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#30730 - 25 May 06 18:08 CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
Pooh Bah

Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
Loc: Centre of the Universe
From CNN http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/05/25/timor.troops/index.html

Australia rushes troops to Timor
Reports of more gunfire as people flee capital


Thursday, May 25, 2006 Posted: 0906 GMT (1706 HKT)

SYDNEY, Australia (CNN) -- Australian troops have arrived in the capital of East Timor, after weeks of clashes between security forces and former soldiers in this troubled nation have left people on edge.

The 130 commandos arrived in Dili on Thursday on Blackhawk helicopters and Hercules aircraft to secure the airport ahead of the arrival of 1,300 Australian soldiers.

The commandos were the first international forces to enter East Timor after 600 disgruntled soldiers began clashing with security forces. Dozens of foreigners have fled since the unrest began.

On Thursday, fierce gun battles raged in the capital, according to news agencies, while homes and businesses were torched.

The Australian frigate HMAS Adelaide was now in Dili harbor ready to assist, Prime Minister John Howard said.

New Zealand has committed 30 soldiers, and Portugal will send a mobile police force of about 120, though this deployment is expected to take several weeks. Malaysia too said troops were on the way.

Announcing the deployment, Australian Prime Minister John Howard said they would be on a "dangerous mission" in a dangerous situation.

At least six people have died in recent weeks, according to news agencies.

An East Timor army captain became the latest victim, when he was killed in the capital Dili Thursday in a fresh exchange of gunfire between the two groups.

Australian Foreign Minister Alexander Downer told CNN Thursday that troops would be going into a "difficult and dangerous" environment, but it was right for Australia to respond to East Timor's request.

East Timor sought help from Australia, New Zealand, Portugal and Malaysia on Wednesday, when it became clear the security situation was worsening.

Downer said that in a practical sense, only Australia had the capability to get substantial numbers of troops into East Timor quickly.

The United Nations said it was setting up a refugee camp near its East Timor headquarters in Dili to accommodate people fleeing from the fighting.

Embassies, including those of Australia and the United States, are evacuating non-essential personnel.
Heavily armed

Journalist David O'Shea, who is in East Timor, told CNN Thursday it was clear that the disgruntled soldiers who had taken to the hills in recent weeks were heavily armed.

He said international troops would face a different situation to 1999, when an Australian-led force was welcomed by East Timorese suffering at the hands of rampaging pro-Indonesia militia groups, following the August 1999 vote for independence from Indonesia.

"This time the battle lines are unclear," O'Shea said, with the allegiance of the police and military tending to fracture along ethnic lines.

The situation in East Timor has been deteriorating since 595 of the army's total strength of 1,400 soldiers were dismissed in March. They had gone on strike over complaints of discrimination and poor working conditions.

They maintain that because they are of the Loromonu clan from the west of the country, they are denied promotion by officers drawn from the eastern clan, Lorosae, which is centered on the towns of Baucau and Lospalos. The western half of the island of Timor remains part of Indonesia.

A government commission was established this month to investigate the soldiers' allegations.

But East Timor's President Xanana Gusmao has also vowed that security forces will hunt down those responsible for the fighting, including Major Alfredo Alves Reinado, the Australian-trained officer who led the military police until his decision on May 4 to decamp to the hills outside Dili in support of the sacked soldiers.

Downer told CNN that the role of the international troops would be to stabilize the situation and provide an environment in which the East Timor government could get on with talking to the disgruntled soldiers.
People fleeing

O'Shea told CNN that he hoped the arrival of troops would "restore sense" in East Timor, which is the world's newest nation and one of the poorest.

Much of its economy is based on agriculture, while potential income from services such as tourism has been hit by the poor security situation.

The country has huge offshore reserves of oil and gas, including a large area shared with Australia, but has only just begun to exploit them. Development has been delayed by a dispute over the siting of a gas processing plant.

The former Portuguese colony of East Timor was invaded and annexed by Indonesia in 1975. Over the ensuing 24 years of Indonesian occupation, as many as 200,000 people may have died, according to human rights groups. During that time, Gusmao led a guerrilla campaign by his Fretilin force against the Indonesian army.

After the 1999 independence vote, a U.N. administration oversaw the country's transition to full independence in 2002.

The U.N. mission of 130 administrators, police and military advisers was due to finish in East Timor on May 20, but was extended for a month after the April riots.
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#30731 - 25 May 06 18:10 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
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so Major Sausage, are there plans to deploy your good self in E. Timor this time around?

the situation looks a good deal more dangerous than 1999. what's more, many of the rebel soldiers have had the benefit of some australian military training ... that will certainly come back to bite australia on the bum!
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#30732 - 25 May 06 18:30 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
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Kompas is describing Dili at this moment as a "killing field". obviously, the ultra-nationalists in that newspaper are taking liberties with such a comparison, no doubt as a warning to other indonesian regions that are thinking about breaking away from the unitary republic.
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#30733 - 25 May 06 21:05 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Dilli Offline
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Registered: 26 Feb 06
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I hate having a town named after me!
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#30734 - 25 May 06 21:13 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
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Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dilligaf:
I hate having a town named after me!
that did occur to me when i was writng my messages ...

i'm awaiting comment from the Major regarding the latest situation, but it seems he's AWOL. maybe he's been deployed ... in some capacity or another.
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#30735 - 26 May 06 06:56 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Polar Bear Offline
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Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
The word is not good. You are exactly right, instead of being a rabble armed with sticks and stones and the odd knife, we now face a trained army with excellent weapons that we have supplied. When I did my Steyr conversion course (from the old SLR rifle) I thought to myself – “shit this is a good bit of kit, I hope we never go up against anyone armed with the same weapon…..”

We may now do that. Hopefully the ex students will remember the Australians fondly, and will decline to engage.

I cannot comment upon operational matters, but I can say I took a lot of things out of my garage late lat night, checked them over and put them by the front door.

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#30736 - 26 May 06 07:21 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Polar Bear Offline
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Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
The Australian Defence Force is going through a bit of bad press just lately. A lot of poor management decisions, bad purchase etc.

But there is a current misconception in the population that although the government and civilian administration are crap, are troops are invincible. Sons of the ANZACS they cheer.

Sadly we may well soon discover that although our troops are very good, they are not invincible. No army ever is. The Australian army is better than the worst parts of TNI and USA Army, and as good as the best parts. But not better. If they go up against a hardened, determined enemy, then they will take casualties.

Tragically, we will soon discover that even good soldiers get killed in combat.

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#30737 - 26 May 06 14:18 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Ena Offline
Member*

Registered: 26 Nov 05
Posts: 765
Loc: Sydney
well I will be watching trial by fire on the abc
( david wenham -YUM)
my husband refuses to watch it.he reckons timor timur should still be indonesian.he will be at an arisan instead-hehe obral obral with all the ibu ibu LOL.
apparantly we have also denied asylum to those papuans. Dear husband says because of the us visit by johnny to georgie and how many mines are us/aus interests there.
Timor looks so beautiful-did anyone ever read that book by Timothy Mo about all of that Timor/Indo stuff-1991 published. ( thinly disguised etc)
" The Redundancy of Courage"
He's a really good writer by the way-I really recommend a book by him called Sour Sweet-and his others too.
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#30738 - 26 May 06 14:23 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Magpie Offline
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Registered: 29 Mar 06
Posts: 1306
Loc: The Toon
Quote:
Originally posted by Ena:
well I will be watching trial by fire on the abc
( david wenham -YUM)
my husband refuses to watch it.he reckons timor timur should still be indonesian.he will be at an arisan instead-hehe obral obral with all the ibu ibu LOL.
apparantly we have also denied asylum to those papuans. Dear husband says because of the us visit by johnny to georgie and how many mines are us/aus interests there.
Timor looks so beautiful-did anyone ever read that book by Timothy Mo about all of that Timor/Indo stuff-1991 published. ( thinly disguised etc)
" The Redundancy of Courage"
He's a really good writer by the way-I really recommend a book by him called Sour Sweet-and his others too.
I think I have read "Sour Sweet", its about the chinese husband and wife setting up a chinese takeway, set around the 60's?? read it a quite few years ago. Very good story...it was my first taste of asia in general.
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#30739 - 26 May 06 14:32 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Ena Offline
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Registered: 26 Nov 05
Posts: 765
Loc: Sydney
yup thats the one-I love that book. Very funny/sad book I thought .
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#30740 - 28 May 06 16:42 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Polar Bear Offline
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Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Insanity prevails in Timor again, and this time the world cannot blame the TNI for inspiring the insurgents.

One quarter of the population is homeless, 50,000 Dili residents live in makeshift camps, looting is endemic, cars burn in the streets, people are being hacked to death on the streets.

And once again Australian soldiers are out there trying to keep some peace.

This time Indonesia CANNOT be blamed. The truth is the Timor has slipped back to tribal warfare and mob rule. Once again my taxes are being used to prop up this lunatic shithole, once again I am in grave danger of being sent somewhere unpleasant.

Indonesians can now stick a finger in the air to the world and say “Told you so”

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#30741 - 28 May 06 18:39 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
D'ruby Offline
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Registered: 13 Feb 06
Posts: 2177
Loc: My
Just saw it in CNN, it's dangerous situation, hope you won't go there PB.
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#30742 - 28 May 06 19:44 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Polar Bear Offline
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Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Me too frown

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#30743 - 29 May 06 17:00 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
hanabi Offline
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Registered: 11 Mar 06
Posts: 436
Loc: Here and there...
I don't really understand the issue of East Timor, but I remember when my brother said that East Timor would have conflicts and civil war soon after separating from Indonesia since the East Timorese in general still live in tribes and have strong primordial ties frown
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#30744 - 31 May 06 04:59 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Magpie Offline
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Registered: 29 Mar 06
Posts: 1306
Loc: The Toon
Emergency rule for E Timor leader

East Timor's President Xanana Gusmao is taking control of the country's national security and defence in a bid to defuse mounting unrest.
Emergency powers will give Mr Gusmao control of the army and police, split by internal disputes and gang violence.

Mr Gusmao, a highly respected former guerrilla leader, also assumed sole charge of coordination with the Australian-led peacekeeping force.

His move comes after fresh violence and looting hit the capital, Dili.

Mr Gusmao said the decision to impose emergency rule, which would last 30 days, had been taken in "close collaboration" with Prime Minister Mari Alkatiri.

Mr Alkatiri has been blamed by other members of the government for failing to stop the violence, which was triggered by the government's sacking of hundreds of troops after they went on strike.

Mr Gusmao said the move is to "prevent violence and avoid further fatalities", as well as for the "rapid reestablishment of public order".

The intervention of the president, who normally plays a largely symbolic role, will be widely welcomed, the BBC's Jonathan Head says.

But he alone cannot fix the collapse of East Timor's system of government.

Mr Alkatiri is deeply unpopular but refuses to resign and there are few obvious successors to him, our correspondent says.

TENSIONS MOUNT

Feb: More than 400 troops strike over pay and conditions
March: Government sacks nearly 600 of 1,400-man army
April: Rioting by sacked troops leaves five people dead
May: Violence intensifies; government appeals for foreign assistance

There are reports that the defence and interior ministers have been sacked, but it is not clear yet whether they have accepted this.

Mr Gusmao's move follows days of mounting tension and violence.

At least 20 people are reported to have been killed and tens of thousands have fled their homes.

More violence on Tuesday left several shops - once part of a vibrant commercial district - reduced to burnt out shells. Many people, including children, were simply helping themselves to supplies.

In some houses anything of value has been stripped away or destroyed. Many residents have taken shelter at makeshift camps where basic necessities are running out.

Thousands of desperate people descended on warehouses where rice was being handed out, and waited for hours in the baking sun.

'Gutless thugs'

The immediate cause of the violence was the sacking of 600 striking soldiers in March. The soldiers, who were mainly from the west of the country, complained of discrimination against them by leaders from the east.


The peacekeepers say they are reining in the gangs in Dili

But there are also signs that some of the violence is politically motivated.

Attorney-General Longuinhos Monteiro told the BBC his offices had been looted on several occasions and up to 15% of the criminal archive stolen.

Some of the stolen files relate to Indonesia's bloody withdrawal from East Timor following a 1999 referendum.

Pro-Indonesian militias were accused of orchestrating the violence, which left more than 1,000 people dead.

Australian Brigadier Michael Slater says his 1,300 peacekeeping troops are gaining an upper hand against the gangs of "gutless thugs" rampaging in Dili.

"We've been taking the weapons off them and they are losing their freedom of action because we have so many soldiers out there providing the security among the population," he told the Australian media.

"It's not fixed, but we're getting there," he added.

He went on to say that although there were "some very large groups of internally displaced people", but "there is no humanitarian crisis here".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/5029794.stm
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#30745 - 01 Jun 06 04:54 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Magpie Offline
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Registered: 29 Mar 06
Posts: 1306
Loc: The Toon
E Timor PM refuses to step down

East Timor's PM Mari Alkatiri has told the BBC he will not resign, despite being blamed for not ending the unrest which has paralysed the capital Dili.
Mr Alkatiri also disputed whether President Xanana Gusmao, who announced emergency rule on Tuesday, was now in sole charge of the country's security.

Dili was calmer on Wednesday, though some arson and fighting continued.

Fifteen major aid donors to East Timor, including foreign governments, urged rival groups to stop their feuding.

Mr Alkatiri has been blamed by other members of the government for failing to stop the violence, which was triggered by his decision to sack of hundreds of troops after they went on strike.

TENSIONS MOUNT

Feb: More than 400 troops strike over pay and conditions
March: Government sacks nearly 600 of 1,400-man army
April: Rioting by sacked troops leaves five people dead
May: Violence intensifies, with battles between gangs from east and west of the country
24 May: Government asks foreign troops to take control


But the prime minister said any political change would have to wait for parliamentary elections in 2007.

"Wait until the election and people will vote," he told the BBC. "If you are talking on the name of the people, bring the people to vote"

Political dispute

On Tuesday, Mr Gusmao said the decision to impose emergency rule - which would last 30 days - had been taken in "close collaboration" with Mr Alkatiri.

Emergency powers will give Mr Gusmao control of the army and police, split by internal disputes and gang violence.

But the prime minister disputed whether Mr Gusmao was now in control of the security forces.

"You are wrong, completely wrong, he [Mr Gusmao] is not taking control," he told Australian Broadcasting Corporation radio.

"The defence and security is still part of the government, and I am the head of the government," he said, blaming the confusion on a misinterpretation of Gusmao's statement from Portuguese into English.

The intervention of the president, who normally plays a largely symbolic role, will be widely welcomed, says the BBC's Jonathan Head, who is in the capital Dili.

But he alone cannot fix the loss of confidence in East Timor's government.

At least 20 people are reported to have been killed and tens of thousands have fled their homes since the violence began.

On Wednesday, as news of Mr Gusmao's announcement spread, most of Dili was reported to be much calmer than in recent days. But there were some reports of gunfire and of gangs torching buildings, as well as street fights between rivals.

The immediate cause of the unrest was the sacking of 600 striking soldiers in March. The soldiers, who were mainly from the west of the country, complained of discrimination against them by leaders from the east.


A number of houses in Dili have been ransacked and set on fire

But there are also signs that some of the violence is politically motivated.

Attorney-General Longuinhos Monteiro told the BBC on Tuesday that his offices had been looted on several occasions and up to 15% of the criminal archive stolen.

Some of the stolen files relate to Indonesia's bloody withdrawal from East Timor following a 1999 referendum.

Pro-Indonesian militias were accused of orchestrating the violence, which left more than 1,000 people dead.

The head of the Australian military, Angus Houston, says he believes his country's peacekeepers will be in East Timor for six months.

Air Chief Marshal Houston told a Senate committee that he hoped to scale down the operation as order returned.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/5032696.stm
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#30746 - 02 Jun 06 04:13 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Magpie Offline
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Registered: 29 Mar 06
Posts: 1306
Loc: The Toon
E Timor president plea for unity

East Timor President Xanana Gusmao has pleaded with the country's police and army to work together following widespread unrest in the country.
The dismissal in March of 600 army troops sparked off violence after they launched a rebellion.

Clashes between the rebel troops and police escalated last week, causing thousands to flee the capital, Dili.

On Thursday, the rebel troop leader called for the resignation of the PM whom the rebels blame for the sackings.

President Gusmao assumed direct control on Tuesday of the army and police, which are also split by internal disputes.

Ten police officers, whom the military suspected of aiding the rebels, were shot dead by troops last week.

On Thursday, Interior Minister Rogerio Lobato, who had been asked by the government to step down, formally announced his resignation, the Associated Press news agency reported.

"I bear moral and political responsibility for this incident," he said of the killings.

Unity

Visiting police officers at their headquarters, President Gusmao said the two forces needed to work together and with international peacekeepers to end the violence.

"I am proud of you because in difficult times like these you are still ready to wear your uniforms to serve this lovely nation," he told them.

"Forgive each other, forget the past, let us build the nation from ashes once again," he said.

The rebel leader, Major Alfredo Reinado, has criticised Mr Gusmao, saying he had made a mistake by not sacking the Prime Minister, Mari Alkatiri.

He said the unrest would not stop until the prime minister stepped down.

"Alkatiri has to resign and go to court for all the crimes he ordered," Mr Reinado told AP.

Mr Alkatiri has also been blamed for the growing rivalry between people from the west and east of the country.

The soldiers, whose dismissal was ordered by Mr Alkatiri, were mainly from the west of the country, and had complained of discrimination against them by leaders from the east.

Although Dili was relatively calm on Wednesday, sporadic violence on Thursday led to the death of at least one person.

At least 20 people are reported to have been killed and tens of thousands have fled their homes since the violence began.

Some 2,000 foreign peacekeepers are in the country attempting to restore order.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/5036070.stm
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#30747 - 02 Jun 06 12:39 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Polar Bear Offline
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Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Interesting piece in today’s Sydney Morning Herald about East Timor. It seem a lot of people have just woken up to the fact the ET getting independence may not have been such a good idea. They are now saying that some form of semi autonomy would have been a better solution., Duuuuuuh!!!!!!

I cause a lot of consternation on a XXXXXXX course a few years ago, when I argued that Australia’s push to grant ET independence was driven by two factors (Oil Assets and the Catholic church) and that it would lead to major problems for Australia in the future. I was shouted down by senior Intelligence Officers, most of whom had never been to Indonesia before they got off a plane at Dili, and suddenly thought they were the experts.

Time to shout I told you so…… Sorry XXXXXX, you were wrong about the Oil, you were wrong about the church, and you were wrong about the future!!!!!

Within 2 years of independence Australia was dictating terms over the Timor Sea oil reserves, and being far more heavy handed than it would have been had Indonesia been in charge. The East Timorese lost, and Australia grabbed a large slice of oil. True the world objected, and Australia handed back a large slice, but it still did far better than it would have done if Jakarta had been on the other side of the table, and it was a good try anyway.

The Catholic Church, having put pressure on the Australian government to help release its members from Muslim servitude, now finds itself deep in a crisis. In any case the Catholic Church was introduced by Portuguese colonialists, and in reality has no place in the distinctly Asian island.

Have the lives of the average Timorese improved since 1999? Nope. Is the country better off? Nope. It is steadily rattling towards tribal based civil war. Unemployment is now the highest in the world.

But hey, when you are fighting for Oil Reserves and for religious domination who gives a fuck about the people?

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#30748 - 02 Jun 06 13:02 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
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Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
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Quote:
Originally posted by The One and Only Polar Bear:
Interesting piece in today’s Sydney Morning Herald about East Timor. It seem a lot of people have just woken up to the fact the ET getting independence may not have been such a good idea. They are now saying that some form of semi autonomy would have been a better solution., Duuuuuuh!!!!!!
well, duuuuh too ... i was treated like a pariah in the ALP in the early '90s for daring to suggest that ET would be better off as an auotomous region, so as not to become a burden on australia. the so-called left-wing of the party particularly were blindly rabid in their support of an independent state, completely forgetting that australia too has legitimate national interests, and those interests include stable borders without refugee problems.

so, for what it's worth:

<font size=4>I TOLD YOU SO!</font>
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#30749 - 02 Jun 06 14:07 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Polar Bear Offline
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Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
This would not have been during the Catholic dominated ALP years would it? When Paul Keeting was kissing the Popes arse and telling him he would fix the little problem of those poor Catholics in East Timor.

I have argued many many many times that the Catholic Church is as fundamentalist, as crazy and as power hungry (and as dangerous) as Islam.

Religion and politics DO NOT MIX. Yet in the late 80s to mid 90s the Catholic Church had a powerful ear in the ALP. Now the ALP has been consigned to the garbage bin the Catholic Church courts the Liberals, with maniacs like Tony Abbot pushing the Popes agenda on abortion etc.

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#30750 - 02 Jun 06 14:12 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Macan Tutul Offline
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Registered: 02 Dec 05
Posts: 1502
Loc: Jungle and cage ;)
I agree PB, POLITIC AND RELIGION DO NOT MIX!!

Politic is a performance, accomplishment and just some part from the “blueprint”, politic is not a religion or morality teaching whose see the world or living as a object which need to be done entirely and totalities. Those kind of politic just happen in a fascist nation, because if politic being doing with totalities, impossible for opposition, compromise and negotiation as a common activity in politic ways also being taboo, there’s only two choices in totalities politics and both of them against with democracy principals or destroy their politic enemies until the smallest one or being destroyed.

religion mentioned as cultural sign, as culture system, religion become establishment and mobilization power which sometimes creating conflict, in here when religion (as culture) be function in a society in real, will born the paradox reality on one side religion could be an integration of instrument but the other side could be disintegration factor.
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#30751 - 02 Jun 06 14:14 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Polar Bear Offline
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Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
I have a theory that the current oil situation had been predicted about 10 years ago. Certainly it was clear by 1990 that China was on the verge of becoming a manufacturing superpower, and the connection between that and a Chinese driven demand for oil was not hard to work out.

This makes a lot of decisions over that last 10 years (oil pipelines out of Russia into Europe, the US Push to drill for oil in Alaska, Iraq, East Timor, all seem like a plan.

Maybe Mad Max 2 was not so far off.

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#30752 - 02 Jun 06 14:18 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
Pooh Bah

Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
Loc: Centre of the Universe
catholics only really dominated the ALP during the 1950s. they eventually split off to form the "democratic labour party", which was "neither democratic, labour nor a party". it quickly developed into a hyper right-wing conservative pressure group aligned with the "right to life" and other shady groups.

keating never supported ET independence; to the contrary, he was a strong supporter of an autonomy plan similar to that implemented in new caledonia, in which after 10 years of full autonomy a referendum would be held to determine whether they would declare independence.

howard, dickhead that he is, also supported this position. As did almost all of DFAT.

unfortuately, the australian public are idiots when it comes to foreign relations and their own national interests and survival.
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#30753 - 02 Jun 06 14:21 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Polar Bear Offline
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Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
The problem is that the fundamentalists (religious and socio economic) know that without government support they would never achieve domination.

Communism, which is a monetary concept and not a governmental ideal, would never succeed on a voluntary basis. “Sorry KuKu, you have too much money, so you should give some to Santi” etc. But with the enforcement of government legislation your money is forcibly taken off you and redistributed.

The same logic exists for religion. A handful may go to mass, and obey the Koran, but if you can enshrine the religion in law, you can fully enforce its teachings.

I was in Ireland in the 70s. In the south possession of a condom was against the law. So was divorce. So was homosexuality. Abortion. The Pill was illegal. All laws demanded by the Catholic Church, and enshrined into legislation by a stupid pliable government.

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#30754 - 02 Jun 06 14:26 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Quote:
Originally posted by KuKuKaChu:
catholics only really dominated the ALP during the 1950s. they eventually split off to form the "democratic labour party", which was "neither democratic, labour nor a party". it quickly developed into a hyper right-wing conservative pressure group aligned with the "right to life" and other shady groups.

keating never supported ET independence; to the contrary, he was a strong supporter of an autonomy plan similar to that implemented in new caledonia, in which after 10 years of full autonomy a referendum would be held to determine whether they would declare independence.

howard, dickhead that he is, also supported this position. As did almost all of DFAT.

unfortuately, the australian public are idiots when it comes to foreign relations and their own national interests and survival.
This isn’t quite how I heard the discussion. Keating was saying one thing to Indonesia and another to East Timor. The subject of ET independence was a constant topic in his cabinet, and promises and plans had been made for many years.

As for that idiot clock collector Keating, he was so far up the Popes clacker in his private audience who knows what was promised. Certainly as soon as the world bank had power over Indo, Timor became independent.

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#30755 - 02 Jun 06 14:42 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
Pooh Bah

Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
Loc: Centre of the Universe
keating's public position was ambiguous, for obvious political reasons. his actual position was consistently in support of continued integration with indonesia.

his clocks? smile well, i'm not going to defend him over that. some people even collect watches, so i'm told! wink

timors separation from indonesia really came down to one man: habibie. when howard publically voiced a "new caledonia" style solution to habibie (ie, 10 years autonomy, then a referendum), the oaf arrogantly dismissed it by saying that the referendum (actually an autonomy plebiscite) could be held straight away. he was absolutely convinced people in ET would vote to stay in Indonesia.

the military completely freaked out on hearing this! indonesians believed their own propaganda, and paid the price. habibie and ordinary everyday indonesians could hardly believe the results, so convinced where they they people in ET wanted to stay with the republic!

the rest is history ...

ET only became an independent country because of an ignorant, arrogant man called habibie.
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KuKuKaChu: dangerously too sophisticated

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#30756 - 02 Jun 06 17:12 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Patung Offline
Member++

Registered: 11 Mar 06
Posts: 234
Loc: Indonesia
I used to know quite a few NCC "Movement" figures in Melbourne and they were gung-ho for Suharto (as I was) and pro East Timor being a part of Indonesia. They fully supported the Indonesian invasion of ET becasue they saw it as forestalling a 'Cuba' situation. But things change, the world doesn't stand still.

Keating was no Catholic in the sense that he supported the views of the Catholic church. When he first came into parliament, yes (in his maiden speech he advised women to get back into the kitchen), but later he fell in with the fashionable left-wing, feminist dominant culture/ideology in Australia and that was that. The real Catholics, I mean conservative ones, loathed him. As i did, what a creep.
_________________________
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#30757 - 02 Jun 06 17:26 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
Pooh Bah

Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
Loc: Centre of the Universe
hehe ... well i for one liked the arrogant turd! smile Keating almost single-handedly dragged australia into the modern world, both as a treasurer and a prime minister, after years of moribund conservative govt led by Fraser (and deputy sheriff Howard). he *did* what conservatives only talked about.

personally, i think he was a little *too* close to soeharto, but that was to some extent a counter-balance to the prevailing hostility towards asia in the australian community. remember also, it was keating (and to a lesser extent hawke) who put asia back on the map for australians.
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#30758 - 02 Jun 06 19:42 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Patung Offline
Member++

Registered: 11 Mar 06
Posts: 234
Loc: Indonesia
I call him a creep because as I said he fell in with the dominant socio-cultural views of the upper-middle class elites in Australia, views I loathe, and which are a sell-out of the people Labor are supposed to represent. Plus I'm hiding out in Indonesia from them. laugh

His economic and foreign policy record I can't really judge due to woeful and inexcusable lack of knowledge in that area. smile
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#30759 - 02 Jun 06 19:52 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
He was a 100% prick.

He was an abysmal treasurer, and it took Howard many years to recover form the debts left by Keating. He didn’t do a lot for the people either – I was paying 17.55 mortgage rates under this economic maniac.

You must remember Keating had no education. He didn’t even get his HSC. He did not go to university. He joined the party at an early age ,and true to the ALP rose to the top by Branch Stacking and Arse licking.

He was an entire group of now discredited ALP members. Gareth Evans, who move to Europe and later bagged Australia. Fat Bastard Richardson, who will turn out to be one of the biggest crims in Australia (wait till the Alpine Offset Printing scandal blows up. Cheryl Kernot – who jumped ship. Etc etc etc.

You would not feed any of them. They all arrived poor, did fuck all and retired rich.

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#30760 - 06 Jun 06 04:01 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Magpie Offline
Member**

Registered: 29 Mar 06
Posts: 1306
Loc: The Toon
Australia seeks E Timor support

Australia has called for more Asian countries to send troops and police officers to support the peacekeeping operation in East Timor.
Defence Minister Brendan Nelson made the call as unrest continued to blight the capital, Dili.

His comments came as East Timor's parliament met to discuss the violence that has left at least 20 people dead.

East Timor's Foreign Minister Jose Ramos Horta also began meeting rebel leaders, for talks on the crisis.

Some 2,200 international troops are trying to overcome the unrest, which was sparked by the sacking in March of 600 soldiers who had gone on strike.

The violence has since spread to rival ethnic gangs. Tens of thousands of people have fled to refugee camps to seek safety.

'Criminal haven'

Australian Defence Minister Brendan Nelson said he was confident other Asia nations would choose to join the multinational force.


"From Australia's point of view there are a number of countries who have been involved in East Timor before, and countries who work very well with New Zealand, Malaysia and Australia," Mr Nelson told Australian TV.

Mr Nelson warned at the weekend that East Timor could become a haven for terrorists and criminals if the government were to fall.

He was speaking as parliament convened in Dili for the first time since the violence began.

Some MPs were reportedly unable to attend because they feared for their safety, but 50 lawmakers were present, enough for a quorum.

Members heard expressions of concern about MPs unable to attend the session.

One MP expressed concern about reports of weapons caches in his district and another asked for security to escort him to future parliamentary meetings.

"Without any security we cannot do anything," said MP Antonio Cardozo.


Foreign Minister Jose Ramos Horta, who is also the new defence minister, visited several rebel commanders to discuss the crisis.

He was aiming to explore "avenues for all-inclusive talks which will lead to a lasting resolution of the political issues," the defence ministry said in a statement before the talks.

A ministry spokesman told Reuters news agency afterwards that the two sides had had a "good talk".

He planned to visit more rebel leaders in the next few days, his office said.

The talks came amid continuing violence in Dili, where rival gangs hurled rocks at each other and houses were reportedly burned.

Foreign peacekeepers fired teargas to break up fighting between gangs.

Brigadier Mick Slater, who is commanding the Australian troops, said that a strong police force was needed.

"It is about getting criminals off the streets and police do that better than soldiers," he told journalists.

"The tensions in the city are too great for us to drop the ball on this one," he said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/5047272.stm
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#30761 - 06 Jun 06 04:03 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Magpie Offline
Member**

Registered: 29 Mar 06
Posts: 1306
Loc: The Toon
No happy ending for East Timor

By Jonathan Head
BBC News, East Timor

After a dramatic breakdown in law and order in the tiny Pacific state, the government of East Timor asked for assistance from foreign troops.


An international military force arrived in East Timor last week

But will the world's youngest country ever conquer its internal unrest and build upon the independence it gained just four years ago?

I am surrounded by sights and sounds from the past: the high-pitched shouts of frenzied young men brandishing their clumsy, homemade weapons, dogs howling.

Plumes of smoke rise into the impossibly blue sky over Dili and I hear the occasional crackle of gunfire.

I can feel the same rush of adrenalin - the shaky urge to run - and I can feel something else, a heavy weariness I do not remember from before.

Journalists are supposed to stay detached from their stories but, of course, that is a myth.

Happy endings?

East Timor was unusual for a "country in crisis" story because of the extraordinary levels of sympathy it aroused.


Indonesia's 25-year occupation of East Timor ended in 1999

Back in 1999 every journalist was gunning for it during its heroic bid for independence.

The astonishing 98% turnout for the referendum by terrorised, illiterate people seemed to confirm what we already sensed, that this was one story where it was easy to tell the good guys from the bad.

And it was a story which had a happy ending.

The harrowing distraction of the country and the enforced uprooting of the population by Indonesian soldiers was followed within weeks by deliverance in the hands of an international intervention force, and eventually by independence under a popular and charismatic leader.

But maybe we should stop believing in happy endings.

This past week I have watched East Timor's capital being destroyed all over again, this time by the Timorese people themselves.


Australian troops have rushed back to prevent a full scale civil war and Ian Martin, the same UN official who organised the 1999 referendum, has returned to see just how much help the UN's one-time poster child is going to need to stand on its own feet again.


President Xanana Gusmao made an emotional appeal for reconciliation

It is going to need a lot.

Foreign Minister Jose Ramos Horta, who won a Nobel Peace Prize for his dogged belief in his tiny country's capacity to rule itself, tells me he wants to see a far bigger international presence and for much longer.

President Xanana Gusmao is the one man who seems to retain the affection of all Timorese.

I saw him for just five minutes in the lovely garden he has made for his family in the hills overlooking Dili, hours after he declared emergency rule.

He had not lost the appearance of serenity and light-heartedness he always seems to wear but he said: "I don't know how we can solve this."

Own worst enemy

I am standing with my friend Edu in the deserted streets of Dili. The shops are all boarded up and, for the first time, he looks old - his face lined with anxiety.

He sent his children out of town to safety and he spent several nights sleeping in his car with his wife Rosa because he was too scared to sleep at home.

This is Edu who survived several bouts of torture in jail under Indonesia; Edu who took me on the long journey up to the mountains to meet the commander of the Falintil fighters in 1999 (the same commander who has just seen his army disintegrate); Edu, who never lost faith in his country however poor and troubled it was.

He has built his own business and employs several people, some of them from Indonesia, the country he fought for so long.

But he is no longer sure East Timor can recover.

The damage is serious this time, he says, and it is self-inflicted.

Failure of leadership

So did we get it wrong believing East Timor could be a shining example in a world of failed states?

Should it have stayed a part of Indonesia?

Is the yearning for self-governance an overrated one?

If this nation is to survive, it needs to find new leaders


There will doubtless be many who draw that conclusion. I do not think so, though.

An awful lot has gone wrong very quickly.

Splits in the army and police have turned within weeks to full scale gun battles and to ordinary people from different parts of East Timor turning on each other.

There has clearly been a catastrophic failure of leadership by the government and especially by those who spent the 24 years of Indonesian occupation in exile.

They have the weakest roots here but have been behind the most reckless manoeuvring, like the decision to create new heavily armed police units.

If this nation is to survive, it needs to find new leaders.

There are worries too over what impact the temptation of the country's first oil revenues will have.

But the international community must also carry some blame. A great deal was spent on East Timor but often unwisely.

'Seduced' by courage

The UN proclaimed it a rare nation-building success story but too quickly, and the mission was scaled down to a symbolic level after independence was declared four years ago.

The UN placed too much faith in leaders who had shown great skill opposing Indonesia but had no experience of governing.

It was seduced by the astonishing courage and unity of the people in wanting their independence but it underestimated what years of terror, isolation and grinding poverty had done to them.

They now need to understand, as we all do, that nation building is not quick or glorious but a very slow, messy and often humdrum process.

But that longing for independence is the one thing that East Timorese can take pride in.

They kept it and nurtured it against impossible odds during the long years when the rest of the world preferred to forget about them.

And in all the times I have been back here recently and seen their lofty expectations of independence disappointed, they never lost their pride in having won it seven years ago.

What they need right now is to start believing in their future as a nation again.

From Our Own Correspondent was broadcast on Saturday, 3 June, 2006 at 1130 BST on BBC Radio 4. Please check the programme schedules for World Service transmission times.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/5041052.stm
_________________________
"People say funny things......."

Peter Kay

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#30762 - 06 Jun 06 08:36 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
WHAT A MESS.

I hope a lot of people now hang their heads in shame, having forced this upon the people of Timor.

In 1946 a minority of Indians demanded independence from Britain. Pressure form the USA (especially from the Irish nationalists who hated the idea of any British colony).

Seasoned India watchers tired to tell everyone what would happen, but just like Timor, independence was forced upon an uncaring population. The result was a dreadful horrible civil war, with hundreds of thousands murdered overnight. Rivers like the Ganges were red with blood, and full of corpses. Trains were stopped and searched, hundreds of bodies left to rot at the trackside. The death toll was higher than all Indians who had died in WW2 the year before.

Sounds familiar????

Independence is NOT such a good idea every time. People who push for it should be made accountable for it. Right now there are a few people I would like to charge with manslaughter.

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#30763 - 06 Jun 06 11:59 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Magpie Offline
Member**

Registered: 29 Mar 06
Posts: 1306
Loc: The Toon
Arson, looting continue in East Timor's capital
DILI (AP):

Mobs looted sacks of seeds from a warehouse and set buildings on fire in East Timor's capital Tuesday as Australian peacekeepers blocked a major road following reports that protesters and gangs were trying to infiltrate the city.

The unrest was less severe than the fighting between military factions and gang warfare that erupted last month, but underscored the huge challenge for international forces and East Timor's fractured government as they try to restore a sense ofnormalcy to Dili.

Tens of thousands of fearful residents have fled their homes and are living in makeshift camps and shelters in and around the city. UN agencies have delivered emergency airlifts of food rations, cooking sets, tents and blankets.

The looting of a warehouse with agricultural supplies occurred near the city center, and peacekeepers did not immediately intervene. In neighborhoods near the airport, several plumes of smoke rose from buildings set on fire by gangs of young men.

Australian forces blocked traffic on the main road near the airport in one of their most robust security checks in recent days. Reports have circulated that anti-government demonstrators planned to hold a large rally in the capital, though a similar report last week proved unfounded.

On Monday, East Timorese lawmakers met in Parliament to discuss the country's turmoil and a top Cabinet minister met with rebel soldiers for reconciliation talks, as the fragile government showed signs of reviving.

Foreign Minister and Nobel laureate Jose Ramos Horta visited several rebel commanders whose dismissal in March helped trigger the crisis.

"They had a good talk," ministry spokesman Chris Santos said. He gave no details, citing the sensitivity of the situation.

Parliament's session was its first since fighting surged last month in Dili, although lawmakers said some colleagues did not attend because they feared for their safety or lacked transport.

Fifty legislators turned up, enough for a quorum in the 88-seat house.

Elections are scheduled for next year, but some East Timorese blame Prime Minister Mari Alkatiri for the turmoil and demand his ouster.

Alkatiri oversaw the dismissal in March of 600 striking soldiers, who clashed with loyalist troops and fled to the hills. Rival gangs took to the streets in the absence of security forces.

Ramos Horta also became defense minister after an Alkatiri ally quit the post in an effort to defuse the crisis. The rebels he met Monday did not include the most prominent one, Alfredo Reinado, but Horta's office said the minister planned to visit him in the next day or two.

The goal of the meeting was to explore "avenues for all-inclusive talks which will lead to a lasting resolution of the political issues," the Defense Ministry said.

East Timor faces a difficult road as it tries to heal deep divisions in the government and armed forces. (***)

http://www.thejakartapost.com/detaillgen.asp?fileid=20060606103542&irec=0
_________________________
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Peter Kay

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#30764 - 07 Jun 06 04:03 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Magpie Offline
Member**

Registered: 29 Mar 06
Posts: 1306
Loc: The Toon
Protest rally against E Timor PM

About 2,000 anti-government protesters have converged on the East Timorese capital, Dili.
They are demanding the resignation of Prime Minister Mari Alkatiri, whom they blame for sacking hundreds of striking soldiers in March.

The protests came amid further unrest and looting, which has prompted tens of thousands of residents to flee.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/5051158.stm

International peacekeepers are struggling to control the violence, which has left at least 20 people dead.


The protesters came to Dili on motorcycles, trucks and buses from western districts of East Timor.

Foreign peacekeepers searched their vehicles and, after negotiations, allowed them into Dili, but under the escort of heavily armed troops.

The demonstrators shouted "Down with Alkatiri!" as they punched the air and waved anti-government banners and flags.

After the rally reached the government offices, its leader Augusto Araujo Taro met President Xanana Gusmao to explain the demonstrators' demands.

Mr Gusmao made an emotional appeal to the crowd, before asking them to return home "because there are many problems that have to be solved".

Embattled PM

Mr Alkatiri has refused to step down, despite being widely criticised for not doing enough to end the recent unrest.

He sees the unrest as a political plot by his opponents to bring down his government, says the BBC's Phil Mercer in Sydney.

After the soldiers' sacking in March, the violence spread to different factions of the security forces and also led to gang violence in Dili.

The disorder is the worst East Timor has seen since its bloody fight for independence from Indonesia in 1999, our correspondent says.
_________________________
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#30765 - 08 Jun 06 05:36 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Magpie Offline
Member**

Registered: 29 Mar 06
Posts: 1306
Loc: The Toon
E Timor talks seek to end unrest

Gangs have been clashing on the streets of the capital
East Timor's defence minister has held talks with rebel leaders in a bid to end unrest which has seen thousands of people fleeing the capital, Dili.
Jose Ramos Horta met rebel soldiers to discuss the crisis, which was sparked after they were sacked by the Prime Minister, Mari Alkatiri.

A UN envoy said East Timor now expected the agency to play a greater role.

International peacekeepers are struggling to control the unrest, which has left at least 20 people dead.

Protesters have been demanding the resignation of Prime Minister Mari Alkatiri, whom they blame for sacking 600 striking soldiers in March.

After the dismissals, the violence spread to different factions of the security forces and led to gang violence in Dili, in the worst disorder since the state's fight for independence from Indonesia in 1999.

'Act together'

Mr Ramos Horta met rebel representatives - including their self-styled leader Major Alfredo Reinaldo - in the presence of UN observers.

"The minister left the meetings with a clear understanding of their intention to be involved in an all-inclusive dialogue to settle the political differences," his office said in a statement reported by the AFP agency.

The statement came as UN envoy Ian Martin told reporters the international community was working hard to restore security in East Timor.

"This is not a time for despair, it's a time for people to act together," he said at the end of a fact-finding mission

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/5054488.stm
_________________________
"People say funny things......."

Peter Kay

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#30766 - 08 Jun 06 08:02 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Conversation in Eagles Nest:

“Adolph, wake up, those East Timorese are rioting again”.

“What?”

“Dilli is in flames!”

“Serves the stupid bugger right for smoking in bed.”

“No not McHaggis, the city of Dilli in East Timor. Johnnie Howard wants you to fix it. “

“Oh Dear. Get General Guderian on the phone. Tell him to move his Panzers onto Dilli plains, and move in from ther North. Get Goring out of bed., get the Luftwaffe to bomb the city centre. Tell Skerenzy to get his Fallschirmjager to land on Paliament house at dawn.

Wake me up when its over.”

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#30767 - 08 Jun 06 11:37 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Dilli Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 26 Feb 06
Posts: 8044
Loc: Nearest Bar
McHaggis Highlanders are on standby with beef bayonets firmly secured for action! Now where the hell is East Timor!
_________________________
Menace to Sobriety


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#30768 - 09 Jun 06 05:18 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Magpie Offline
Member**

Registered: 29 Mar 06
Posts: 1306
Loc: The Toon
E Timor violence hits second town

The UN says more troops are needed to control the unrest
A provincial office of East Timor's ruling Fretilin party has been torched south of the capital, a lawmaker said.
Youths looted and burned the office in Gleno, Ermera district, Parliament's Speaker Francisco Guterres said.

It was the first reported violence outside the capital, Dili, since a wave of unrest erupted last month.

The UN has said more peacekeepers will be needed to end the unrest, which has left over 20 people dead.

More than 2,000 foreign troops, mostly from Australia, are already in Dili.

The crisis was triggered by the sacking of 600 striking soldiers in March. It spread to different factions of the security forces and led to gang violence in Dili.

More troops

Mr Guterres said the house of a party official in Ermera, which is about 40km (25 miles) south west of Dili, was also attacked and that there had been gunfire in the streets.

"I condemn those who attacked my representative in Ermera district and burned down our office," he said.

Rebel troops based in Gleno denied any involvement in the violence, with one of them questioning whether the incident was merely propaganda.

The government has been blamed for the violence and many protesters are calling for the resignation of Prime Minister Mari Alkatiri.

But a spokesman for Mr Alkatiri told AFP that the prime minister was not intending to meet a deadline set by the protesters for his resignation.

On Wednesday, a United Nations official said that Secretary-General Kofi Annan felt more UN peacekeepers were needed to control the unrest in East Timor.

"The council will have to make some decision as to what the UN posture in East Timor will look like in the months ahead, but it is pretty clear already from here that that will have to be increased," spokesman Stephane Dujarric told reporters.

The violence is the worst since East Timor's bloody separation from Indonesia in 1999.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/5058142.stm
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#30769 - 12 Jun 06 04:55 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Magpie Offline
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Registered: 29 Mar 06
Posts: 1306
Loc: The Toon
Inquiry urged for E Timor claims

The allegations come amid ongoing unrest in East Timor
East Timor's new defence minister has called for an inquiry into what he called "very serious allegations" involving Prime Minister Mari Alkatiri.
Australian media reported on Thursday that an armed group of men was claiming to have been recruited to eliminate Mr Alkatiri's political opponents.

Defence Minister Jose Ramos Horta said he doubted the allegations, but an independent inquiry was needed.

Mr Alkatiri denies the charges, saying people are trying to "demonise" him.

The allegations come amid continuing unrest in East Timor, sparked my Mr Alkatiri's decision to sack 600 soldiers in March.

Their protests led to gang and ethnic violence, mainly in the capital, Dili, in which at least 20 people have died. Thousands have fled their homes to seek safety.

'Hard to believe'

The allegations were first made on Thursday, when 30 armed men told an Australian Broadcasting Corporation reporter that former interior minister Rogerio Lobato had recruited them to help eliminate political opponents of Mr Alkatiri, including the 600 sacked soldiers.

Mr Lobato stepped down on 1 June after President Xanana Gusmao assumed responsibility for the army and police in a bid to end the violence.

Mr Ramos Horta, who is also Foreign Minister, said the president should now initiate a full investigation.

"I find it very hard to believe that our prime minister would arm civilians, individuals and in particular give orders to assassinate others no matter who they are," Mr Ramos Horta told Australian television.

He suggested that the inquiry could be carried out with international assistance, possibly from the United Nations.

Australian Foreign Minister Alexander Downer played down suggestions of Australian involvement in any investigation.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/5063622.stm
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Peter Kay

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#30770 - 13 Jun 06 04:22 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Magpie Offline
Member**

Registered: 29 Mar 06
Posts: 1306
Loc: The Toon
UN in aid appeal for East Timor

The United Nations is to issue an appeal for East Timor, where unrest has caused thousands to flee their homes.
Fien Riske-Nielson, UN Humanitarian Coordinator in East Timor, said the UN was seeking $18m (£9.8m) to support aid operations for three months.
Some 100,000 people were estimated to have left their homes and there were signs that number was rising, he said.
Foreign Minister Jose Ramos Horta warned that a political solution to the violence would take time.
"As far as a political solution (is concerned), that would take a few more days or even weeks before there is an absolute clarity of what direction this country is taking," Mr Ramos Horta said.
The two were touring a refugee camp which is currently home to 14,000 refugees.
'Increasing'
Mr Riske-Nielson said the appeal would be launched later in the day at the UN's New York headquarters. He expected "a positive response to the appeal".

But he expressed concern about the number of people fleeing the violence.
"We are planning to do an assessment again in the coming days because there are indications that the number could be increasing outside Dili," he said.
And he warned that overcrowding in the camps could lead to outbreaks of disease. "The situation in the camps is very difficult," he said.
The UN was due to ship 150 tons of relief supplies to Dili later in the day.
On Sunday, East Timor's government asked the UN to set up an investigation into the violence.
A probe was "critical for Timor-Leste to overcome its present crisis", Mr Ramos Horta said in a statement.
The violence was sparked by the sacking in March of 600 soldiers. Their protests led to gang and ethnic violence, mainly in the capital, Dili, and at least 20 people are known to have died.
A multinational force of some 2,200 troops is in the newly-independent nation to try and control the unrest.
_________________________
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#30771 - 14 Jun 06 18:48 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
You can say what you like about me. Crazy. Violent. Nazi. War monger. Savage.

I just watched on SBS tv, as some poor East Timorese woman was shaking with fear and anger, after her market stall, and all those of the other women, were overturned and trashed by supporters of the rebel soldiers.

Now the same documentary shows policemen being murdered by the same mob. Pulled from a vehicle and stabbed, after he surrendered his weapon.

You cannot negotiate with wild animals and idiots. You make them afraid of you. You go in hard, you make grow men shit themselves with fear.

Until we wake up, and stop being nice and start fixing problems, this will go on.

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#30772 - 15 Jun 06 04:28 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Magpie Offline
Member**

Registered: 29 Mar 06
Posts: 1306
Loc: The Toon
Gusmao 'shaken' by E Timor unrest

This was Mr Gusmao's first address since the violence began
East Timor's President Xanana Gusmao said the unrest plaguing his country had "shaken" the nation's leaders.
"We have witnessed the state become paralysed," he admitted in his first address to parliament since violence broke out last month.

Mr Gusmao also vowed to uphold the country's constitution.

He was speaking after Kofi Annan said he believed UN peacekeeping forces would have to return to East Timor, just a year after they were withdrawn.

The unrest was sparked by the sacking of 600 soldiers who had gone on strike claiming discrimination.

Nation suffering

Many people blame the prime minister, Mari Alkatiri, for not preventing the recent clashes - in which at least 20 people have died.

Mr Gusmao admitted in his televised address on Wednesday that the crisis had reminded the nation's leaders "that something was wrong".

"We have witnessed the state become paralysed in the wake of all the events that took place in Dili, and worse than that, we have witnessed that the population is suffering from the consequences," he said.

Mr Gusmao added that the fact his country needed to ask for international intervention should "frighten all of us who were elected by this people to ensure stability, security and better living conditions."


He said he would "continue to fulfil the sacred duty of safeguarding the democratic state" as a "guardian of the constitution".

Mr Gusmao did not comment directly on whether he supported the move by Mr Alkatiri's opponents to oust the PM, but his speech suggested he would not go along with their plans.

UN mistakes

Kofi Annan told a meeting of the Security Council in New York on Tuesday that he was "deeply concerned" about the situation in East Timor.

"It is obvious that the UN will have to go back in a much larger form than we are at the moment," he said. "And we will need to send an assessment mission on the ground to determine exactly what needs to be done."

International peacekeepers led by Australia are now patrolling the capital, and Mr Annan said it could take months before a possible handover to the UN.

According to a BBC correspondent in New York, East Timor was heralded as a great success for the UN - a model of nation building.

But Mr Annan admitted that the Security Council had scaled down the previous UN mission too quickly.

"The sad events of recent weeks reflect shortcomings not only on the part of the Timorese leadership but also on the part of the international community in inadequately sustaining Timor-Leste's (East Timor's) nation-building process," he said.

In East Timor, the UN's special representative Sukehiro Hasegawa said international prosecutors had arrived in Dili and would be working with the prosecutor-general's office to investigate the violence.

"They have commenced their criminal investigations into the incidents and events that took place in April and May, and they will continue to do so with a view to finding what really happened," he said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/5077860.stm
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#30773 - 19 Jun 06 04:34 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Magpie Offline
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Registered: 29 Mar 06
Posts: 1306
Loc: The Toon
Indonesia allows aid into E Timor

Indonesia is to open its border with East Timor to allow humanitarian aid to reach some 130,000 people affected by recent violence.
President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono announced the move at a meeting with his East Timorese counterpart in the Indonesian island of Bali.

Meanwhile, the leader of East Timor's rebels has said his group has disarmed.

At least 21 people are thought to have died in unrest sparked by the sacking of hundreds of soldiers.

The Indonesian president said Jakarta would open its land border with East Timor to allow assistance through.

East Timor's President Xanana Gusmao thanked Mr Yudhoyono for his help and expressed his hope that East Timor would not need similar help in the future.

Rebels disarm

Earlier, rebel leader Major Alfredo Reinaldo insisted that any further violence would not come from members of his units.


He turned over his own M-16 rifle to Australian peacekeeping troops on Friday, as well as about 20 other weapons belonging to his followers.

Speaking in Bali, Mr Gusmao said Mr Reinaldo - who continues to call for the resignation of Prime Minister Mari Alkatiri - was not to blame for the outbreak of violence.

Mr Alkatiri sacked the 600 soldiers in March after they deserted, complaining of discrimination.

"Major Alfredo is not the one who initiated the problem, we have many other issues to think about," Mr Gusmao said.

Violence across the tiny country prompted the despatch of about 2,500 peacekeeping troops from Australia, Malaysia, New Zealand and Portugal.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/5091636.stm
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#30774 - 22 Jun 06 20:04 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
The Australian — NewsIt's a shambles and Alkatiri will fight
COMMENT
Mark Dodd
June 22, 2006
THERE is no argument; Mari Alkatiri has to go.
The Prime Minister is deeply unpopular and loathed by the influential Catholic Church, which represents more than 90per cent of East Timor's one million people.

But be warned: Alkatiri is a fighter and he will not go down without a struggle.

And evidence that his lieutenants allegedly armed sympathetic civilians to enforce his Government's writ point to dangers ahead.

Is he corrupt? As revealed in The Australian last year, his brother, Bader Alkatiri, was given a monopoly weapons import licence by the Government. Critics complained that parliament was not consulted and were promptly told by the ruling party to shut up.

Alkatiri's leadership style was worryingly autocratic for an emerging democracy and, in the words of a World Bank report, was growing increasingly out of touch with the people.

In recent years, he was no friend of a free and unencumbered media. East Timorese newspapers and reporters critical of his policies were threatened with closure or defamation proceedings.

But Australian diplomats liked him. A former Australian ambassador to Dili once told me that, faced with a dearth of suitably qualified public administrators, Alkatiri was well briefed and his political antennae finely tuned to deal with the fraught Timor Sea oil and gas negotiations.

And what to make of his mooted replacement - Nobel peace prize laureate and present Foreign Minister Jose Ramos Horta?

Ramos Horta already has a lot on his hands, having just added to his impressive portfolio the title of Defence Minister.

There may be questions on his commitment to the job and his people. Barely a month ago, Ramos Horta was trumpeting his credentials as the next replacement for UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan.

Out of the shambles that is East Timor, only one man has emerged with his credibility intact - President Xanana Gusmao.

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#30775 - 22 Jun 06 20:05 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Notice the word CATHOLIC in there.

I hate fucking Catholic interference as much as I hate Islamic.

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#30776 - 23 Jun 06 04:26 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Magpie Offline
Member**

Registered: 29 Mar 06
Posts: 1306
Loc: The Toon
East Timor leaders in stand off

East Timor's President Xanana Gusmao has threatened to resign unless Prime Minister Mari Alkatiri steps down.
The ultimatum follows Mr Gusmao's request for Mr Alkatiri to quit, saying he had lost confidence in him.

But Mr Alkatiri, who earlier met with ruling party officials to discuss his political future, appeared to have received the backing of his party.

The prime minister is unpopular amongst East Timorese, many of whom blame him for failing to stop recent violence.

Mr Alkatiri's decision to sack 600 soldiers in March sparked unrest which later turned into East Timor's worst violence since it voted for independence from Indonesia in 1999.

At least 21 people have died and thousands more have fled to refugee camps to escape the violence.

"Ashamed"

The BBC's Jonathan Head says rivalry between the two men has been simmering for years.

The president is a hugely important figure in East Timor, a charismatic former guerrilla commander who is admired and trusted throughout the country.

But the constitution gives the president little power, and the prime minister has a track record as a wily and tenacious politician who is not easily intimidated, our correspondent says.

Mr Gusmao said in a televised address on Thursday that the ruling party, Fretilin, had to make a decision.

"Fretilin has to choose, ask Mari Alkatiri to take responsibility for the major crisis, about the sacrifices of the state, the law and democracy," he said.

"Or, tomorrow, I will send a letter to parliament to inform them that I will resign from being president of the republic, because I am ashamed of all the bad things that have happened, on behalf of the state to its people," he said.

On Tuesday, he told Mr Alkatiri he had lost confidence in him after watching an Australian documentary containing allegations against the prime minister.

Mr Alkatiri has been accused of recruiting a group of former fighters to act against his political opponents. He has repeatedly denied any involvement and prosecutors said on Wednesday there was no evidence linking him to the case.

But one of his former allies, former Interior Minister Rogerio Lobato, faces charges of conspiracy, arming civilians and attempted revolution in connection with the case.

Party backing

Despite this, after emergency talks with ruling Fretilin party members, Mr Alkatiri appeared to have secured their support.

"Fretilin reaffirms Dr Mari Alkatiri as prime minister," the AP news agency quoted party spokesman Jose Reis as saying.

Mr Alkatiri himself told Lusa news agency in a telephone interview that he would not resign.

Mr Gusmao said that if there was no progress by Friday morning, he would submit his resignation to parliament.

The president is a widely respected former guerrilla leader whose move to assume control of national security on 30 May was welcomed.

Mr Alkatiri, a veteran of East Timor's independence movement, spent the 24 years of Indonesian occupation in exile in Mozambique.

He is credited with skilfully negotiating with Australia over East Timor's rights to oilfields in the Timor Sea, but he is also viewed by many Timorese as a cold and arrogant politician.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/5105590.stm
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#30777 - 26 Jun 06 04:27 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Magpie Offline
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Posts: 1306
Loc: The Toon
East Timor ruling party backs PM

East Timor's governing party has given its backing to the country's embattled Prime Minister Mari Alkatiri, ignoring widespread calls for him to quit.
The decision immediately triggered the resignation of popular Foreign and Defence Minister Jose Ramos-Horta.

Mr Alkatiri has been engaged in a power struggle with President Xanana Gusmao, who wants the prime minister to resign following a recent wave of violence.

Thousands of protesters have also been calling for Mr Alkatiri to stand down.

The prime minister had said he would resign if the ruling Freitlin party wanted him to.

But the party decided at a meeting in the capital, Dili, on Sunday that he should remain in office.

Government 'not functioning'

Mr Ramos-Horta immediately resigned from his two Cabinet posts "because the government is not functioning properly," presidential spokesman Agio Pereira said.

Mr Pereira said the minister had been told "that the Freitlin central committee meeting today had decided to keep Mr Alkatiri as prime minister".

Mr Ramos-Horta won the Nobel Peace Prize for his long campaign for East Timorese independence from Indonesia while living in exile in Australia.

Almost 30 people have died in East Timor since March in a wave of violence and political chaos after Mr Alkatiri dismissed hundreds of members of the armed forces.

Presidential re-think

Last week, Mr Gusmao sent a letter to Mr Alkatiri demanding he step down in the wake of East Timor's worst violence since independence in 1999.

If the prime minister did not resign, Mr Gusmao said he might do so himself. But a rally on Friday called on the president not to step down.

Mr Gusmao is a widely respected former guerrilla leader, seen as perhaps the only unifying figure amongst East Timor's leaders.

But Mr Alkatiri has become increasingly unpopular. Many people have blamed him for failing to prevent recent unrest which has led to thousands fleeing their homes.

He has also been hit by allegations that he helped recruit a "hit squad" to act against his political opponents - accusations he denies but which Mr Gusmao said contributed to his loss of confidence in his prime minister.

There are now a number of armed factions, some originating in the army and police, who are backing one side or the other, says the BBC's Jonathan Head in Dili.

In these conditions the United Nations must somehow try to start a new mission to help rebuild the country's damaged institutions.

The prospects for success look unpromising at the moment, our correspondent says.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/5114484.stm
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#30778 - 26 Jun 06 04:54 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Magpie Offline
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Registered: 29 Mar 06
Posts: 1306
Loc: The Toon
Crisis in E Timor as two ministers quit

Two ministers, including Nobel laureate Jose Ramos Horta, have resigned from the government of embattled East Timorese Prime Minister Mari Alkatiri, throwing the fledgling country into further turmoil.

Ramos Horta resigned as foreign and defence minister, effective from 5pm Sunday. It was later announced that telecommunications minister, Ovidio Amaral, had also resigned.

The resignation of Ramos Horta, who won a Nobel peace prize in 1996 for his non-violent resistance to Indonesian rule, propels the country into deeper crisis, and will fuel fears the government may completely unravel.

"I decided to resign from the government until a new government is established," Ramos Horta said through his spokesman.

"I am ready to serve this nation in whatever position."

A spokesman for East Timor's president Xanana Gusmao, Agio Pereira, said Ramos Horta had resigned after being told the Fretilin central committee meeting had decided to keep Alkatiri as prime minister, ignoring calls from Gusmao and thousands of protesters for him to resign.

Gusmao last week demanded Alkatiri step down, after seeing an Australian documentary purporting to show evidence he had agreed to have a hit squad armed and tasked with killing his rivals.

His former interior minister, Rogerio Lobato, has been charged with distributing the weapons. But East Timor's independent prosecutor-general, who is conducting a UN-backed investigation, has said he does not have any evidence implicating Alkatiri.

The prime minister has repeatedly denied the allegations and has refused to step down.

Calls for his resignation began mounting after Dili was rocked by violence in late May which led to 21 deaths and more than 2,200 foreign peacekeepers being deployed. The unrest was triggered by Alkatiri sacking some 600 deserting soldiers in March.

Senior Fretilin official Estanislau da Silva, who is also agriculture minister, told reporters in Dili that the prime minister had presented all of the options "honestly" to the members of the central committee.

"The decision of the central committee was a unanimous resolution asking him not to resign, and the president (Gusmao) not to resign ... they are historical figures, they can engage in dialogue to resolve the crisis," da Silva said.

Asked about Ramos Horta's resignation, he said: "We have only been informed of this and will make a formal statement after considering it."

Da Silva said Fretilin would be seeking a legal and judicial mechanism to resolve the conflict, including the conflict between people of the country's east and west.

He said the leaders recognised the urgent need to involve internationally credible mediators in the situation and sought the support of the Catholic church and other religious groups to help with the solution.

They would be "closely following investigations concerning the illegal distribution of arms and cooperating with them," da Silva said.

The party would also seek the support of the Catholic church in searching for a solution to the crisis, he said.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/060623/2/zi9e.html
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Peter Kay

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#30779 - 26 Jun 06 13:33 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
One key point that must be understood here: Mari Alkatiri is a Muslim.

Some of my sources in Dili and elsewhere tell me that it is "quite possible" that the TNI "has got to Alkatiri -- appealing to him as 'Islamic brothers'".

Remember when the violence really kicked into gear a few weeks ago, one of the first things that happened was "looters" busted into the Supreme Court and stole the indictment files on Indonesia's Gen. Wiranto. Hmmmmm, interesting choice of items to "loot" (perhaps it has some value on E-Bay??). Kinda makes one wonder, doesn't it?
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#30780 - 26 Jun 06 13:37 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
Pooh Bah

Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
Loc: Centre of the Universe
Mari Alkatri is a muslim?? well, i didn't know that ... but then, i tend to switch off when it comes to East Timor. it must be rather lonely being a muslim in a place like that, where tribalism still rules. that he would be responsive to "outside assistance" sounds plausible.
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#30781 - 26 Jun 06 13:57 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
His full name is Mari Bin Amude Alkatiri.

And then there is this from the BBC bio on Alkatiri:

"The descendant of Yemeni settlers, his brother is the leader of Dili's Islamic community - a
minority in the predominantly Catholic country - and Mari Alkatiri himself is a practising Muslim."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/1989267.stm

Here is an interesting article from Republika:

http://www.republika.co.id/koran_detail.asp?id=252534&kat_id=43

---------------------
_________________________
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#30782 - 26 Jun 06 14:08 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
Alkatiri has just announced within the last hour that he will step down!
_________________________
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#30783 - 26 Jun 06 14:12 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Quote:
Originally posted by riccardo:
Some of my sources in Dili and elsewhere tell me that it is "quite possible" that the TNI "has got to Alkatiri -- appealing to him as 'Islamic brothers'".
On the other hand, the Catholic Church has probably got to everyone else.

Lets not loose sight of the fact that Mari Alkatiri was DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED.

Once again Australian troops are going to enforce Catholic rule on Timor. Fuck me I hope the Pope pays for all of this……

Democracy. A fine thing until it comes up against ANY Religion.

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#30784 - 26 Jun 06 14:20 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Bear in mind that just as Islamic Extremists sit in the shadows of Timor, the Catholic Church are also up to their armpits. The have enormous power. Far Far greater than you could imagine. They get people elected into political parties here in Australia, they influence voters. They drive agendas.

Alkatiri has been forced to resign by pressure from the Catholic Church.

I have seen the Catholics first hand, preaching hatred from the pulpit. The only good one has a 5.56 hole through the head.

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#30785 - 26 Jun 06 14:25 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
Quote:
Originally posted by The One and Only Polar Bear:
Quote:
Originally posted by riccardo:
Some of my sources in Dili and elsewhere tell me that it is "quite possible" that the TNI "has got to Alkatiri -- appealing to him as 'Islamic brothers'".


On the other hand, the Catholic Church has probably got to everyone else.

Right you are PB, the Rebulika (Jakarta-based Muslim-oriented paper) article I linked above says exactly the same thing about the catholics' machinations against him -- Maybe Mr. K would be so kind as to give us a good translation.
_________________________
Just here proffering my pearls to swine, my throat to wolves and my trousers to the flagpole.

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#30786 - 26 Jun 06 14:28 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
So why are we removing a democratically elected leader?

Under whose authority? (other than the fucking Pope)

I smell a Rat, and it isn’t the one wearing a kilt…..

International Politics: If you don’t succeed, go back, overthrow what the people wanted and start again.

This stinks.

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#30787 - 26 Jun 06 14:37 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
Pooh Bah

Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
Loc: Centre of the Universe
the republika article certainly mentions catholic pressure against Alkatiri, but it goes on to accuse australia of being behind pressure for his removal, because he is a known-anti-australian. australia wants to remove him so that east timor can become its stepping stone into asia. usual nationalist bile.
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#30788 - 26 Jun 06 14:38 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Quote:
Originally posted by The One and Only Polar Bear:
The Australian — NewsIt's a shambles and Alkatiri will fight
COMMENT
Mark Dodd
June 22, 2006
THERE is no argument; Mari Alkatiri has to go.
The Prime Minister is deeply unpopular and loathed by the influential Catholic Church, which represents more than 90per cent of East Timor's one million people.

But be warned: Alkatiri is a fighter and he will not go down without a struggle.

And evidence that his lieutenants allegedly armed sympathetic civilians to enforce his Government's writ point to dangers ahead.

Is he corrupt? As revealed in The Australian last year, his brother, Bader Alkatiri, was given a monopoly weapons import licence by the Government. Critics complained that parliament was not consulted and were promptly told by the ruling party to shut up.

Alkatiri's leadership style was worryingly autocratic for an emerging democracy and, in the words of a World Bank report, was growing increasingly out of touch with the people.

In recent years, he was no friend of a free and unencumbered media. East Timorese newspapers and reporters critical of his policies were threatened with closure or defamation proceedings.

But Australian diplomats liked him. A former Australian ambassador to Dili once told me that, faced with a dearth of suitably qualified public administrators, Alkatiri was well briefed and his political antennae finely tuned to deal with the fraught Timor Sea oil and gas negotiations.

And what to make of his mooted replacement - Nobel peace prize laureate and present Foreign Minister Jose Ramos Horta?

Ramos Horta already has a lot on his hands, having just added to his impressive portfolio the title of Defence Minister.

There may be questions on his commitment to the job and his people. Barely a month ago, Ramos Horta was trumpeting his credentials as the next replacement for UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan.

Out of the shambles that is East Timor, only one man has emerged with his credibility intact - President Xanana Gusmao.
It is worth noting that the Australian Newspaper is a well known Catholic mouthpiece. It wets itself with pleasure (and has a four page spread) if the Pope visits, and takes every opportunity to denigrate the Queen of Australia.

It takes every opportunity to push an Australian Republic, and regularly attacks the UK.

I was not surprised to read this crap.

Incidentally, did I get to vote for the Pope?

I think the guy who shot the last one should have been given a knighthood by the Queen.

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#30789 - 26 Jun 06 14:40 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Quote:
Originally posted by KuKuKaChu:
the republika article certainly mentions catholic pressure against Alkatiri, but it goes on to accuse australia of being behind pressure for his removal, because he is a known-anti-australian. australia wants to remove him so that east timor can become its stepping stone into asia. usual nationalist bile.
Which makes sense if you realise the extent of Catholic power in Australia……

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#30790 - 26 Jun 06 14:41 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Personally I would dedicate my life to helping Bin Laden if it meant destroying the Roman Catholic Church.

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#30791 - 26 Jun 06 15:04 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
The people of East Timor overwhelmingly elected Xanana Gusmao as president in a direct vote and his party, Fretilin, was

the largest vote-getter. The Fretilin execs (not the general populace) then appointed Alkatiri as PM, which most

commentators thought was a political move to appease predominantly Muslim Indonesia. Xanana's policy focus over the

last 4 years has been to reconcile with Jakarta.

Under E. Timor constitutional law, there is no simple way to "remove" the PM without creating a constitutional crisis, so the

only feasible way was to urge him to voluntarily step down -- which just happened an hour ago.

I feel truly distressed and saddened for the people I know there. I sure hope they can repair the damage and get on with

nation building.
_________________________
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#30792 - 26 Jun 06 16:08 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
The population of Australia don’t elect John Howard as PM. I didn’t vote for Maggie Thatcher as PM. They are also appointed by the elected members of the parliament.


Alkatiri was elected by a portion of the populace, and appointed PM by the parliament.

This is the Westminster democratic system.

KuKu can doubtless point to another such constitutional crisis when an elected PM was removed by a constitutional head. They are still arguing about that one……..

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#30793 - 26 Jun 06 16:25 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
Pooh Bah

Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
Loc: Centre of the Universe
Quote:
Originally posted by The One and Only Polar Bear:
KuKu can doubtless point to another such constitutional crisis when an elected PM was removed by a constitutional head. They are still arguing about that one……..
WE WANT GOUGH! WE WANT GOUGH! WE WANT GOUGH! WE WANT GOUGH! ...

"may well we say 'god save the queen', because nothing will save the governor-general!"
_________________________
KuKuKaChu: dangerously too sophisticated

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#30794 - 26 Jun 06 16:35 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
Pooh Bah

Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
Loc: Centre of the Universe
Quote:
Originally posted by KuKuKaChu:
Quote:
Originally posted by The One and Only Polar Bear:
KuKu can doubtless point to another such constitutional crisis when an elected PM was removed by a constitutional head. They are still arguing about that one……..
WE WANT GOUGH! WE WANT GOUGH! WE WANT GOUGH! WE WANT GOUGH! ...

"may well we say 'god save the queen', because nothing will save the governor-general!"
this, of course, was said on the steps of the (old) parliament house on the 11th of November, 1975. on the 12th of December, 32 days later, indonesia invaded east timor, exploiting the political chaos in australia.

so, the blame for this whole east timor mess should really be shunted home to one man: john kerr.
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#30795 - 26 Jun 06 16:43 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
riccardo Offline
Pujangga

Registered: 12 Oct 05
Posts: 2195
Loc: Jakarta
Quote:
Originally posted by KuKuKaChu:
the republika article certainly mentions catholic pressure against Alkatiri, but it goes on to accuse australia of being behind pressure for his removal, because he is a known-anti-australian. australia wants to remove him so that east timor can become its stepping stone into asia. usual nationalist bile.
One thing I find most intriguing is the fact that Alkatiri was, for the first few years in office, adamantly pressing for a UN tribunal to nail all the RI generals. And RI media and nationalists were reviling him as a 'traitor and bad Muslim'...

THEN suddenly about a year ago nary a word from him about tribunals or justice.

AND NOW he is being defended by RI nationalists!

curiouser and curiouser, I say...
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#30796 - 26 Jun 06 21:02 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Clift N. Anthony Offline
Member+

Registered: 27 Jun 06
Posts: 40
Loc: Mama Roma's
Tribunals, shmoonals I read the Brooklyn Tribunal every morning and they dont ever mispell curious -- haa haa smart guy.
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#30797 - 26 Jun 06 22:26 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
branmac Offline
Member+

Registered: 21 May 06
Posts: 84
Loc: Australia
OK Alkatiri is gone. can we talk more about Clit .. sorry Clint and his mis spelled name. He has more hair on his face than my ex wifes Clint..
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#30798 - 26 Jun 06 22:33 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
I am sorry, I misstyped it as Clunt before.

My kb is ucked up.

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#30799 - 26 Jun 06 22:37 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
branmac Offline
Member+

Registered: 21 May 06
Posts: 84
Loc: Australia
what's with the L in clunt. Must be the word that you say when you miss out.. Oh L oh L I didn't get any clunt tonite.. OK no more smut. He may be a real nice clunt
_________________________
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#30800 - 27 Jun 06 02:34 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Clift N. Anthony Offline
Member+

Registered: 27 Jun 06
Posts: 40
Loc: Mama Roma's
Darn right I'm nice, youz dont know the half of it, but gawd youz cant spell.. my name is Clift N. Anthony and I'm a an international singing sensation. If timor wants to be free, then let em free. I let my cat free last week.
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#30801 - 27 Jun 06 04:44 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Magpie Offline
Member**

Registered: 29 Mar 06
Posts: 1306
Loc: The Toon
Embattled East Timor PM resigns

East Timor's Premier Mari Alkatiri has resigned from his job in the wake of mounting pressure.
President Xanana Gusmao accepted the decision with immediate effect.

Mr Alkatiri had been widely blamed for triggering recent violence in the capital, Dili, because of his decision to sack 600 soldiers.

While the ruling party, Fretilin, continued to back the prime minister, President Gusmao urged him to quit, as did thousands of street protesters.

"I declare I am ready to resign from my position as prime minister," Mr Alkatiri told reporters at a news conference in Dili on Monday.

"Assuming my own share of responsibility for the crisis affecting our country, I am determined not to contribute to any deepening of the crisis," he said.


Wrong kind of leader

A few hours afterwards, Mr Gusmao said he had accepted a resignation letter from Mr Alkatiri.

Thousands of people who had gathered in Dili to call for the prime minister to quit began to celebrate, banging drums and beeping car horns.

"I think this decision is acceptable for everyone," said one of the demonstrators, Augustino.

Australian Prime Minister John Howard also welcomed the news, saying it was "evidence we are moving to the resolution of the issue".

Losing support

Ever since Mr Alkatiri made the decision to sack 600 disgruntled soldiers in March, his critics have urged him to resign.

Gun battles between the rebel soldiers and those loyal to the government then broke out, with machete-wielding youths forcing thousands to flee their homes in fear.

The unrest turned into East Timor's worst violence since it voted for independence from Indonesia in 1999, and led to the young nation asking foreign peacekeepers to come to its aid.

As well as blaming him for triggering the violence, Mr Alkatiri's opponents also allege that he formed a hit squad to kill his political rivals - a charge he firmly denies.

But despite the enormous pressure on him, from important donor countries and even from East Timor's popular president, the prime minister had - until Monday - adamantly refused to step down.

It is unclear what caused him to change his mind.

The resignation on Sunday of the popular foreign minister, Jose Ramos Horta, was undoubtedly a blow. But last week Mr Alkatiri had stood firm against a much more serious resignation threat from President Gusmao himself - a threat the president later rescinded.

There has been no indication so far of who will succeed Mr Alkatiri. Fretilin will select his replacement.

But according to the BBC's South East Asia correspondent, Jonathan Head, Mr Alkatiri's departure should make the task of stabilising East Timor easier, although the country will need significant international assistance for months, or even years, ahead.

A veteran of East Timor's independence movement, Mari Alkatiri spent the 24 years of Indonesian occupation in exile in Mozambique.

He is credited with skilfully negotiating with Australia over East Timor's rights to oilfields in the Timor Sea, but he is also viewed by many Timorese as a cold and arrogant politician.


He has long been indifferent to his own unpopularity, but in the current chaos the country needs a less divisive leader

The BBC's Joanathan Head

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/5116022.stm
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#30802 - 27 Jun 06 04:47 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Magpie Offline
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E Timor's 'wrong kind of leader'

By Jonathan Head
South East Asia correspondent, BBC News

It was with a characteristically unemotional performance that Mari Alkatiri announced the end of his - and East Timor's - first prime ministerial term.

"Having reflected deeply on the present situation prevailing in the country, assuming my own share of responsibility for the crisis, I am ready to resign from my position as prime minister," he told a press conference in Dili.

This, after weeks of pressure, during which he had repeatedly insisted his resignation would solve nothing, and had received the full backing of his party, Fretilin, which holds a majority of the seats in parliament.

So why the change of heart?

Mr Alkatiri referred to his desire to avoid a threatened resignation by President Xanana Gusmao - but that threat was made last week, and then withdrawn, so it is difficult to understand why it would have changed his mind now.

More likely it was the continued discussions with his colleagues in government on how to get East Timor out of the mess it is in that persuaded Mr Alkatiri to go.

He has long been indifferent to his own unpopularity, but in the current chaos the country needs a less divisive leader.

There was jubilation over the decision across the capital, Dili, and probably in many other areas of East Timor.

Mr Alkatiri has become a hate-figure, blamed for everything that has gone wrong in the country, and it was hard to see how rebuilding confidence and stability after the traumatic events of the past few weeks could start while he remained in office.

But was he really so bad?

Brusque manner

You hear many complaints about Mr Alkatiri, some of them obviously unjust.

I have often heard young people complain that he is a Muslim, as though that is a crime in a supposedly democratic and tolerant country.

They also accuse him of being a communist, because of his left-wing views and his long years living in Mozambique.

But these may at times have served East Timor well. His instinctive mistrust of Western help led him to drive a very hard bargain with Australia over East Timor's rights to oil and gas in the Timor Sea, helped by his skills as a negotiator.

It is unlikely anyone else could have done as well for the country.

He also has a deep personal commitment to the sustainable development of his country, and has tried hard to avoid too much aid dependency - ideas formed during his African exile.

Much of his unpopularity is due to his brusque, business-like manner.

He is an intellectual, impatient with people who express poorly thought-out ideas.

He has never seemed able to empathise with the suffering experienced by much of the population during the Indonesian occupation, or to find the right words to comfort those who are often unable to articulate what they feel about those years.

By contrast, President Gusmao is a master of the art of healing. With a few simple words, or just a hug, he can move crowds to tears.


Shortage of talent

The two men who have been running the country since independence could hardly have more different styles, and they have had a very uneasy relationship with each other.

Much of that goes back to Mr Gusmao's distrust of the Fretilin party, which he blames for harsh treatment of its rivals during the bitter struggle against Indonesian rule.


Mr Alkatiri is a consummate party man - Fretilin reaffirmed its backing for him three times in recent weeks, the last time less than 24 hours before he resigned.

The party remained loyal to the end, but he was arguably the wrong kind of leader for a country as traumatised as East Timor.


Crowds have been calling for Mr Alkatiri to go for weeks

More serious are the charges against Mr Alkatiri of corruption, and abuses of power.

Some of these will now be examined by an internationally-supervised investigation, as East Timor's infant judiciary is not up to the job.

Some corruption is perhaps inevitable, given the traditions of patronage and money-politics that prevail elsewhere in the region, but the charges of abusing his power are more serious.

A documentary by the Australian Broadcasting Corporation's Four Corners programme claims to have documentary evidence that Mr Alkatiri tacitly approved of the distribution of police weapons to civilians - a charge that has already led to the arrest of former Interior Minister Rogerio Lobato, at one time an ally of the prime minister.

Mr Alkatiri has denied the charges, and the prosecutor-general says he has not yet uncovered any evidence against him.

Certainly the murky events leading up to and after the fateful decision by Mr Alkatiri to endorse sacking more than a third of the army earlier this year need more investigation.

The fact that he was re-elected at the Fretilin party congress last month by a show of hands, rather by a secret ballot, does not reflect well on his democratic values.

But it is also worth remembering that East Timor has few capable leaders.

Education levels are among the world's lowest, and the long years of conflict under Indonesia's occupation, and Indonesia's chaotic withdrawal in 1999, left few local people with experience of government.

Mari Alkatiri is among the best they have. The country can ill-afford the loss of his abilities.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/5117510.stm
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#30803 - 27 Jun 06 06:51 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Notice the very different bias (or lack of it) in the non Catholic BBC report......

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#30804 - 27 Jun 06 06:57 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Magpie Offline
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Registered: 29 Mar 06
Posts: 1306
Loc: The Toon
Quote:
Originally posted by The One and Only Polar Bear:
Notice the very different bias (or lack of it) in the non Catholic BBC report......
Good old BBC. This is why i post their news reports here, I find that I can gain all the knowledge in the world, just like I used to as a kid. Some people have their favourite news resources...this is mine everyday. cool
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#30805 - 28 Jun 06 04:34 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Magpie Offline
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Posts: 1306
Loc: The Toon
Supporters rally behind Alkatiri

Thousands of supporters of East Timor's former PM Mari Alkatiri rallied outside Dili on Tuesday, saying they wanted to march into the capital.
But Mr Alkatiri, who resigned amid mounting criticism of his handling of weeks of unrest, urged them to wait "a day or two" before entering the city.

The show of support came as President Xanana Gusmao met with advisers to discuss who should replace Mr Alkatiri.

Under the constitution, Mr Alkatiri's ruling Fretilin party should decide.

But news reports from Dili suggested Mr Gusmao wanted to appoint someone from outside the party.

Unrest

Mr Alkatiri resigned on Monday, after a show-down with Mr Gusmao.

But on Tuesday, Mr Alkatiri appeared to hint at a possible come-back.

"We are people who don't want violence and want to win again in 2007," he said, referring to next year's scheduled election.

East Timor has been beset by unrest since Mr Alkatiri sacked 600 disgruntled soldiers in March.

Gun battles between the rebel soldiers and those loyal to the government then broke out, with machete-wielding youths forcing thousands to flee their homes in fear.

The unrest turned into East Timor's worst violence since it voted for independence from Indonesia in 1999, and led to the young nation asking foreign peacekeepers to come to its aid.

As well as blaming him for triggering the violence, Mr Alkatiri's opponents also allege that he formed a hit squad to kill his political rivals - a charge he firmly denies.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/5120830.stm
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#30806 - 28 Jun 06 05:16 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Magpie Offline
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Posts: 1306
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Aussies deployed as rivals clash in Dili

Wednesday June 28, 05:25 AM

Australian soldiers were on renewed alert in East Timor after fresh violence erupted in Dili only a day after the resignation of prime minister Mari Alkatiri.

The troops had set up road blocks after rival supporters and opponents of the former prime minister converged on the capital late Tuesday just as life began to return to normal, some shops and offices opening for the first time in weeks.

Mr Alkatiri, who resigned on Monday, has been summonsed by the nation's chief prosecutor to explain his alleged involvement in the distribution of arms and alleged plans to set up a secret hit squad. He has denied the allegations.

But the broadcast Tuesday night of an address by Mr Alkatiri to a large group of supporters at Hera, 10km east of Dili, sparked shooting in various parts of the city and caused general panic.

In the address, Mr Alkatiri blamed "militia-influenced" people from the west for distributing the arms and causing the recent violence.

The home of the Fretilin party's deputy parliamentary speaker, Jacob Fernandes, was burnt in the centre of town soon after the broadcast, and shots were reported in the suburbs of Becorah, Birro Pite, Surik Mas, and Kampong Alor.

Meanwhile, President Xanana Gusmao continues to lead negotiations on the makeup of a new transitional government.

East Timor's former foreign minister, Jose Ramos Horta, a frontrunner for the job, says he's confident a compromise will be chosen within days.

The Nobel Peace Prize winner has indicated he would be prepared to take on the prime ministership but says he'd prefer Fretilin's Arsenio Bano to accept the job.

East Timor has been rocked by unrest since April following Dr Alkatiri's decision to sack almost half the military.

The resulting violence between police and army factions left more than 30 people dead and forced nearly 150,000 people to flee their homes.

More than 2,200 foreign peacekeepers were deployed to restore order.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/060627/2/zk8b.html
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#30807 - 29 Jun 06 05:06 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Magpie Offline
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Registered: 29 Mar 06
Posts: 1306
Loc: The Toon
Mob torches homes in East Timor

Angry protesters have set fire to more than 20 homes in East Timor's capital Dili, in a sign that the violence which has blighted the city may not be over.
Stone-throwing youths are also reported to have attacked a refugee camp.

Analysts had hoped that the resignation of Prime Minister Mari Alkatiri earlier this week would end the crisis.

It is unclear who was behind the latest violence - both supporters and detractors of the former prime minister have been massing in the area.

Thousands of people supporting Mr Alkatiri and the ruling party Fretilin have gathered outside the capital, where they are thought to be preparing to march to Dili later on Wednesday.

But hundreds of anti-Alkatiri protesters are camped outside the main parliament building in the city, where they have been holding demonstratrations since last week.

International peacekeepers have increased patrols in the city, in case of further unrest.

Local people are also fearing the worst. "I am very worried," one businessman told Reuters news agency as he put shutters up on his kiosk. "I have taken my valuable stuff away."

Bowing to pressure

East Timor has been beset by unrest since Mr Alkatiri sacked 600 disgruntled soldiers in March.

Gun battles between the rebel soldiers and those loyal to the government then broke out, with machete-wielding youths forcing thousands to flee their homes in fear.

As well as blaming him for triggering the violence, Mr Alkatiri's opponents also allege that he formed a hit squad to kill his political rivals - a charge he firmly denies.

Mr Alkatiri's resignation had been seen by many as the solution to easing months of political crisis.

But even though he has now stepped down, and President Xanana Gusmao has announced plans for a caretaker government, tensions still remain.

Thousands of supporters of Mr Alkatiri rallied outside Dili on Tuesday, saying they wanted to march into the capital.

But in his first address since his resignation, the ex-prime minister urged them to wait "a day or two" before entering the city.

He also appeared to hint at a possible come-back.

"We are people who don't want violence and want to win again in 2007," he said, referring to next year's scheduled election.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/5123630.stm
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#30808 - 29 Jun 06 13:40 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
Three things worth noting.

1. In Iraq the West went in to stop a dictator from controlling a population by brutality and force. Now we are stuffed. The “good goody two shoes” bleeding heart liberals not like us using brutality. Without it the population return to killing each other.


2. In Timor we removed a miliary regime (TNI) from controlling a population by brutality and force. Now we are stuffed. The “good goody two shoes” bleeding heart liberals not like us using brutality. Without it the population return to killing each other.

3. The “good goody two shoes” bleeding heart liberals objected to Israel occupying the Gaza Strip. Israel made a partial withdrawal. The Palestinians simply moved their rockets up to the new border, from where they can now hit Israeli towns.

So note this well. You CANNOT be nice to fucking savages. Either leave them alone or kill them. Being nice achieves fuck all.

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#30809 - 30 Jun 06 05:06 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Magpie Offline
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Registered: 29 Mar 06
Posts: 1306
Loc: The Toon
Fears over E Timor rival rallies
Supporters of East Timor's former PM Mari Alkatiri, forced to resign on Monday, have rallied in the capital Dili, sparking fears of clashes.
Thousands travelled into the city to show their support for Mr Alkariti's ruling Fretilin party.

Foreign peacekeepers escorted the group amid tight security, after checking all participants for weapons.

It was unclear if they could be kept apart from anti-Alkatiri protesters, still thought to be in the capital.

On Wednesday there were sporadic attacks across Dili, with international peacekeepers trying to separate the rival factions.

More than 20 houses were torched, and youths threw stones at a refugee camp.

President Xanana Gusmao said in a statement on Thursday that early elections were needed to solve the political paralysis in East Timor.

"I am conscious that the current crisis can only be completely overcome through free elections to be held as soon as possible," he said.

East-west divide

Chanting "Viva Alkatiri", the Fretilin supporters travelled to Dili in a convoy of packed trucks, buses, cars and motorbikes, escorted by Australian peacekeepers.

Fretilin spokesman Jose Reis told the French news agency AFP that "thousands" of people were joining the march, although exact numbers were difficult to assess.


He said they planned to drive around the city and hand a letter to President Gusmao asking him to respect Fretilin.
"We want to prove to the world that Fretilin has the majority [in parliament], and to demand that President Xanana Gusmao respect the constitution in resolving this crisis," said another rally organiser, Filomeno Aleixo.

Since Mr Alkatiri's resignation, under intense pressure from both inside and outside East Timor, Mr Gusmao has been holding discussions about who will replace him as the country's next prime minister.

Fretilin, which holds 55 of parliament's 88 seats, has the constitutional right to nominate the next premier. Fretilin supporters are anxious that this right is upheld.

The pro and anti-Fretilin groups are symbols of a deeper division - that between east and west of the country.

Western Timorese are often seen as having had more links with Jakarta during the period of Indonesian occupation. Easterners claim they played the major part in the 1999 uprising which ended Jakarta's rule.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/asia-pacific/5127752.stm
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#30810 - 01 Jul 06 10:24 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
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Posts: 1306
Loc: The Toon
E Timor ex-PM avoids questioning
East Timor's former Prime Minister Mari Alkatiri has refused to turn up for questioning over allegations that he armed a civilian hit squad.
Prosecutor-general Longuinhos Monteiro said Mr Alkatiri was claiming immunity from prosecution as an MP.

Instead the former premier spent Friday morning addressing supporters in the grounds of Dili's university.

"Keep fighting! Keep fighting!" he told the cheering crowds, surrounded by heavily armed foreign peacekeepers.

Mr Alkatiri resigned from his position on Monday, following intense pressure both at home and abroad.

Letter of postponement

East Timor has been beset by unrest since Mr Alkatiri sacked 600 disgruntled soldiers in March.

Gun battles between the rebel soldiers and those loyal to the government then broke out, with machete-wielding youths forcing thousands to flee their homes in fear.

As well as blaming him for triggering the violence, Mr Alkatiri's opponents also allege that he formed a hit squad to kill his political rivals - a charge he firmly denies.

A close ally, former Interior Minister Rogerio Lobato, already faces charges over distributing the arms.

Mr Alkatiri had been summoned to appear for questioning on Friday in relation to these accusations, but Mr Monteiro said he had received a letter requesting a postponement.

"Mr Alkatiri is not coming to be interrogated today for two reasons," Mr Monteiro told reporters.

"The first reason is after his resignation from the government he has now become a member of parliament [so] he has immunity," he said.

"And the second thing, he is still awaiting the arrival of his lawyers who will be coming from abroad."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/asia-pacific/5131922.stm
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#30811 - 05 Jul 06 08:26 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Magpie Offline
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Posts: 1306
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Cosgrove backs Timor military reform

Wednesday July 5, 08:30 AM

Former defence chief Peter Cosgrove has backed moves to reform East Timor's troubled military and police.

General Cosgrove, who commanded the 1999 Australian-led East Timor intervention force, welcomed the end of violence on Dili's streets following the latest intervention by Australian troops.

He welcomed plans to reorganise the security forces.

"It is plain that there is a problem between the police and army which must be resolved as an early order of business," he told ABC Radio.

"If they have got the will and the motivation of a man like (Jose) Ramos Horta behind them, then I hope the political elite in East Timor take it to heart.

"The old Falintil warriors, we need a bit more done for them, an honourable and more settled future."

General Cosgrove said Australia would continue to need to intervene in regional nations in need of help.

"While ever we remain stable, affluent and democratic and a mature and developed nation, it is our responsibility and indeed our role," he said.

"Our geography is eternal. We shouldn't ever seek to escape these services we can provide to our friends."

General Cosgrove said everyone would want to see such interventions performed as the lowest possible level.

"But simply when you look around Australia, indeed through those magnificent men and women in the federal police, there is not so many of them that they can afford to go in against literally thousands of rampaging rioters," he said.

"While the army would prefer that they weren't involved, of course they can do those sorts of jobs. You saw that the immediate effect was to start to return confidence to the people not involved in street violence and them push the street gangs off the streets - and really, that was what was needed at that time."

http://au.news.yahoo.com//060629/2/zld5.html
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#30812 - 05 Jul 06 09:21 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Polar Bear Offline
Pujangga Besar

Registered: 23 Nov 05
Posts: 6177
The talk now is the cost of rebuilding Timor AGAIN!!!!!

I get a bit pissed to see gangs roaming the street smashing the place up, then hearing the next day that my taxes are going to be spent fixing it again.

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#30813 - 05 Jul 06 09:28 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
KuKuKaChu Moderator Offline
Pooh Bah

Registered: 09 Oct 05
Posts: 10790
Loc: Centre of the Universe
you could refer to it as "moral hazard":

Quote:

Moral Hazard: The tendency of individuals, firms, and governments, once insured against some contingency, to behave so as to make that contingency more likely. A pervasive problem in the insurance industry, it also arises internationally when international financial institutions assist countries in financial trouble.
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#30814 - 06 Jul 06 04:47 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Magpie Offline
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Registered: 29 Mar 06
Posts: 1306
Loc: The Toon
E Timor rebels hand in weapons

A third group of rebel soldiers in East Timor has surrendered its weapons - part of an initiative to restore order in the troubled nation.
Major Augusto Araujo, who heads the rebel faction, said: "We don't want to fight anymore and we support peace."

Many of the rebels still holed up in hills around the capital, Dili, are part of a group of 600 soldiers who were fired from their jobs in March.

The sackings sparked street violence which killed at least 21 people.

Under intense pressure over his handling of the crisis, as well as claims he armed a civilian hit squad, Mari Alkatiri resigned as East Timor's prime minister late last month.

A new premier is due to be picked later this week, with former Foreign Minister Jose Ramos Horta rumoured to be one of the most likely candidates.

Quest for peace

Major Araujo and his men handed nine guns, mostly automatic rifles, over to Australian peacekeepers.

Two other groups of rebel soldiers have given up their weapons in recent weeks, although other factions are still thought to be holding on to their arms.

President Xanana Gusmao has repeatedly called for all groups to hand in their weapons, in order for peace to be restored.

"We... ask President Xanana to ensure all are disarmed holding illegal weapons, otherwise Xanana will lose the people's trust," Major Araujo told the Associated Press.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/asia-pacific/5149246.stm
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#30815 - 27 Aug 06 14:46 Re: CNN/Australia rushes troops to Timor
Magpie Offline
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New UN peacekeepers for E Timor

The United Nations Security Council has established a new peacekeeping mission in East Timor with an initial mandate for six months.

The new force will replace the current smaller mission and will include more than 1,500 police and up to 35 military liaison officers, but no troops.

An Australian-led force sent to East Timor following an outbreak of violence three months ago will remain for now.

Its status will be reviewed in two months' time.

UN Secretary General Kofi Annan had asked the Security Council to agree to a year-long extension of the UN mission in the wake of the violence.

At least 25 people were killed and about 150,000 were left living in makeshift camps.

Trouble erupted after then-Prime Minister Mari Alkatiri dismissed 600 soldiers - or nearly half of the tiny East Timorese army - when they protested over alleged discrimination against soldiers from the west of the country.

He later resigned and was replaced by Nobel peace laureate Jose Ramos Horta, due to stay in office until elections in May next year.

The resolution passed by the UN Security Council notes that the recent unrest was exacerbated by "poverty and its associated deprivations, including high urban unemployment, especially for youth".


http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/asia-pacific/5288170.stm
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