percent occurred in sub-Saharan Africa and South Asia and less than 1 percent in more developed countries.

------------------------------------------------

So the question becomes: Is it really in the global society's interest to have these illiterate, ignorant people reproducing? If they are too dumb to figure out how to read up on the most basic health matters and keep themselves healthy while pregnant, do we want these people raising children? Do we want even more ridiculously dumb citizens to vote for even more dumb leaders to lead these already backward countries?

I know it's an extremely harsh view, sure to get the Politically Correct Nazis into a state of frenzy, but if we can put such "feelings" aside for a moment, ask yourselves: Are these death tolls nature's way of keeping the human species viable -- able to survive?



Posted by: chewwyUK

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 08 Nov 07 07:51

Sounds reasonable to me ric ... but we need to think about where should we begin the cull to ensure the future of the master race? Personally I think our best bet would be America but you may disagree.

Call me a "Politically Correct Nazi" but what a load of crap. They aren't "DUMB" people ric they just haven't had access to any sort of decent education.

"DUMB" is making ignorant statements when you have had a good eduction.
Posted by: riccardo

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 08 Nov 07 08:49

Quoting: chewwyUK
"DUMB" is making ignorant statements when you have had a good eduction.


There was no statement in there. When there are question marks at the end of a sentence that means it's a question. A question, by definition, means the person posing it is not entirely sure about something and is seeking answers.

I didn't say "we" should cull anybody, I was wondering if we are, in fact, seeing nature take care of itself -- Darwinism in action.

Your answers were two-fold:
1. "a load of crap" (brilliant analysis)
2. "they don't have access to education."

Ask yourself why they don't have access to education. Is it their own fault? If it isn't, then whose fault is it? Why, in this day and age of modern communication and access to so much information do they not have access to or understand the most basic survival instinct? That is, reproduction of the species.

Our caveman ancestors clearly understood more about basic health, nutrition and child-bearing than these half-wits who are dying off in the millions. Do we see such maternal mortality and infant mortality among other mammals? NO. So something is terribly awry and it has nothing to do with governments or numbers of schools or Internet penetration rates.
Posted by: chewwyUK

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 08 Nov 07 09:02

Ummm -- you seem to think "DUMB is making ignorant statements when you have had a good eduction." refers to your drivel, post cut and paste. It is just a general opinion

As for the rest I stopped reading after the first paragraph.
Posted by: Gentleman

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 08 Nov 07 10:46

you said; "Do we see such maternal mortality and infant mortality among other mammals?"
of course!? Why would you say no? never checked out animal planet on your tv? huge percentages of infant mammals don't make it to adulthood, depending on the mammal, for some it's higher rates than others.
Plus your remark on the availability of information....??? ever been really really poor? you know what that can do to people? try poor and isolated? maybe hard to understand from your position, but try a little empathy and you might get a glimpse of how the other half live.
Posted by: chewwyUK

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 08 Nov 07 10:48

you forget ask how ric thinks "Our caveman ancestors clearly understood more about basic health, nutrition and child-bearing than these half-wits who are dying off in the millions." given the life expectancy and infant mortality rates back then
Posted by: chewwyUK

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 08 Nov 07 10:49

btw Gentleman -- nice to see you positing
Posted by: Gentleman

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 08 Nov 07 11:01

Hello ChewwyUK, thanks. It's my first time here on this chat. I just signed up.
Posted by: Dilli

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 08 Nov 07 11:40

Nice start, we look forward to more
Posted by: riccardo

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 08 Nov 07 11:52

Hi and welcome to Jakchat Gentleman and thanks for your reply.

Okay let's try this again, some of us may either be a bit confused about the topic or are trying to steer it elsewhere. The term "Maternal Mortality Rate" refers to the number of mothers that die during pregnancy or delivery. It is not necessarily the life expectancy rate after they are born and not the number of baby giraffes that get eaten by lions... Simply put, the ability to reproduce the species without dying in the process.

This is a "modern" phenomenon (in terms of the huge numbers and percentages) which leads me to suspect (not assert or state as an absolute fact) that perhaps Mother Nature/Darwinism/Malthusianism is actively at work here trying to keep the population of the species to only those that are strong enough and smart enough to survive.
Posted by: chewwyUK

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 08 Nov 07 11:58

no wonder i was so confused .. I thought you said "So the question becomes: Is it really in the global society's interest to have these illiterate, ignorant people reproducing? If they are too dumb to figure out how to read up on the most basic health matters and keep themselves healthy while pregnant, do we want these people raising children? Do we want even more ridiculously dumb citizens to vote for even more dumb leaders to lead these already backward countries?"
Posted by: Dilli

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 08 Nov 07 12:11

Dilli buys popcorn and settles down,,,,
Posted by: riccardo

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 08 Nov 07 12:45

Chew, indeed those are the questions I have posed. What do you think the answers are to those questions????? If I put it another way, do you think it's a good use of money/resources to pour ever more tax dollars and donations into these UN agencies and NGOs that are so stressed about this problem?

At the end of the day, that's why these guys like Professor Staffan Bergström are complaining. They want society (all of us) to pour more resources into life-support systems (and fighting against the will of Mother Nature) which will merely contribute to the downfall of our species by producing more people that can't survive on their own.

Eventually, the 'survival of the fittest' will become the 'fittest barely surviving because they are using all their resources to pay for life-support systems for people that Mother Nature does not want to survive'.

Posted by: doremi

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 08 Nov 07 12:56

When one doesn’t have enough to put food on the table, one can hardly think about anything (self-care or healthcare). Maslow eloquently stated that one must satisfy the basic needs, needs for food, shelter before anything else.
I think it’s arrogant to say that these women don’t know anything. Perhaps what need to be done is to educate these women on how to care for themselves and their babies. I do think it’s the role of government to do so.
Posted by: riccardo

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 08 Nov 07 13:13

Hi Doremi, haven't seen you around in a while and thanks for your reply.

If you're going to bring Maslow into this, then let's keep it accurate. All behavior has a genetic component at the primary level, and that is chiefly inspired by three instincts that are well-implanted in the genes: REPRODUCTION, security and food.

If a human is unable to reproduce without dying, Mother Nature is sending a strong message. I would agree with you that Mother Nature's laws can seem quite arrogant and likely offend our "modern" PC sensibilities because they are so strict. But it's not like that. Mother Nature isn't interested in arrogance, she's interested in survival of the species. So, I'm not sure we can fight against Mother Nature and not face the consequences eventually.
Posted by: Scotty

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 08 Nov 07 17:45

Are these death tolls nature's way of keeping the human species viable -- able to survive? – In short, the answer is NO.

The situation of maternal mortality brought on by poor education has been created by the very people who want to use Eugenics as the reason to reduce even further their level of responsibility as part of society. Those in charge do not want a fully educated populace, as a fully educated populace would be harder to control. They just want education for those that can afford it. And the only people that can afford it are the educated. It’s a self-perpetuating cycle very closely guarded by the scared social elite. It has nothing to do with nature; it’s purely a man-made situation.


Do we want even more ridiculously dumb citizens to vote for even more dumb leaders to lead these already backward countries?

Supposedly intelligent people have been voting for dumb leaders in the USA and the UK for years. Both of these are countries where the maternal mortality rate is low. The general populace will be manipulated into a specific voting pattern no matter how “intelligent” or “feeble minded” they are supposed to be.


Mother Nature isn't interested in arrogance, she's interested in survival of the species.

Why would Mother Nature be interested in the survival of a species that has monopolised and abused the vast majority of the planet’s resources for its own needs, without much consideration of the other species on the planet? If Mother Nature is supporting the survival of this species, then is Mother Nature not expediting her own demise?
Mother Nature does not care about the survival of the human race. Nature cares about the balance which will allow nature to continue to exist and thrive. Things were okay before humans arrived on the scene, things will be okay after humans have left the building.


Eventually, the 'survival of the fittest' will become the 'fittest barely surviving because they are using all their resources to pay for life-support systems for people that Mother Nature does not want to survive'.

Do you also propose to set an age limit after which the population submit to a cull? Similar to Logan’s Run? If we are to abandon the less-intelligent because they are a drain on society’s resources, are we not also bound to abandon the old and the sick? Think of the resources that could be saved by not having to research and treat disease like AIDS, Alzheimer’s, Cancer, and old-age.

Anyway, thats the end of my rant.
Posted by: Roy's Hair

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 08 Nov 07 18:00

Nice one Centurian. Like it. Mother nature is in fact callously indifferent to all, just get those DNA spirals shifted across the generations by hook or by crook is all it wants to do. But nature isn't just bloody in tooth and claw, We are also genetically programmed and predetermined to cooperate with each other, basically like all that economist game theory shit....That's why we're done for. This planet couldn't cooperate itself out of a paper bag at the moment. Living in huge anonymous city's dispensing death by remote control has wreaked havoc with our leaders' pre-fontal lobes. I say we throw in the towel now.
Posted by: riccardo

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 08 Nov 07 19:45

Good posts RH and Scotty. This is more like the direction I was hoping for with this thread.

The background to it is this: I've been raised to believe, as I'm sure most of you have, that it is just an absolute given that we must help the poor and oppressed to live full lives with dignity. In fact, I did my Master's Degree in that very subject -- 3rd World Economic Development. After two decades of working with and among the poor via NGOs and UN agencies, I have become somewhat disillusioned in both the people being "helped" as well as the "helpers" from said organizations. Such disillusionment has led me to wrestle with such questions. So rather than terming these questions "drivel" or "crap" or "arrogance", I'd rather have a good discussion and see where others are coming from on these things. That article about maternal mortality and that European professor's outrage were merely the impetus for finally airing these questions.

Specific things: Scotty, what exactly do you mean by this bit, "The situation of maternal mortality brought on by poor education has been created by the very people who want to use Eugenics..."?
I understand and fully agree with you on your point about leaders keeping citizens ignorant. Tony Benn elucidated all that very eloquently to Mike Moore in "SiCKO".

On Mother Nature's nature: I think both of you guys and I fundamentally disagree on what that is. I consider humans as a natural part of the flora and fauna that make up Mother Nature -- all going through the evolutionary journey together. It's just that we are a really tripped-out unique species, and the only one I can think of that artificially keeps people alive -- people that by all rights would be dead if Mother Nature or Chuck Darwin had their way.

Finally, I'd recommend one book and one influential essay that have been bothering me for nearly 20 years as I've continually tried to push them to the back of my mind.

1. The Lords of Poverty: The Power, Prestige, and Corruption of the International Aid Business
by Graham Hancock
http://www.amazon.com/Lords-Poverty-Prestige-Corruption-International/dp/0871134691

2. Lifeboat Ethics: the Case Against Helping the Poor
by Garrett Hardin
http://www.garretthardinsociety.org/articles/art_lifeboat_ethics_case_against_helping_poor.html
Posted by: Dilli

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 08 Nov 07 20:07

"In fact, I did my Master's Degree"

I think what most people that posted were getting at is that 99.99% of the worlds population will never be able to attain what you have!

Different courses for different horses!
Posted by: Dilli

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 08 Nov 07 20:17

Let me add to that!

The sooner the world starts "getting it through their thick brain" that basic education is "cheap" the sooner we dont need to have threads like this at all!

No response required thank you!

Mother Theresa was right. If you don't want to learn, get used to having things shoved up your arse for the rest of your life!

If you are not able to learn, you will be forgiven!

Amen
Posted by: kenyeung

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 08 Nov 07 20:20

Quoting: riccardo
1. The Lords of Poverty: The Power, Prestige, and Corruption of the International Aid Business
by Graham Hancock
http://www.amazon.com/Lords-Poverty-Prestige-Corruption-International/dp/0871134691

2. Lifeboat Ethics: the Case Against Helping the Poor
by Garrett Hardin
http://www.garretthardinsociety.org/articles/art_lifeboat_ethics_case_against_helping_poor.html


Also highly worth reading for further illumination in this area are:

'No Money, No Honey' by David Brazil.

and

'"Hello My Big Big Honey!" Love Letters to Bangkok Bar Girls' by Dave Walker and Richard S. Ehrlich.

and

'The Lobotomies: A Maverick Medical Genius and His Tragic Quest to Rid the World of Mental Illness and Smug Xenophobic Gits' by Jasper McSpaniel.
Posted by: Scotty

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 08 Nov 07 22:37

Quoting: riccardo


Specific things: Scotty, what exactly do you mean by this bit, "The situation of maternal mortality brought on by poor education has been created by the very people who want to use Eugenics..."?




What I'm referring to here is the manipulation of population development by using education as a tool of those supporting the social philosophy of eugenics.
It's interesting to note that when eugenics was taught at many colleges and universities in the USA, funding was provided by prestigious sources such as the Rockefeller Foundation, the Carnegie Institution, and the Harriman family - all these institutions are well known for their wealth and their prominent part in the social elite. Was there an equal amount of funding provided by these institutes to educate the poor? I doubt it.

As someone else said: "basic education is cheap". The problem is that although it's cheap in monetary terms, those in power realise that the flip-side of providing basic education to the masses would likely have a long lasting negative effect on their positions at the top of society.
Posted by: naga

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 08 Nov 07 23:52

"Mother Theresa was right. If you don't want to learn, get used to having things shoved up your arse for the rest of your life!"

uhh, that's a verbatim quote is it?

the saucy old tart....

and as the Dead Kennedy's said, "Kill the Poor", i'm all for Darwinism; let's start with the Chinese, Indians, the Middle East and the southern part of the USA....
Posted by: Dilli

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 09 Nov 07 03:43

Lets cull alphabeticaly..

Thank Fuck I'm from Zimbabwe
Posted by: chewwyUK

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 09 Nov 07 05:13

"Good posts RH and Scotty. This is more like the direction I was hoping for with this thread."


.... if thats true then maybe you shouldnt have started the thread with

"Is it really in the global society's interest to have these illiterate, ignorant people reproducing? If they are too dumb to figure out how to read up on the most basic health matters and keep themselves healthy while pregnant, do we want these people raising children? Do we want even more ridiculously dumb citizens to vote for even more dumb leaders to lead these already backward countries?"


You will probably find you will get more rational dialogue if you used less emotive language. Using terms such as "Ignortant, Dumb and "ridiculously dumb" to describe people who live in poverty on a daily basis sickens me. The quote above makes you look very arrogant and displays a complete lack of compassion or empathy.

You may have I high IQ rick but if you worked a little on your Emotional Intelligence levels you might find you get the sorts of exchanges you always hoped for.
Posted by: Dilli

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 09 Nov 07 05:39

Claws in....
Posted by: Roy's Hair

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 09 Nov 07 08:48

Quoting: Scotty


As someone else said: "basic education is cheap". The problem is that although it's cheap in monetary terms, those in power realise that the flip-side of providing basic education to the masses would likely have a long lasting negative effect on their positions at the top of society.


Exactly, and this is Indonesia's big problem, the Soeharto Era anti-intellectualism remains deeply entrenched. This, combined with the polite non-complaining culture here means it's hard to wrest power from the ultra rich toads in charge.
Posted by: Roy's Hair

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 09 Nov 07 08:49

...and it would please me enormously if Dilli would make a Photoshopped picture of Mother Theresa having things shoved up her wrinkly, balloon knot of an arse.
Posted by: Gentleman

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 09 Nov 07 08:53

Maybe they should just sterilize all the poor and ignorant people? Problem solved, only worthwhile rich clever people will then continue our species. people like bush, soeharto, soros, trump etc... so who would get to decide? "I'm sorry madam, you are poor and ignorant, so we won't waste our resources on you... die!"
Posted by: Roy's Hair

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 09 Nov 07 09:03

I don't think such Eugenics would work, look at Soeharto and Soekarno's dipshit offspring if proof were needed. A prime case of nurture over nature.
Posted by: Dilli

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 09 Nov 07 09:10

Quoting: Roy's hair
...and it would please me enormously if Dilli would make a Photoshopped picture of Mother Theresa having things shoved up her wrinkly, balloon knot of an arse.


A challenge worthy of my talents at last!
Posted by: riccardo

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 09 Nov 07 10:08

Quoting: chewwyUK

You will probably find you will get more rational dialogue if you used less emotive language. Using terms such as "Ignorant, Dumb and "ridiculously dumb" to describe people who live in poverty on a daily basis sickens me. The quote above makes you look very arrogant and displays a complete lack of compassion or empathy.


I agree Cheww. Guilty as charged, but with an explanation. I'll highlight a couple of other KEY things that I've said in this thread so you might be able to empathize and see where I'm coming from at this point in my life. You seem to have decided that these are rhetorical questions from me. They're not. I'm actually looking for some answers.

Original post:
I know it's an extremely harsh view ... but if we can put such (PC) "feelings" aside for a moment, ask yourselves:

/.../
7th or 8th post down:
The background to this: I've been raised to believe, as I'm sure most of you have, that it is just an absolute given that we must help the poor and oppressed to live full lives with dignity ... After two decades of working with and among the poor via NGOs and UN agencies, I have become somewhat disillusioned in both the people being "helped" as well as the "helpers" ...
Posted by: Gentleman

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 09 Nov 07 10:24

riccardo, you said you are disillusioned with the ones helped and the helpers... you also mentioned you were one of those helpers. does that mean that you are disillusioned with yourself too?
Posted by: Dilli

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 09 Nov 07 10:26

Touche!
Posted by: riccardo

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 09 Nov 07 10:39

Quoting: Gentleman
riccardo, you said you are disillusioned with the ones helped and the helpers... you also mentioned you were one of those helpers. does that mean that you are disillusioned with yourself too?


Short answer, yes. I became disillusioned with working with NGOs about 6 years ago and refused to do it anymore, but I still held out hope that at the end of the day, they were doing good work. Now, however, I don't even think that. It's all just a big useless scam and people continue to get poorer and more oppressed while NGOs and UN agencies increase their budgets.
Posted by: sheepshagga

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 12 Feb 09 20:32

"You may have I high IQ rick but if you worked a little on your Emotional Intelligence levels you might find you get the sorts of exchanges you always hoped for".

I can't help but agree with chewwyuk on this particular point. It does seem somewhat lacking in this department.

On the subject of NGO's, I am amazed at the number of employees in these organisations living in swish digs, enjoying a very high standard of living, spending a few days every so often in the feild. Then coming back to Jakarta and saying how tough it was, what a load of bollocks. I wont donate another cent to these particular organisations.
Posted by: kenyeung

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 13 Feb 09 06:09

was wondering when this thread would re-emerge.
Posted by: fred

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 13 Feb 09 06:09

I live in a little village in the sticks.
There are a fair mix of people here from the (by local standards) well off to the extremely poor.
By poor I mean simple wooden hut, dirt floors and electicity/running water being something they dream off.

Same goes for health care on any level. They just don't have the cash so they don't get it. Simple as that.

The question isn't really that health care should be provided FOC but how to do it?

I can't see Indonesia being attacked by anyone next week so I expect they could start by getting rid of the order for new fighter jets. The yanks could lend a hand by dropping a few less smart bombs and using the cash to provide medical facilities in poor countries.
That, by the way, would help US security a shit load more that trying to bomb every fucker they don't like. No bugger wants to kill someone who's helping them out.
Posted by: Dilli

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 13 Feb 09 06:24

*Waits for the second coming of Riccardo*
Posted by: Vulgarian

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 13 Feb 09 08:12

Quoting: fred
I live in a little village in the sticks.
There are a fair mix of people here from the (by local standards) well off to the extremely poor.
By poor I mean simple wooden hut, dirt floors and electicity/running water being something they dream off.

Same goes for health care on any level. They just don't have the cash so they don't get it. Simple as that.

The question isn't really that health care should be provided FOC but how to do it?

I can't see Indonesia being attacked by anyone next week so I expect they could start by getting rid of the order for new fighter jets. The yanks could lend a hand by dropping a few less smart bombs and using the cash to provide medical facilities in poor countries.
That, by the way, would help US security a shit load more that trying to bomb every fucker they don't like. No bugger wants to kill someone who's helping them out.


Pinko.
Posted by: fred

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 13 Feb 09 09:17

Quoting: Vulgarian
Quoting: fred
I live in a little village in the sticks.


Pinko.


I'm becoming a liily livered liberal blush
Posted by: Marmalade

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 13 Feb 09 18:20

Quoting: fred
Quoting: Vulgarian
Quoting: fred
I live in a little village in the sticks.


Pinko.


I'm becoming a liily livered liberal blush


pink o
Posted by: fred

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 13 Feb 09 20:40

That's it I'm going gay and getting a boyfriend.

fancy a shag marmz?
Posted by: Marmalade

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 14 Feb 09 11:23

http://www.shag.com/
Sure - I like his Donna Con Bambino stuff, and the Voyeur collection.
Posted by: Dilli

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 14 Feb 09 11:25

Too much art....
Posted by: Marmalade

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 14 Feb 09 11:26

Jeez... Palestine!
Posted by: Vulgarian

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 18 Mar 09 09:33

I'd do marmz if he had a tight, feminine vagina. Man, I hate those masculine vaginas.

Oh, and if you thought that clicking on a link that said tight, feminine vaginas wouldn't be work safe, award yourself 10 points.
Posted by: Vulgarian

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 18 Mar 09 09:59

I'd still prefer to be aurally seduced by Bill O'Reilly though.
Posted by: Piss Salon

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 18 Mar 09 13:19

Quoting: Vulgarian
I'd still prefer to be aurally seduced by Bill O'Reilly though.


Mate! That's great.
Posted by: Marmalade

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 19 Mar 09 10:31

Mate, of late, your great's been innate. I hate to wait for more great. To date your innate great can sate, but fate? Wait...
Posted by: Vulgarian

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 19 Mar 09 11:01

Tough call. Ok, how about going from accusing your boyfriend of paedophilia to being charged with two felony counts of bestiality in ten minutes?
Posted by: Piss Salon

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 19 Mar 09 14:27

Cops believe that the dog in question, Toby, is a beagle.
Posted by: Marmalade

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 19 Mar 09 15:15

Bitch Fucks Dog.

Posted by: Vulgarian

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 20 Mar 09 15:43

Dog Botherer.
Posted by: Vulgarian

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 22 Mar 09 10:18



Marmz's mum finally comes clean about her son's medical problems and what she does to help.

Posted by: Dilli

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 22 Mar 09 11:11

Bloody hell, 3 years and 29 pages about a mother jerking her kid off?

(Whats your username on that site Vulgy?)
Posted by: Vulgarian

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 22 Mar 09 11:13

Female Guest
Posted by: Polisi Cepek

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 22 Mar 09 11:39

Quoting: Dilli
Bloody hell, 3 years and 29 pages about a mother jerking her kid off?

(Whats your username on that site Vulgy?)


Speaking of doing something pointless over a long time:

Dilli
Pooh Bah

Registered: 26/02/06
Posts: 11111
Loc: Nearest Bar
Posted by: Vulgarian

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 22 Mar 09 12:04



Quoting: Polisi Cepek

Dilli
Pooh Bah

Registered: 26/02/06
Posts: 11111

Posted by: Vulgarian

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 24 Mar 09 09:44

Feeling a bit down in the dumps, love? Here, let me slip you a bareback length - it'll cheer you up.
Posted by: adelina

Re: Darwinism in action?? - 15 Sep 09 17:08

i just wanna say i believe in DESTINY.