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#30931 - 06 Jun 06 22:23 Re: Haditha
Patung Offline
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Registered: 11 Mar 06
Posts: 234
Loc: Indonesia
I did and plenty of others have done so since the end of WWII. Naturally power has limits, even for the biggest of hounds, which is partly what I was getting at by saying America is nuts to try to bring democracy to a benighted place like Iraq.
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#30932 - 07 Jun 06 07:14 Re: Haditha
Magpie Offline
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Registered: 29 Mar 06
Posts: 1306
Loc: The Toon
Quote:
Originally posted by Chocolatea:

Would this war be going on like generations do you think? or would it be abandoned it at the end? because i honestly think that winning the war would probably lead to a genocide of a particular tribe..
My point of view is this: Firstly, Iraq has been at war (with America, with Iran, despot dictated war) for many many years now, probably a lot longer than I have been alive, so therefore, I believe there is a lot to do before it is a peaceful nation (and no I havent a clue how to sort it out). And as far as genocide of a particular tribe......the people of Iraq know all about this....Genocide has been alledgedly committed for along time, against the Kurds. People die in war, the question is...who decides who dies?
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#30933 - 07 Jun 06 07:26 Re: Haditha
Polar Bear Offline
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Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
I agree that the US and other Western countries should not interfere in the internal affairs of other countries. I fully support this concept.

HOWEVER, There are two key conditions:

1) The West should not have to suffer, in ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM, from the actions or inactions in any other country. So we should throw out all of the refugees from every war and every crisis. Send back the Tiananmen Square refugees. Ship back all Afghan refugees. Deport all Iraqis, all Iranians, all Lebanese.

The people MUST learn to fix their own fucking problems or live with them. Cos I don’t think it is fair that good US boys should die trying to solve Iraq’s problems, and the populations need to be stopped from running away to hide behind the protection of those very same US boys.

2) The countries in question need to keep their disputes within their own borders. I am sick of every pisspot terrorist bringing his/her problems onto my doorstep. Iranian embassy siege. Layla Khaled hijacking British Airways flights in 1970. 911. Munich. The list goes on for ever.

Funny how they have no qualms about bringing their problems to someone else’s country, but object when the USA does the same to them!!!!

So how do you persuade them? NUCLEAR FUCKING WEAPONS. Simply fry the cities in question if they cause inconvenience to the West. It doesn’t have ot be a massive 500 Mt warhead, a small tactical nuke would be enough to shut them up (for about 40,000 years). This threat ended WW2, and kept the Russian Bear at bay for 50 years.

Instead of invading Afghanistan to find Bin Laden, George W should have Nuked a few cities. Instead of invading Iraq, he should have tipped a bucket of instant sunshine on Bagdad.

This, gentlemen, is the only language that fanatics understand.

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#30934 - 07 Jun 06 07:30 Re: Haditha
Magpie Offline
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Registered: 29 Mar 06
Posts: 1306
Loc: The Toon
PB, without a hint of irony....who (in your opinion) is profitting from this particular war? (I am trying to find out who you think is recieving the largest amount of cash from providing weapons, transport etc).

I had always assumed that American companies would recieve the lion share, but your in the Army, so you probably have a better idea.
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#30935 - 07 Jun 06 07:56 Re: Haditha
Polar Bear Offline
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Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Interesting point.

Army don’t actually like fighting wars. They like a bit of peacekeeping, and touch of hearts and minds, with a dollop of disaster relief thrown in. Looks good in the papers, helps recruiting and gives Generals a warm feeling.

War means body bags, it means reduced recruiting (how many sane people would join the US army right now?), it means blown budgets, and it means using up resources. Airframe and engine hours on c130s, etc

Who profits? Well most weapons manufacturers are in the high tech areas, and this is a low tech war, despite US attempts to move it onto a high tech field. No agent orange here, no B52 arclight strikes. This is grunts on patrol, AR15 in hand. I guess ammunition manufacturers and some of the other kit suppliers (desert pattern uniform etc are making dollars, but that stuff comes from China. The profits on it are going to be pretty small, and are not justified by a war.

I guess the war was about oil. We need it to keep our economies going, and it is running out. Third world countries like China are now fist world consumers, and buying every barrel they can find.

Now the US is stuck. No exist strategy (that works). If they pull out, there will be a bloodbath. In they stay, there will be a bloodbath.

Educating the people is a lost concept, cos these are savages. You may as well try to teach lions to eat grass. You cage lions, and let them fight.

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#30936 - 07 Jun 06 08:29 Re: Haditha
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
Pooh Bah

Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10791
Loc: Centre of the Universe
PB, i've forwarded your message to george and kofi to see if we can't get this thing sorted out.
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#30937 - 07 Jun 06 09:56 Re: Haditha
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Hitler, god bless his cotton socks, would have sorted this out within a week.

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#30938 - 07 Jun 06 09:59 Re: Haditha
Patung Offline
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Registered: 11 Mar 06
Posts: 234
Loc: Indonesia
Quote:
Originally posted by The One and Only Polar Bear:


War means.... reduced recruiting (how many sane people would join the US army right now?), it means blown budgets, and it means using up resources. Airframe and engine hours on c130s, etc
I get the budgets and resources bit but do you think it was always like that, with recruiting problems I mean, or is that a modern thing?
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#30939 - 07 Jun 06 10:06 Re: Haditha
Macan Tutul Offline
Pujangga Muda

Registered: 02 Dec 05
Posts: 1502
Loc: Jungle and cage ;)
Quote:
Originally posted by The One and Only Polar Bear:

I guess the war was about oil. We need it to keep our economies going, and it is running out. Third world countries like China are now fist world consumers, and buying every barrel they can find.

Now the US is stuck. No exist strategy (that works). If they pull out, there will be a bloodbath. In they stay, there will be a bloodbath.

Educating the people is a lost concept, cos these are savages. You may as well try to teach lions to eat grass. You cage lions, and let them fight.
This what Mr. Bush said on October 7, 2002, in Cincinnati :
" The evidence indicates that Iraq is reconstituting its nuclear weapons program. Iraq has attempted to purchase high-strength alumunium tubes and other equipment needed for gas centrifuges, which are used to enrich uranium for nuclear weapons."

The fact is the story leaked to and breathlessy reported by Judith Miller in the New York Times, has turned out to be complete baloney. Department of Energy officilas who monitor nuclear plants, say the tubes could not be used for enriching uranium. One intelligence analyst who has part of the tubes investigations, angrily told The New Republic...."You had senior American officilas like Condoleeza Rice saying the only use of this aluminum really is uranium centrifuges. She said that on TV, and that's just a lie.
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#30940 - 07 Jun 06 10:33 Re: Haditha
Magpie Offline
Member**

Registered: 29 Mar 06
Posts: 1306
Loc: The Toon
Quote:
Originally posted by The One and Only Polar Bear:
Hitler, god bless his cotton socks, would have sorted this out within a week.
Before his alzheimers kicked in...due to the fact that he had been injecting high grade white powder in to his veins for god knows how many years. Oh to have a doctor/dicttator relationship! wink
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#30941 - 07 Jun 06 10:42 Re: Haditha
Magpie Offline
Member**

Registered: 29 Mar 06
Posts: 1306
Loc: The Toon
Or was it Parkinson's???? Can't remember, watched a programme all about it about a year ago (the decline of Hitler and the reasons why) It stated at one point that the reason the Allied Troops won 1 battle that was significant to the whole outcome of the war (PB, I am sure you know this one) was because Hitler was too sick and took a long time to respond (due to Alzheimers or Parkinson's or whatever he was suffering from). If hehadnt been sick, maybe I would have blonde hair and blue eyes.......doh! I already do!
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#30942 - 07 Jun 06 10:49 Re: Haditha
Macan Tutul Offline
Pujangga Muda

Registered: 02 Dec 05
Posts: 1502
Loc: Jungle and cage ;)
Well before he leave with Eva, he promised me to give the "secret documents" on his Eagles Nest Tower. wink
_________________________
" Don't be shy with yourself, you have lots of talent without you notice....that's human, just be who you are."

(Memoirs of 3/3/2007)

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#30943 - 07 Jun 06 11:33 Re: Haditha
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
I read the newspaper over lunch. Fifty Iraqis were taken at gunpoint at a major Bus Station in Bagdad. The terrorists just blocked off the streets, rounded up everyone, tea sellers, people on the bus, drivers, passers by. The beat them up, hooded them and loaded them onto trucks and took them away. This happens every few days in Bagdad, and the hostages are never seen again.

You CANNOT negotiate with these people. You CANNOT reason with them, and you CANNOT treat them like humans. You MUST be even harder than they are – something the West finds distasteful.

How would Hitler have resolved it?

He would have bought Kurds down from the North, armed them, and promised them autonomy if they resolve the problems in the South. (The Ukrainian solution).

He would have built HUGE concentration camps, and shut people in them. Probably by just walling off huge parts of each city. The Warsaw Ghetto solution.

He would have turned the SS and Gestapo loose, with complete autonomy, and a mandate to end the killing. Pliers and blowtorches would have succeeded where cross examination fails. Local troublemakers would be dragged around the city behind vehicles until every scrap of flesh was ground off, then tied to a post and allowed to die.

For every roadside bomb he would completely obliterate entire towns and villages. The mathematical conclusion would be obvious even to dumb terrorists that if a couple of thousand of the population died for each soldiers death, they are going to run out of Iraqis before Hitler runs out of soldiers.

This WOULD work. I think Hitler would have things under control within a week. Trouble is the bleeding heart liberals would prefer to see the current chaos continue………

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#30944 - 07 Jun 06 11:37 Re: Haditha
hanabi Offline
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Registered: 11 Mar 06
Posts: 436
Loc: Here and there...
President Bush and Colin Powell are sitting in a bar. A guy walks in and asks the barman, "Isn't that Bush and Powell sitting over there?" The barman says, "Yep, that's them." So the guy walks over and says, "Wow, this is a real honor. What are you guys doing in here?" Bush says, "We're planning WW III." And the guy says, "Really? What's going to happen?" Bush says, "Well, we're going to kill 140 million Iraqis and one blonde with big breasts. The guy exclaimed, "A blonde with big breasts? Why kill a blonde with big breasts? Bush turns to Powell, punches him on the shoulder and says, "See, smartass? I told you no one would worry about 140 million Iraqis!"
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#30945 - 07 Jun 06 12:24 Re: Haditha
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
Pooh Bah

Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10791
Loc: Centre of the Universe
Quote:
Originally posted by hanabi:
President Bush and Colin Powell are sitting in a bar. A guy walks in and asks the barman, "Isn't that Bush and Powell sitting over there?" The barman says, "Yep, that's them." So the guy walks over and says, "Wow, this is a real honor. What are you guys doing in here?" Bush says, "We're planning WW III." And the guy says, "Really? What's going to happen?" Bush says, "Well, we're going to kill 140 million Iraqis and one blonde with big breasts. The guy exclaimed, "A blonde with big breasts? Why kill a blonde with big breasts? Bush turns to Powell, punches him on the shoulder and says, "See, smartass? I told you no one would worry about 140 million Iraqis!"
well, it's a nice story, except that the total population of Iraq is only 27 million, not 140 million! smile

"what?", you say, "we're wasting all this blood and money for a measley 27 million arabs?! sheesh! just nuke the lot of them; hardly no-one will notice ..."

wink
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#30946 - 07 Jun 06 12:56 Re: Haditha
hanabi Offline
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Registered: 11 Mar 06
Posts: 436
Loc: Here and there...
Have you ever counted the Iraqi sheeps?? It should be 113 million... Ask Dilli! laugh
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Crossing the bridge of reason... "Let the lover be disgraceful, crazy, absentminded. Someone sober will worry about things going badly. Let the lover be."

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#30947 - 07 Jun 06 13:04 Re: Haditha
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
Pooh Bah

Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10791
Loc: Centre of the Universe
yes, i forgot the sheep; they're people too, i guess. of course, dilli has a personal acquantaince with all the ruminents of arabia, so he should know more than anyone.
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#30948 - 07 Jun 06 13:13 Re: Haditha
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Two sheep herders are flying the herd to a new farm. Suddenly, the engine fails and the plane begins to fall quickly to the ground. SH1: Quick! Grab a parachute and jump! SH2: What about the sheep?!? SH1: Fuck the sheep!!!! SH2: (pause) Do you think we have time?

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#30949 - 07 Jun 06 13:15 Re: Haditha
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
So the cowboy goes out to seek his fortune on the frontier of the old West. He finally settles on a ranching town near the very edge of civilization. So near, in fact, that there aren't any women to be found for love nor money. Well, he's young and full of hormones, and after a month, he starts getting randy, so he goes to the saloon to ask around. After a couple of sort of nervous, whispered conversations, it comes out that you use the sheep. Well, our hero isn't real happy about this, but he's really desperate. He buys a bottle to nerve himself up. He goes and finds the nearest flock, and decides that if he's going to do this at all, he's going to do it right. He spends most of the afternoon picking out the prettiest sheep in the flock. He shampoos her wool and ties ribbons around her neck. Puts a little bell on her collar. He's also getting pretty drunk. By evening, he's done cleaning up the sheep, and not thinking real clearly. He's so proud of the way the sheep looks, he decides to take her in to town and show her off at the saloon. He walks in with the sheep, and the room goes quiet. Everybody's staring at the guy. And not just staring, but kinda recoiling in shock and horror. He's ashamed, but he's drunk enough; he slurs out, "Whassamada, I thought ever'body went out to the sheep?" Finally, one old timer pipes up. "Yeah, boy, but you got the _sherrif's_ girl."

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#30950 - 07 Jun 06 13:23 Re: Haditha
Macan Tutul Offline
Pujangga Muda

Registered: 02 Dec 05
Posts: 1502
Loc: Jungle and cage ;)
Quote:
Originally posted by The One and Only Polar Bear:
I read the newspaper over lunch. Fifty Iraqis were taken at gunpoint at a major Bus Station in Bagdad. The terrorists just blocked off the streets, rounded up everyone, tea sellers, people on the bus, drivers, passers by. The beat them up, hooded them and loaded them onto trucks and took them away. This happens every few days in Bagdad, and the hostages are never seen again.

You CANNOT negotiate with these people. You CANNOT reason with them, and you CANNOT treat them like humans. You MUST be even harder than they are – something the West finds distasteful.

How would Hitler have resolved it?

He would have bought Kurds down from the North, armed them, and promised them autonomy if they resolve the problems in the South. (The Ukrainian solution).

He would have built HUGE concentration camps, and shut people in them. Probably by just walling off huge parts of each city. The Warsaw Ghetto solution.

He would have turned the SS and Gestapo loose, with complete autonomy, and a mandate to end the killing. Pliers and blowtorches would have succeeded where cross examination fails. Local troublemakers would be dragged around the city behind vehicles until every scrap of flesh was ground off, then tied to a post and allowed to die.

For every roadside bomb he would completely obliterate entire towns and villages. The mathematical conclusion would be obvious even to dumb terrorists that if a couple of thousand of the population died for each soldiers death, they are going to run out of Iraqis before Hitler runs out of soldiers.

This WOULD work. I think Hitler would have things under control within a week. Trouble is the bleeding heart liberals would prefer to see the current chaos continue………
Don't forget to tell him to order champagne before they being shots.......
_________________________
" Don't be shy with yourself, you have lots of talent without you notice....that's human, just be who you are."

(Memoirs of 3/3/2007)

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#30951 - 07 Jun 06 13:30 Re: Haditha
Jokie Jokie Girl Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 07 Nov 05
Posts: 2552
Loc: Central Jakarta
I'm speacless here...helpppppppppppppppppp
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#30952 - 07 Jun 06 15:17 Re: Haditha
Patung Offline
Member++

Registered: 11 Mar 06
Posts: 234
Loc: Indonesia
Don't need Hitler at all, just the Americans of the 19th century. Abraham Lincoln:

Quote:
Fondly do we hope, fervently do we pray, that this mighty scourge of war may speedily pass away. Yet, if God wills that it continue until all the wealth piled by the bondsman's two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said three thousand years ago, so still it must be said "the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether".
The Iraqis would have been sorted in no time with that attitude, jihad, Christian, Protestant style.
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#30953 - 07 Jun 06 15:47 Re: Haditha
Macan Tutul Offline
Pujangga Muda

Registered: 02 Dec 05
Posts: 1502
Loc: Jungle and cage ;)
Does anyone know the real information about hijacker of 9/11??? Well I read this on one article…that the 9/11 was the part from the circle of radical Islam based on widely things which begun on the early of the 20th century. Being sharply description by unclear rumors which spread widely in Islam world and Arab, Europe and America that attacking of WTC doing by Mossad and 4000 people of Jewish which work in WTC not going to work on the 11th September because there was a “secret” message from the Israel security service.

And the second was we may not know all the hijackers really were.

Well I don’t mean anything just curious….that’s all
_________________________
" Don't be shy with yourself, you have lots of talent without you notice....that's human, just be who you are."

(Memoirs of 3/3/2007)

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#30954 - 12 Jun 06 02:02 Re: Haditha
juminten Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 08 Dec 05
Posts: 3870
Loc: disana-disini
The real info about the hijacker of 9/11?
those are evil bastards! the fucking arabs and MUSLIMS!...oh yeah they love to kill especially non muslims for their allah..! thats the main reason!
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#30955 - 15 Jun 06 13:50 Re: Haditha
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Quote:
Originally posted by Macan Tutul:
[QUOTE]]Don't forget to tell him to order champagne before they being shots.......
Who drinks the Champaign?

Hitler, to celebrate a victory?

The firing squad, to give them courage to pull the trigger?

The accused, to give them courage to face the bullet?

If you are going to die, and surely as the sun rises, we will all face death one day, better to do it with a glass in your hand and Champaign in your belly.

At least you die for a cause.

We worry about a few thousand dying in Iraq. A few thousand die each week in Africa, with empty bellies swollen and distended. No one protests. No one hangs themselves. No eyebrows are raised at the UN.

No one gives a shit. What a horrible, hypercritical world we have made.

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