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#46930 - 08 Mar 07 00:56 Garuda Crash in Jogja
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
Another DAY, Another Disaster in Indonesia


JAKARTA (AFP) - A Boeing 737-400 jet erupted into flames on landing at Yogyakarta airport in central Indonesia on Wednesday, killing dozens of passengers trapped inside the burning fuselage, officials said.

Australian diplomats and journalists covering Foreign Minister Alexander Downer's visit to Indonesia were among those on the flight from the capital Jakarta. Downer was not on board, Australian officials confirmed.

"I saw many bodies, dozens of bodies badly burnt near the exit," Captain Yos Bintoro, an airport official, told Elshinta radio. "I saw people dead in the cockpit," he added.

Indonesia's Transport Minister Hatta Rajasa told Metro TV station that the plane was carrying 133 passengers and there were 76 confirmed survivors.

Witnesses said the plane from the national carrier Garuda Indonesia caught fire as it landed and then veered off the runway.

Television pictures showed fireman dousing the charred and broken fuselage of the plane as it lay smouldering in the grass off the end of the runway. The tailfin bearing the blue colours of Garuda was almost sheared off.

"I was sleeping then the plane slammed twice and I heard people screaming. It was dark and there was smoke everywhere. I saw many passengers hurt," said Din Syamsuddin, the chairman of Indonesian Muslim movement Muhammadiyah, who was on the plane.

"I was sitting not far from the emergency door. I felt someone guide me to the right," he said. "There were many people inside the plane when I got out."

Local hospitals in the Yogyakarta area also said over 50 injured people had been brought in for treatment after the crash.

"The plane is completely burnt. The fire erupted suddenly from the front wheel," one witness, Hariman, told ElShinta radio.

One unnamed passenger told the radio she had managed to escape from the plane in the panic and that many passengers were still behind her. She said she was unsure if they were trapped or had managed to get out.

The Australians on the aircraft included one foreign affairs department official, a federal policeman and "at least five media representatives", Sky television reported from the capital Canberra.

It was believed some of the Australians had survived, but further details were not available, Sky said.

Indonesia's flight safety record has come under renewed scrutiny since an Adam Air Boeing 737-400 with 102 people on board crashed into the sea off the island of Sulawesi on New Year's Day with no survivors.

Last Friday a Boeing 737-200 operated by local Indonesian carrier Merpati Nusantara was forced to make an emergency landing on Batam Island after the pilot reported a dangerous oil leak.

The steady stream of accidents and safety scares involving Indonesian airlines has forced President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono to form a team to evaluate and improve transport safety.

President "Akan" at it again. SBY: "I will now form a team to evaluate transport safety..."
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#46931 - 08 Mar 07 01:02 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: riccardo]
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta


Here's a link to CNN video of the burning wreckage:
Hope it works like this:

CNN video of Garuda
javascript:cnnVideo('play','/video/world/2007/03/06/quiano.bpr.indonesia.plane.fire.cnn','2007/03/20');
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Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

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#46932 - 08 Mar 07 01:03 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: riccardo]
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
JAKARTA, Indonesia (CNN) -- A commercial airliner arriving from Jakarta burst into flames Wednesday upon landing at Yogyakarta airport in central Java, an official there told CNN.

The Garuda Airlines Boeing 737-400 appeared to overshoot the runway before flames shot out, and witnesses reported hearing an explosion, according to media reports.

Reports differed on the number of people onboard. Media reports said 133 passengers and seven crew members were onboard, while Andy Mallarangeng, a spokesman for the Indonesian government, told CNN 115 passengers were onboard.

Among them were Australian government officials and members of the Australian media, The Australian Foreign Ministry in Canberra told CNN. The Australian government released no further information about their fate.

Australian Foreign Minister Alexander Downer was hosting a ministerial meeting on counterterrorism in Jakarta with his Indonesian counterpart, Hassan Wirajuda, this week, according to a March 1 statement issued by him. Several officials, including Attorney General Philip Ruddock, were accompanying him, he said.

The two officials were not on the Garuda Airlines flight but remained in Jakarta and have been traveling on a Royal Australian Air Force plane, department sources told CNN. Members of the Australian press corps were on the Garuda Airlines flight, however.

The number of casualties onboard the plane was unclear, but 76 people were evacuated, according to Indonesia's Transportation Ministry.

"We are still waiting for the latest information" about any passengers who may have been trapped, he said. It was too early to speculate on what caused the plane to erupt in flames, he added.

"Officials are on the site and doing whatever they can for the situation," he said.

Video footage from the scene showed rescue workers and onlookers surrounding the plane's smoking fuselage. The top of the plane appeared to have burned away.

The plane was about 8-9 years old, according to a Garuda Airlines spokesman.

Indonesia has suffered from a string of transportation accidents in recent months, including an Adam Air plane that disappeared in January with more than 100 passengers and crew on board, and a ferry sinking in late December in which hundreds died.

The plane accident Tuesday occurred one day after a 6.3-magnitude earthquake hit western Indonesia, killing at least 70 people and injuring hundreds more.
Full story here:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/03/06/indonesia.earthquake/index.html/
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#46935 - 08 Mar 07 01:04 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: riccardo]
Balibob Offline
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Registered: 14 Jun 06
Posts: 1066
Loc: Bali
President "Akan" at it again. SBY: "I will now form a team to evaluate transport safety..."

BUT we will hide the results of said evaluation because we know its due to bad maintenaince and our courrupt society and it will only again make us look like a 5th world country because that is really what we are and we don't want to lose face yet AGAIN

I don't want to call it a "Mickey Mouse" country as that would deeply offend Mickey
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#46937 - 08 Mar 07 01:23 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: riccardo]
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
I've never understood why people think Garuda is so safe...

1995 casualties not announced


June 1996, 3 dead, 274 injured


Sept. 1997, 234 dead.


Jan. 2002, 1 dead, 60 injured



March 2007, "dozens dead" including Aussie diplomats/journos




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Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

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#46940 - 08 Mar 07 01:46 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: riccardo]
naga Offline
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Registered: 18 Jan 07
Posts: 260
Loc: undisclosed location
"Local Islamic leader Dien Syamsudin, said: I saw a foreigner. His clothes were on fire and I jumped from the emergency exit. Thank God I survived.''

I hope something was lost in translation there....
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#46941 - 08 Mar 07 01:49 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: riccardo]
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
Some more pics...

Bring the whole family from the kampong to view charred bodies:



Local cops having a looky loo and discussing "compensation":

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#46942 - 08 Mar 07 01:53 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: naga]
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
Quoting: naga
"Local Islamic leader Dien Syamsudin, said: I saw a foreigner. His clothes were on fire and I jumped from the emergency exit. Thank God I survived.''

I hope something was lost in translation there....


That wasn't just any local iSlam leader, that was actually MUI SekJen and Muhammadiya Chieftain Din Samsyuddin, the wire reports just butchered the spelling of his name. But yes, indeed a very weird sounding comment.
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#46943 - 08 Mar 07 02:01 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: riccardo]
doremi Offline
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Registered: 17 Jan 07
Posts: 488
Loc: slouch couch
Just a wild idea (just may be)...possibility of suicide killer?
knowing that there were lots of Australians inside. My imagination is running wild now.

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#46947 - 08 Mar 07 02:15 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: doremi]
naga Offline
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Registered: 18 Jan 07
Posts: 260
Loc: undisclosed location
"That wasn't just any local iSlam leader, that was actually MUI SekJen and Muhammadiya Chieftain Din Samsyuddin, the wire reports just butchered the spelling of his name. But yes, indeed a very weird sounding comment."

that's why it got me thinking, i hope he wasn't saying the infidel burned, but thank allah i'm still here...

"Just a wild idea (just may be)...possibility of suicide killer?
knowing that there were lots of Australians inside. My imagination is running wild now."

try thinking about managerial incompetence, corruption and indifference to human suffering instead ...
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#46951 - 08 Mar 07 02:27 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: naga]
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
The death toll rises sharply in past 20 minutes from 8 to 49...

(Reuters) - Forty-nine people have been confirmed dead in a plane crash at the airport of the Indonesian city of Yogyakarta, a government official told Reuters on Wednesday.

"We found 48 dead bodies at the spot. One person died at Sardjito hospital," provincial secretary Bambang Susanto said, referring to the city's main medical centre.
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#46952 - 08 Mar 07 02:42 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: riccardo]
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
ONE really nice thing for this government is that when there are so many disasters one after the other, it's really easy for them to just focus on saying the right things during this current one and ignore the investigations or analysis of all the previous disasters.

The media and the people also have extremely short attention spans and thus won't keep the gov't accountable. For sure, they will "discuss" an investigation on this and then we'll never again hear anything more about it and they'll never be any preventive measures taken as everyone focuses on the next problem.

Any guesses on the next one? I reckon it'll be a bomb at a mall or something.
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Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

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#46953 - 08 Mar 07 02:52 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: riccardo]
riccardo Offline
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Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
The burning wreckage, all I gotta say is those that survived were darn lucky:
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#46955 - 08 Mar 07 02:59 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: riccardo]
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
AUSSIE VIPs onboard:

By Rob Taylor

CANBERRA, March 7 (Reuters) - Yogyakarta has always been a hair-raising destination, with its bumpy, rolling runway seemingly made worse by last year's heavy earthquake.

The expected arrival of Australian Foreign Minister Alexander Downer to meet the city's powerful ruling Sultan meant the Garuda Indonesian jet that caught fire on landing there on Wednesday was carrying a number of Australian government officials and journalists.

Prime Minister John Howard said at least 10 citizens were on board and some remained unaccounted for, including one defence force liaison staffer and an Australian Federal Police officer.

Also missing was an embassy staffer travelling from Jakarta for Downer's visit.

"I've given authority for any aircraft, medical assistance and the like that is needed -- not only for the Australians but for others involved in the accident -- to be made available immediately," Howard said.

At least 49 people were killed but dozens escaped after the Boeing 737-400 carrying 133 passengers and seven crew overshot the runway and burst into flames on landing.

An Australian television cameraman, Wayne Sukarda, reportedly broke both legs in the accident while a journalist with the Sydney Morning Herald, Cynthia Banham, suffered burns to both legs and was recovering in a Yogyakarta hospital.

Downer and Australian Attorney-General Philip Ruddock were not in the city -- Java's ancient capital and a tourist drawcard -- having been delayed in Jakarta following a security summit.

Downer's air force VIP jet was due to fly to the city as soon as the runway was cleared to offer help to any injured Indonesians or Australians requiring medical evacuation.

The rough Yogyakarta strip, used also by Indonesian air force planes, frequently causes aircraft to hit hard while touching down, prompting gasps from passengers as the planes bounce to a shuddering stop.

Garuda's commuter flight from Jakarta was servicing one of the country's busiest air routes, also popular with tourists headed for Yogyakarta's famed Buddhist and Hindu monuments.

Aviation disaster expert Robert Heath said aircraft speed might have been a factor in the crash.

"From what I can see so far the aircraft appeared to land intact and that may point to excess speed being a factor," said Professor Heath, from the University of South Australia.

"The fire may have been caused by the nose wheel hitting things as it ran off the runway or engine destruction. It was probable that a fuel tank was punctured on impact and to me it looks very similar to the Manchester Airport crash in 1985 that showed a burn pattern across the top cabin."
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Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

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#46957 - 08 Mar 07 03:10 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: riccardo]
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
The Garuda official says the plane was "8 or 9 years old" but he lies. Here's the history of this aircraft:

History of the aircraft 737-400
Delivery Date Operator Registration Remark
13/11/1992 Aloha Airlines N402AL
23/04/1996 Star Europe F-GRSC
28/10/1997 Jet Airways VT-JAP
07/10/2002 Garuda PK-GZC lsd GECAS
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Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

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#46958 - 08 Mar 07 03:26 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: riccardo]
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
wrong info... it's the one above.


Edited by riccardo (08 Mar 07 07:48)
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#46966 - 08 Mar 07 05:17 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: riccardo]
Capt. Mainwaring Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 16 Aug 06
Posts: 3225
Loc: here
Which one was it Riccardo ?
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I also made a vegetarian version,with tempe and tofu chunks for myself and others.Get over it.
Kosong.Wolo.Setunggal.Setunggal.Setunggal.Kosong.Pitu.Setunggal.Kosong.Wolo=Tempik

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#46967 - 08 Mar 07 05:18 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: riccardo]
Balibob Offline
Member**

Registered: 14 Jun 06
Posts: 1066
Loc: Bali
I just received an SMS from a mate in Jogja

he say: out of the 19 foreigners on the garuda plane, 12 have been evacuated, 8 aussies, 2 japanese 2 brunei nationals, the 7 others are sill unaccounted for
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#46969 - 08 Mar 07 05:33 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: Balibob]
Capt. Mainwaring Offline
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Registered: 16 Aug 06
Posts: 3225
Loc: here
"Australian Prime Minister John Howard said at least 10 citizens were on board and some remained unaccounted for, including one defence force liason staffer and an Australian Federal Police officer.

However, Garuda's media office said the plane carried just eight Australians, as well as two Japanese, two Brunei nationals and seven other foreigners. "

You mate's SMS would appear to confirm Garuda's story then (or the other way round)
I think that "the 7 others are sill unaccounted for " probably refers to a dodgy translation of "seven other foreigners"


_________________________
I also made a vegetarian version,with tempe and tofu chunks for myself and others.Get over it.
Kosong.Wolo.Setunggal.Setunggal.Setunggal.Kosong.Pitu.Setunggal.Kosong.Wolo=Tempik

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#46970 - 08 Mar 07 05:54 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: Capt. Mainwaring]
naga Offline
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Registered: 18 Jan 07
Posts: 260
Loc: undisclosed location
4 Aussies are apparently still missing, including the Australian Financial Review's, Morgan Mellish.
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#46993 - 08 Mar 07 07:47 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: Capt. Mainwaring]
riccardo Offline
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Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
It was the first one Capt., serial # PK-GZC, first flown in 1992, making it 15 years old. Here's a pic of the same plane in happier times.


Attachments
1175-Garuda737.jpg


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Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

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#46995 - 08 Mar 07 08:02 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: riccardo]
dolphin Offline
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Registered: 07 Jan 07
Posts: 337
Loc: auckland, nz
Just thinking, it's like won't to stop about problems in Indonesia, so many things. I can't imagine it, how i sad now. Keep going on and on... Tsunami, earthquake, hot mud, drought, flood, accidents by planes, sheaps, trains etc.


Edited by dolphin (08 Mar 07 10:15)
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#46996 - 08 Mar 07 08:18 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: riccardo]
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
Here's a shot of it's serial # PK-GZC confirming it's the 1992 aircraft and the same as the one above.


Attachments
1176-garudawreckEDIT.jpg


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Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

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#47000 - 08 Mar 07 08:30 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: riccardo]
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
If you go to the BBC site, there are a couple of videos linked there (don't know how to link directly here). One obviously by one of the first passengers to get out, who must've turned on his mobile device... It shows well-dressed passengers jogging through the rice field, some obviously got their luggage first... crazy.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6425419.stm
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Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

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#47001 - 08 Mar 07 08:32 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: riccardo]
riccardo Offline
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Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
Oddly, the death toll went as high as 58 at one point and now is "officially" 22. Curiouser and Curiouser indeed. Still 4 or 5 Aussies listed as "missing".
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Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

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#47003 - 08 Mar 07 08:54 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: riccardo]
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
Some great photos (albeit very large, and may take some time to load) from indflyer.net, first one shows the guy taking away the blackbox and the other shows where the tire of the nose wheel obviously shredded off the rim skidded and dug into the tarmac, surely throwing up a lightshow of sparks:




Attachments
1177-blackbox.jpg

1178-nosewheel.jpg


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Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

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#47014 - 08 Mar 07 12:43 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: riccardo]
Capt. Mainwaring Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 16 Aug 06
Posts: 3225
Loc: here
"shows where the tire of the nose wheel obviously shredded off the rim skidded and dug into the tarmac"

I wonder what happened to the other nose wheel tyre ? surprising lack of rubber - could have been the tail skid plate
_________________________
I also made a vegetarian version,with tempe and tofu chunks for myself and others.Get over it.
Kosong.Wolo.Setunggal.Setunggal.Setunggal.Kosong.Pitu.Setunggal.Kosong.Wolo=Tempik

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#47015 - 08 Mar 07 13:00 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: riccardo]
Queenie Offline
Member++

Registered: 06 Feb 07
Posts: 200
Loc: Earth
Seems God forgot about Indonesia, each day i turn the tv on i see another disaster, its unbeliveble...
God dont hear Indonesian prayers anymore.
I wish you guys very good luck and be strong...
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#47020 - 08 Mar 07 15:49 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: Queenie]
Orang Kanada Offline
Member*

Registered: 30 Sep 06
Posts: 621
Loc: Jakarta
Queenie, I don't think God have something to do with human stupidity here...

And natural disasters, it's not because insurance companies call it "act of God" that it's necessaraly the case...
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#47021 - 08 Mar 07 16:53 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: Orang Kanada]
Capt. Mainwaring Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 16 Aug 06
Posts: 3225
Loc: here
A bit quick to jump on "human stupidity" just yet - though it may be high on the cards -
We could however look at Australian Fuckwits with a camera filming the performance for posterity instead of either fucking off out of the way , or trying to help .
_________________________
I also made a vegetarian version,with tempe and tofu chunks for myself and others.Get over it.
Kosong.Wolo.Setunggal.Setunggal.Setunggal.Kosong.Pitu.Setunggal.Kosong.Wolo=Tempik

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#47032 - 08 Mar 07 22:51 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: Capt. Mainwaring]
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
Quoting: Capt. Mainwaring
A bit quick to jump on "human stupidity" just yet - though it may be high on the cards -
We could however look at Australian Fuckwits with a camera filming the performance for posterity instead of either fucking off out of the way , or trying to help .


I've read that the cameraman was a local guy; a freelancer hired by the Aussie TV station for a one-off gig.
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#47054 - 09 Mar 07 00:36 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: riccardo]
naga Offline
Member++

Registered: 18 Jan 07
Posts: 260
Loc: undisclosed location
"We could however look at Australian Fuckwits with a camera filming the performance for posterity instead of either fucking off out of the way , or trying to help . "

he was an Indonesian fuckwit...
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#47067 - 09 Mar 07 01:49 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: Dilli]
chewwyUK Offline
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Registered: 14 Sep 06
Posts: 2392
Loc: Jakarta
In a slight attempt to bring it back on topic I wouldn't mind getting a few votes on this poll.
Given the number of Plane, Ship and Train deaths who do you think is to blame
Only one choice allowed


Votes accepted starting: 09 Mar 07 01:48
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll.
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Edited by Piss Salon
Edit Reason: taste

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#47068 - 09 Mar 07 01:55 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: chewwyUK]
doremi Offline
Member+++

Registered: 17 Jan 07
Posts: 488
Loc: slouch couch
Mr. C, I think the accidents can be blamed on both the company and the government.



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#47070 - 09 Mar 07 02:20 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: doremi]
chewwyUK Offline
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Registered: 14 Sep 06
Posts: 2392
Loc: Jakarta
IMHO it has to be the government who has to take charge. It is their responsibility to protect the people of Indonesia and if they really cracked down on companies running unsafe transport then things would improve.

I would be interested to know how Indonesia ranks in terms of transportation disasters ... it has to be high up in the world list. Ricc any stats to hand on that??
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Edited by Piss Salon
Edit Reason: taste

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#47089 - 09 Mar 07 05:01 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: chewwyUK]
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
Pooh Bah

Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
Loc: Centre of the Universe

Quoting: Jakarta Post
University of Indonesia criminologist Adrianus Meliala also shared his story. He expressed disappointment in Garuda's crew members, who he said ran away without helping the passengers.

"They should have given information on the process of evacuation ... not run away leaving the passengers who were still in panic," he said.



Standard Operating Procedure for indonesian flight crew.
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KuKuKaChu: dangerously too sophisticated

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#47097 - 09 Mar 07 06:34 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: Capt. Mainwaring]
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
Holy Bejeezus, I go to a meeting today and a fairly sober thread on the accident turns into a moose-counting affair.

Chewwy, I agree with NW, my guess is it's a combination of shoddy companies and corrupt govt people, particularly govt regulators.

There are lots of stats, but for air travel alone, it stands out as the probably the only country in the world, which can't claim air travel is the safest mode of transportation.

In 2006 alone, (not counting the 3 MAJOR accidents this year) there was an aircraft "incident" recorded in the country every nine to 10 days. Apart from crashes and "near" crashes, this includes whether a plane had missed the runway or was forced into a landing because of a technical fault.

More worryingly, the statistics only account for the incidents which have been logged.

Major aircraft accidents have cost the lives of almost 280 people in Indonesia in the past three years.

Overall, Indonesia’s aviation safety record is only slightly better than the average African country, according to figures from a London-based aircraft insurance adjuster, Airclaims Ltd.

On average, Indonesian airline companies damage one plane hull beyond repair for every 200,000 flights. Only slightly better than the poorest of African countries with one loss for every 150,000 flights. In the USA, for example, it is one for every 4.5 million.

Garuda alone has killed over 620 passengers over the past 50 years -- meaning nearly 13 Garuda passengers will die each year on average.

sources: Telegraph, NYTimes, AirClaims
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#47098 - 09 Mar 07 06:54 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: KuKuKaChu]
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
Quoting: KuKuKaChu

Quoting: Jakarta Post
University of Indonesia criminologist Adrianus Meliala also shared his story. He expressed disappointment in Garuda's crew members, who he said ran away without helping the passengers.

"They should have given information on the process of evacuation ... not run away leaving the passengers who were still in panic," he said.


Standard Operating Procedure for indonesian flight crew.


My ex was ground crew mgr. and stewardess for an airline in CA and I know for a fact that they are required by ICAO to go through strenuous training on everything from first-aid to crawling through smoke filled planes to rescue people.

According to Int'l regulations from ICAO, EVERY crew member on every plane in the world must be trained in, and able to, follow emergency procedures, which first and foremost means: Assisting the passengers to get out first in a situation such as this!!

One eyewitness said he saw the crew jumping out before anyone else. That, right there, is a major int'l violation, which Garuda should very rightly be sanctioned for.

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#47101 - 09 Mar 07 07:19 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: riccardo]
Queenie Offline
Member++

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nothing is safe...
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#47102 - 09 Mar 07 07:22 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: KuKuKaChu]
riccardo Offline
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Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
Flight attendants are not just there to be pretty face.

Some excerpts from FAA cabin crew regulations:

--Generally they must pass a thorough training course of up to 8 weeks to earn special certification, which must renewed every 2 years.

--Major airlines are required by international law to provide flight attendants for the safety of the traveling public.

--At least 1 hour before each flight, attendants are briefed by the captain—the pilot in command—on such things as emergency evacuation procedures, coordination of the crew, the length of the flight, expected weather conditions, and special issues.

--flight attendants instruct all passengers in the use of emergency equipment.

--Helping passengers in the event of an emergency is the most important responsibility of a flight attendant.
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#47104 - 09 Mar 07 07:26 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: riccardo]
Capt. Mainwaring Offline
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Registered: 16 Aug 06
Posts: 3225
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What people do and what they are supposed to do are two completely different things .
I recently had the pleasure of an easyjet flight to switzerland , and the fucking thing took off with one of the cabin crew poncing around with coffee and hardbakes in the rear galley -
An incident such as this only shows peoples true nature and character - I wonder what would happen in such a situation in the UK ? the bastards can't wait to get on an off the thing at the best of times , in an emergency situation you would probably get torn to bits . Can you imagine the average Indo trying to open the emergency hatches on a 737 ? no , nor can I , it was probable crew who had to do it , and I what is the betting that standing with the wind in their face , they chose not to go back and get BBQ'ed ? I know which direction I would be heading in too - like the safety demo , if you need to be shown how to put a seat belt on , your are too dense to fly - same for heading for 6 large holes leading to safety from a flame saturated cabin - do you think they should have stayed back an offered items from the Garuda inflight magazine ?

Any further info on what caused it then Riccardo ? - the others may not take this seriously and have the audacity to count mooses etc , but I certainly do .
Just looking at your first photo suggests happenings not in accordance with reports -
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I also made a vegetarian version,with tempe and tofu chunks for myself and others.Get over it.
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#47105 - 09 Mar 07 07:29 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: riccardo]
Dilli Offline
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Registered: 26 Feb 06
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I remember the Emirates Airline Cabin Crew helped passengers in many ways!

But on a serious note, they are in fact by airline rules and regulations required to control the aircraft passenger evacuation prior to their own disembarking!

Having said that, in a panic environment you cannot control how individuals will react! Some people can keep their head while others will lose the plot, even though they have more training and are theoretically able to perform these tasks automatically!

If there is a fireball ripping through the fuselage, it could be considered a good time to exit and try to do what you can for those outside.

Difficult call on that one, I do not think anyone in that situation can be criticised.

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#47106 - 09 Mar 07 07:30 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: riccardo]
Capt. Mainwaring Offline
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Registered: 16 Aug 06
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Quoting: riccardo
Flight attendants are not just there to be pretty face.

Some excerpts from FAA cabin crew regulations:

--Generally they must pass a thorough training course of up to 8 weeks to earn special certification, which must renewed every 2 years.

--Major airlines are required by international law to provide flight attendants for the safety of the traveling public.

--At least 1 hour before each flight, attendants are briefed by the captain—the pilot in command—on such things as emergency evacuation procedures, coordination of the crew, the length of the flight, expected weather conditions, and special issues.

--flight attendants instruct all passengers in the use of emergency equipment.

--Helping passengers in the event of an emergency is the most important responsibility of a flight attendant.


You haven't travelled on any of the european budget airlines then - half the fuckers live in the ground .

_________________________
I also made a vegetarian version,with tempe and tofu chunks for myself and others.Get over it.
Kosong.Wolo.Setunggal.Setunggal.Setunggal.Kosong.Pitu.Setunggal.Kosong.Wolo=Tempik

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#47111 - 09 Mar 07 08:19 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: Dilli]
riccardo Offline
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Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
Quoting: Dilli


But on a serious note, they are in fact by airline rules and regulations required to control the aircraft passenger evacuation prior to their own disembarking!

Difficult call on that one, I do not think anyone in that situation can be criticised.


To be fair one of the cabin crew did die. Perhaps it was the purser (cabin supv) and he/she ordered his mates off and did what he could before dying himself.
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#47117 - 09 Mar 07 08:51 Hot & Hard in Jogja [Re: riccardo]
riccardo Offline
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Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
I've never understood why people always talk about Garuda being safe... Here's just a sampling of accidents that we know about; the ones they weren't able to cover up.


--March 7, 2007 Garuda Boeing 737-400 crash lands in Jogja, pilot comes in "HOT AND HARD", misses run way, plane explodes. At least 23 dead, including 4 Australian govt officials and a journalist.

--Feb 21, 2007 Adam Air Boeing 737-300 plane crash lands at Juanda International Airport, Surabaya. No reported casualties.

--Feb 1, 2007 Saudi Airlines 747-300 collides with Garuda Boeing 737-500 at Soekarno-Hatta International Airport in Jakarta. No injuries.

--January 13, 2007 Gading Sari 737-200 crash lands at Kuching Airport, Malaysia.

--Jan 1, 2007 Adam Air Boeing 737-400 with 102 people on board disappears off Sulawesi.

--September 5, 2005 Mandala Airlines B737-200 crashes after take-off from Medan Sumatra into residential area, killing 145.

--November 30, 2004 Lion Air McDonnell-Douglas MD-82 overruns runway at Solo City, Central Java, killing 25, injuring 59.

--January 16, 2002 Garuda Boeing 737-300 on approach to Yogyakarta makes emergency landing, killing one.

--September 26, 1997 Garuda A300 crashed on approach to Medan airport. All 222 passengers and 12 crew killed.

--July 17, 1997 Sempati Air Fokker F-27 crashes near Bandung killing 26.

--June 13, 1996 GarudaDC-10 overruns runway after aborting takeoff from Fukuoka, Japan. Fire destroys aircraft. Three killed.

--April 4, 1987 Garuda DC9 crashes on approach to Medan, 27 killed.

--June 2, 1983 GarudaFokker F28 overruns runway at Tanjungkarang, three killed.

--March 20, 1982 Garuda F28 overruns runways at Brantl Airport, 26 killed.

--July 11 1979 Garuda] F28 crashes near Medan, 61 killed.

--September 24, 1975 Garuda F28 crashes near Palembang, 25 killed.

--September 7, 1974 Garuda F27 crash lands at Telukbetung, 31 killed.
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#47118 - 09 Mar 07 09:00 Re: Hot & Hard in Jogja [Re: riccardo]
riccardo Offline
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Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
Over the last 3 decades, Garuda averages over 14 kills per year. And that doesn't even include their complicity in the murder of Munir.
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#47119 - 09 Mar 07 09:03 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: riccardo]
Capt. Mainwaring Offline
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Registered: 16 Aug 06
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How very accomodating of them - one supposes that he/she can't be accused of leaving their post .

I like this bit "--Generally they must pass a thorough training course of up to 8 weeks to earn special certification, which must renewed every 2 years."

lots of "generally" and "up to" in that - I bet you most pilots don't have that amount of time training . " there is the pointy end that should always go first , those long flappy things stop you dropping out the sky , the big hairdryers make you go faster , and those wheels are so you can move it on the ground - push this button , pull the string and point it "





_________________________
I also made a vegetarian version,with tempe and tofu chunks for myself and others.Get over it.
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#47121 - 09 Mar 07 09:34 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: Capt. Mainwaring]
Capt. Mainwaring Offline
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Registered: 16 Aug 06
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This website has some interesting info :-

http://www.planecrashinfo.com/rates.htm

And take a look at this ! Aeroflot can't keep them in the air at all , they drop like flies:-
http://www.planecrashinfo.com/Airline/AL%20Aeroflot.htm



Edited by Capt. Mainwaring (09 Mar 07 09:58)
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I also made a vegetarian version,with tempe and tofu chunks for myself and others.Get over it.
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#47123 - 09 Mar 07 10:46 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: Capt. Mainwaring]
riccardo Offline
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Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
The first hint that it may have been sabotage:
-----------------------
A top investigator said that the plane's front wheels snapped off as it landed, and that the fire spread from punctured fuel tanks in the right wing.

"We are trying to find out why the wheel broke," Marjdono Siswo Suwarno said.
-----------------------------

This would explain the massive gash in the tarmac. No tires, no rims, just the rod or the wheel-well doors smashing into the asphalt, sending up a shower of gravel and sparks.

Also... an aviation expert said after viewing the photos, that the wing flaps were not in "landing mode", which could explain why they were not slowing down enough for the landing. Both pilots are alive and well and they have black boxes, but nobody is talking.

Garuda painted over their logo on the tail, then cut it off with a blowtorch this morning.
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#47124 - 09 Mar 07 11:00 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: riccardo]
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
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Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
Loc: Centre of the Universe
there seems to be an awful lot of revisionism going on with this story. persons unknown seem to want to blame the pilots for a "hard" landing, whereas in fact the incident started in the air, before passengers had even strapped themselves in ready for landing!!

according to one of the earlist reports from detik, an engine exploded just as the plane was making it's descent for landing. the plane landed very hard on the runway because it had probably lost power. persons unknown are trying to make out that this represented the beginning of the incident. it was not!

the plane hit the runway so hard that it literally bounced. that didn't happen because of a "hard landing" due to pilot miscalulation; that's a crash landing caused by engine failure!
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#47126 - 09 Mar 07 11:12 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: KuKuKaChu]
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
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Registered: 09 Oct 05
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correction, the plane bounced twice on the runway.
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#47127 - 09 Mar 07 13:15 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: KuKuKaChu]
Capt. Mainwaring Offline
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Registered: 16 Aug 06
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KuKu , you don't , you surely don't mean , that a lot of bullshit is being spouted yet again ?

Without a doubt the thing hit the runway very hard indeed - as you mention there are no witness marks from tortured rubber , and must have come down nose first , even though the normal trim at this point would have been nose up 4 degrees - it is absolutely forbidden for a pilot to push the nose down to gain airspeed in the event of power failure - but who knows what you do when you lose an engine at low altitude . Many reasons why they could have lost an engine , bird strike ,perhaps caused by a javanese chicken with bird flu (ayam sorry) , incorrect fuel readings from the wing tanks (737's were noted for this one) .



I wonder what the next round of speculation will be ?

_________________________
I also made a vegetarian version,with tempe and tofu chunks for myself and others.Get over it.
Kosong.Wolo.Setunggal.Setunggal.Setunggal.Kosong.Pitu.Setunggal.Kosong.Wolo=Tempik

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#47128 - 09 Mar 07 13:17 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: doremi]
Capt. Mainwaring Offline
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Registered: 16 Aug 06
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Quoting: nwgirl
Just a wild idea (just may be)...possibility of suicide killer?
knowing that there were lots of Australians inside. My imagination is running wild now.


An extremely wild idea - if it was a suicide killer , he or she wasn't very good was he ?
_________________________
I also made a vegetarian version,with tempe and tofu chunks for myself and others.Get over it.
Kosong.Wolo.Setunggal.Setunggal.Setunggal.Kosong.Pitu.Setunggal.Kosong.Wolo=Tempik

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#47129 - 09 Mar 07 13:27 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: Capt. Mainwaring]
Capt. Mainwaring Offline
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Registered: 16 Aug 06
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Loc: here
I had considered posting American Airlines stats , but you would have run out of space on the server - how is this for a load of chop-suey - and you can guarantee that there are loads unreported

[edit: and there were about 100 incidents among airlines in China, which can be viewed at the website above]


Edited by riccardo (12 Mar 07 02:10)
Edit Reason: sorta long

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#47272 - 12 Mar 07 02:03 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: Capt. Mainwaring]
riccardo Offline
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Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
Investigation Updates.

MARCH 11, ALLEGATIONS of possible mechanical failure in the crash of Garuda flight GA-200 emerged yesterday with news the plane's braking system failed one day before it crash landed.
The malfunction, while landing at Soekarno-Hatta Airport in Jakarta on Tuesday, provides a new line of inquiry into the crash that killed 21 people, including five Australians.

Pilot error has so far loomed large as the reason behind Wednesday's disaster.

THE Indonesian government announced a snap audit of Garuda's operations.

The Aussie investigators in Canberra studying the data on the black boxes should have a preliminary explanation of the cause in the next 2 or 3 days...


This is the latest that is being publicly reported:
-----------

MARCH 10, THE nosewheel of the ill-fated Garuda jet, which crashed this week, was found at the beginning of the runway, indicating that it broke off on impact and well before the plane bounced and skidded off the end of the airstrip.
One of the Indonesian investigators working on the cause of the crash said, however, that a pilot should still be able to stop the plane despite the loss of the wheel.

Joseph Tumenggung, an air safety investigator from the National Transportation Safety Committee, said the cockpit voice recorder would be vitally important to determining exactly what went wrong.

But the investigation had ruled out any suggestion of an "unlawful act" - that is, sabotage. It was also certain now that there was no fire before the plane came to a grinding halt in a rice paddy.

Mr Tumenggung said the fire which engulfed the plane was entirely from its fuel combusting. He believed this too was responsible for the fact that the plane's right wing had ended up on top of the left wing.

It seemed that the fuel line under the wing had exploded, sending the wing into the air and flipping over the plane to the other side.

Mr Tumenggung, who has examined the wreckage at the scene, said he concluded this based on the fact that there was no abrasion marks indicating it had slid.

Meanwhile, the investigation team has now moved the pilot, co-pilot and crew members out of the air force hospital where they were being held to an undisclosed location.

The chief of the military hospital, air force major and doctor Djunady said the two pilots and four crew members were not seriously hurt but the pilot was suffering depression and guilt.

However, Dr Djunady denied pilot Muhammad Marwoto Komar, 45, was suicidal.
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#47281 - 12 Mar 07 04:43 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: riccardo]
riccardo Offline
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Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
An excerpt from the Smh.com.au site:

Amid claims that pilot error caused the crash, Captain Komar and the rest of the crew have been imprisoned by police at the local air force hospital.

He was suicidal, Captain Stephanus said. "We are very afraid he could kill himself.

"The captain is very depressed; he is feeling very, very guilty."

Describing Wednesday's crash as a "freak incident", Captain Stephanus urged the public not to pre-judge the pilot, pointing towards the claims of a downdraft and the possible flap malfunction. There have also been questions asked about the condition of the 15-year-old plane.

Some Indonesian investigators are convinced Komar is at fault for coming in too fast. Australian and Indonesian police have joined the investigation, which has prompted a behind-the-scenes turf war over jurisdiction.

Air safety officials believe they should be conducting the inquiry and are angered by the description of it by the Australian Federal Police Commissioner, Mick Keelty, as a "police investigation", and revealing the pilot's claims of a downdraft forcing the accident.
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#47299 - 12 Mar 07 23:19 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: riccardo]
riccardo Offline
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Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
Excerpts from AP newswire:

-----------------------

Rajasa said after special prayers Friday for the safety of the world's most populous Muslim-majority nation that key recommendations on transport were due in the coming week. He did not give an exact date.

The Yogyakarta accident "reinforces the view that the culture of safety is almost non-existent in Indonesia," said Shukor Yusof, an aviation analyst with Standard and Poor's equity research in Singapore.

"There is a long list of disasters in the air, at sea and on land, a large number of which are the result of negligence and an attitude of ignoring safety procedures and prevention," Indonesia's Koran Tempo said in an editorial.

The string of air and maritime disasters have killed hundreds of people and shaken confidence in the transport links that bind this archipelago nation of 17,000 islands.

Major recent air and sea disasters include:

- September 5, 2005: A Mandala Airlines Boeing 737 crashed on the island of Sumatra, killing 150 people.

- Last December 29, a passenger ferry carrying some 600 people sank in the Java Sea, with more than 350 dead or missing.

- On New Year's Day, an Adam Air Boeing 737 vanished off Sulawesi with the 102 passengers and crew now presumed dead. Its black box recorders were found on the ocean floor.

- On February 22, a ferry caught fire off Jakarta. The search for survivors was called off earlier this month with 54 confirmed dead and 23 missing.

Experts blame old, badly maintained planes and ships and lax safety for the death toll.

Vice President Jusuf Kalla said that the Garuda tragedy was embarrassing for Indonesia. "Of course we are embarrassed to be a country with a high rate of accidents," he said.
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#63669 - 22 Oct 07 14:06 Re: Garuda Crash in Jogja [Re: riccardo]
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
Pooh Bah

Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
Loc: Centre of the Universe
From ABC News

Garuda crash report slams pilots, airline

By Indonesia correspondent Geoff Thompson

The final report on the crash of a Garuda plane in Indonesia earlier this year has delivered scathing criticism of the pilots and airline regulators.

Five Australians were among the 21 people killed when Garuda flight 200 crash-landed in March.

The final report on the crash has strongly condemned the pilot in charge for flying too fast for the plane's wing-flaps to be operated properly.

The pilot in charge of Garuda flight 200 did not follow company procedures and make a stabilised approach to the runway in Yogyakarta on the day of the accident.

He was also criticised for not aborting the landing and going around when alerts sounded 15 times, as well as the copilot screaming to the chief pilot to go around when the aircraft first bounced off the runway.

The copilot was also criticised for not taking control of the aircraft when it was clear the landing conditions were unsafe.

Indonesia's Director General of Civil Aviation was also criticised for not identifying deficiencies in the pilot's training.
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