Many Christians are afraid of Islam. They think it is a restrictive religion, that interfers with individual freedoms.

Is this true?

Well - lets compare Islam to Catholisism.

Muslims want to interfere in my life. Force me to pray 5 times a day. Not partake in alcohol. Not partake in premarital sex. Force women to cover themselves. Force everyone to live by Sharia Law.

The Catholics? Well, under a catholic dominated Irish government:

abortion STILL IS ILLEGAL!!!!! http://www.ifpa.ie/abortion/hist.html

Until 1979 condoms were banned!!!!!
http://www2.hu-berlin.de/sexology/IES/ireland.html

the contraceptive pill was illegal until 1985!!!!! http://www.cbctrust.com/history_law_religion.php#15

the “morning after pill” is STILL ILLEGAL!!! http://www.irishhealth.com/?level=4&id=2700

homosexuality was punishable by imprisonment until 1993!!! http://www.gaytimes.co.uk/gt/default.asp?topic=country&country=508

Pre marital sex was technically illegal!!!

Divorce was ILLEGAL until 1997!!! http://www.divorceuk.com/pages/keyissues/diveire.php


A Catholic australian health Minister (Tony Abbot) tried hard to keep an abortion pill off the shelves of Australia. Now he will spend $50 million on “Abortion counseling” 50 dollars says the Catholic church gets the contract!!!!!

Catholicism is just as radical, and can be just as dangerous, as Islam.

Chosen a touchy subject this time PB

Talking religion could be sensitive to some people. Hope not here

is there any religion that does now have an inherent ability to become dangerous, intolerant and authoritiarian? i don't think there is. religion should be banned, or at the very least, only licenced people of proven maturity and sound mind should be allowed to practice a religion.
religion is too dangerous to be left to the half-educated.

It could be dangerous if they're too fanatic and thinking that their religion is the only right way of life and the best thing for everyone.

yes, but the problem is that every religion tends towards fanaticism and intolerance by their very nature. it is ultimately impossible for 2 or more absolutist world views to live side by side; one will eventually have to give. so why don't we invent a new religion, called the One And Only True Religion, whose only unifying mission is to destroy other religions?

Listen carefully to what I am saying, lest you misunderstand me:

Christianity - especially Catholicism, is just as restrictive in its views as Islam.

Those people who are scared of the rise of Islam should take a long hard look at religion in the West before making comment.

Lets look at some facts:

Sharia Law V Western Law

Sharia law is based upon the Koran, and is intended to enforce the religious practices of Islam. Most people in Australia are horrified at the thought of the introduction of Sharia law.

Yet they live under and abide by a set of laws that originated in the ecclesiastical courts of England. In the Middle Ages these Christian religious courts had wide powers, and were acknowledged to be the experts in The Corpus Juris Civilis (Body of Civil Law). Thus many of the laws today were based upon the Churches interpretation of Roman Laws. The interpretation of course, always suited the teaching of the church……..

Thus the laws that I live under are actually a Christian equivalent to Sharia law. I cannot have more than one wife by law. Why? Because the Church of England decided I could not!!!!!!!!

As a young man in England I could not:
buy alcohol on Sundays (a religious law).
I could not hear live music on Sundays (a religious law)
I could not drink during church hours on Sundays. (a religious law)
I could not dance on Good Friday (a religious law)
I could not SHOP on Sundays (a religious law)

All of the above laws were introduced by the Church of England to protect its “business”!!!

Sharia law is not so different from the garbage laws introduced by Chrisitanity.

This is where I think religion should not involve itself in any state politics. Or the state is not controlled by any religion in any shape or form. But throughout history and beyond the reverse is always true.

What it all boils down to in its truest form religion is just a nicer word for cult. The word 'cult' is probably created by one of the religious group to protect its own interest at the time.

The point that PB made is ringing true.

Right now a Catholic governement minister (Tony Abbott) is trying to make it harder to get an abortion.

He tried to ban the abortion pill RU486.

Now he is trying to force girls to have counciling before they can have an abortion. He is paying $50 MILLION of my taxes to Catholic Church anti abortion movements, to organise this.

Catholicism v Islam.

Same same!

I started this thread to appease Kuamr, who wrote:

This time it is definetly, I'm out of the general forums. The mindless spamming has taken new heights and is pretty annoying. Too much scrolling to find a worthy reply these days, if there is even a worthy reply. No problem if you could keep it to one thread but it spreads like a disease to all threads.

Thank you for your time.Take care and enjoy spamming

Salâmun `alaika yâ al-Masîh! (Peace on You, Jesus)
Published: 28/12/2005
We sometimes fail to remember that many Muslims were no longer interested in building a social gap with others of different faith. They realize that congratulating non-Muslims on their holidays does not contain theological interest, but it is a way to build tolerance and respect among religious disciples.
In the end of year, some Muslims were trapped by Islamic legal questions on whether they were allowed to wish the Christians a merry Christmas or not. The answer varies and depends on the perspective of Muslim clerics. However, it seems that most of them forbid Muslims to congratulate the Non-Muslim’s holiday.

One of the reasons behind this prohibition is due to its negative implication. They presume that to congratulate Non-Muslims on their holidays (e.g. Christmas) is to justify their beliefs, while according to Islamic perception some aspects of these beliefs have been manipulated and corrupted (muharraf).

Some of them will add a brief historical data about Christmas, that it is a mere extension of a festival called Natalis Solis Invicti (birthday of invincible sun) which was a custom of Roman pagans. This ritual then adopted into the Christian’s tradition and became part of the Christian’s doctrine despite of different dates of celebration. The Roman Catholic Church, Protestant Church, Greek and Roman Orthodox Church celebrate it on 25 December. While most of Eastern Orthodox Church such as Coptic Church in Egypt, celebrate it on 7th of January.

These additional facts used to affirm the prohibition of wishing the Christians on Christmas day. Therefore, Muslims who tolerate Christian’s religious practice, for instance by wishing them a merry Christmas, will be regarded as admitting unjustified thing in Islam.

They will also insert in their argument surah al-Maidah: 3 “This day have I perfected your religion for you and completed My favour unto you, and have chosen for you as religion Al-Islam” and Ali Imran: 19 “Lo! Religion with Allah is al-Islam”. Popular interpretation of these verses asserts that Islam is the only perfect, complete and blessed religion.

Another reason behind this prohibition is an assumption that saying a merry Christmas will blemish common Muslim’s faith, which I think is exaggerated. Based on various reasons too, a famous Muslim cleric in Jakarta advised the President of Indonesia not to join the Christmas celebration and to appoint a Christian cabinet minister instead of him.
I think this advice will be neglected in countries with strong Islamic tradition such as Egypt, Tunisia, Morocco, Jordan etc, because it seems to underestimate the capability of Muslim (even president) to guard his faith. Everyone knows that congratulating the Christians on Christmas day is just an ethical conduct and part of social wisdom within society.
We sometimes fail to remember that many Muslims were no longer interested in building a social gap with others of different faith. They realize that congratulating non-Muslims on their holidays does not contain theological interest, but it is a way to build tolerance and respect among religious disciples.

Such trivial deed seems as an oasis in the dessert, within the escalation of religious intolerance today. I think wishing a merry Christmas will never bring about faith destruction for Muslims, but create peace and social harmony in this plural country.

Based on this consideration, I sincerely wish all my Christian friends a merry Christmas in the similar wording to Quranic verses surah Maryam 33: “Peace on you (Isa or Jesus) the day you were born, the day you died, and the day you raised alive!”

but then, kumar has not joined this discussion ... perhaps he does not think about these kinds of issues? he's indian, so there's a high possibility that he's hindu. hinduism also has in recent decades demonstrated symptoms of intolerance and arrogance.

sometimes I was confused to different between Islam and Catolic or Christian...because I lives with 2 religion...my dad's religion is Islam and my Mom's religion is Catholic..and they tried to apply two religious teachings in my life...
actually..between Islam, Catholic or any religion in this world..those of all..always Taught the truth..

Both are religions of peace, and the teachings of Jesus are incorporated in the Qur’an. Jesus is a great man in the Qur’an. He is highly regarded.

The teachings of Jesus belong not to Christianity alone but to the world corpus of philosophical literature, free of the need for belief and common to mankind.

Islam is a religion and, keeping truth with itself, would find itself incapable of being anything other than a religion. It is founded on the very mind-set of belief. Its name, Islam, means, literally, subjection: to be thrown under. It describes the ideal state, which exists between a believer and God. The idea that it is derived from the word ‘peace’ is untrue. Converts to it seek its certainty and its way of life. Apostates from it seek freedom from it. Islam is only distantly related to Christianity. It does not fulfil or supersede it. That is an untruth put about to win converts.

Finally, we should look at the age in which we are. In the West, we have remarkable freedom. This is relatively new. Fifty years ago, in the United States, a man convicted of homosexuality could be forced to undergo brain surgery. In the 1930’s, in Great Britain, a (working class) woman could be sent to a mental hospital for life for having an illegitimate child. The power of the Church was broken in Ireland only recently, and even now women seeking abortion after rape have to travel abroad. So freedom is a new thing. We have to learn to live with it. In the absence of an external system of discipline — which is a major part of any religion — the art of self-discipline has to be learnt. This may take generations. Different realities have to be lived, and, where there is no hope of heaven and no fear of hell, different aspirations have to be sought; different fears have to be understood.

touchy subjects are usually the only ones worth talking about

You aren't talking about Hindu Bali arent you Kuku??

Different realities have to be lived, and, where there is no hope of heaven and no fear of hell, different aspirations have to be sought; different fears have to be understood.
Yes Kumar, thats the point is we should look where we live on age now, and we should be adjust to our living now without harm or mock each other and like you said different fears have to be understood and I believe there is no religion in this world which teach harmness or bad, but I'm little bit scary to what happen in INA this time especially when there is any demonstration in front of US Embassy protested to US, and they want to make this country all of using Sharia Law, Islam Sharia, maybe its good and properly for some other but the other part, but we should look back, INA is a plural and multi cultural country, they have their own culture and traditions, and it goes and exist from the long time ago, they (the pro Sharia) can't change just like that! And look for the new rules about pornography that will exist, ok but we should look for the other side of it, example I came from Central Java and I have traditonal clothes it call "Kemben" just from chest until feet, do I should be arrest and it can be call "Porno" ? I think its ridicolous.

hindu bali? oh no no no, not them. mereka baik hati kok. but i must say that bali hinduism does register rather highly on the Okusi Weird Shit Index™

Good to know kuku! or beli goof will demo you in front of okusi!

you are right, but even in the west we still have stupid laws.......

Back in the fold again, seems that the touchy subject is going swimmingly, even brought Kumar back on board...

Yes nothing like a contraversial "prod" to get them chatting at the bar.

How was your holiday?

and how was Booby-Ruby?

I don't mind at all I'm a pretty open-minded guy. I like hearing comments having discussion about a lot of things, regardless whether they're touchy, bad, good, whatever.

By the way, why do you think it's weird?

I do think that if people cannot have open discussion like this, then those people do not really understand the subject.

After the drive trhough the disappearing Rain Forest today I may stir up a touchy subject or two. By the way my father taught me never to discuss politics or religion in a bar, chat rooms are similar to bars, you never know what will offend the person sitting next to you.

I amy be offline for a while as my sister called to say my father tried to take his life, apparently he is well in hospital, he's 74 and I have not spoken to him since my daughter was born almost 11 years ago.(She has never seen her grandfather and is always saying when can I meet my Grandpa)

Funny how some subjects (such as religion) nremind you of things and serendipity come along and kicks you in the ass!

Seems like I have some thinking to do tonight!

I think it's not realy understand or not..but not at all of the people didn't like about the topic..moreover about religion..it's very sensitive...more sensitive than women who PMS..

What is the difference between a religious terrorist and a woman with PMS?

You can negotiate with the terrorist!

Mate, I hope your old man gets well soon and all the best for you and your fam.

I'm not sure about the different but the equality is sensitive and emotional...

Thanks Goof, He appears to have been a bit of a stupid bastard, not religious in the least, dont know yet what made him think about it?

Incidentally, suicide is a crime in both Isalm and Catholicism!

When I lived in the middle east, the papers were full of low paid asian workers who came to the end of their tether and tried to commit suicide. If the medics saved them, they ware handed over to the cops who promptly charged them and they got six months to a year in jail - a caring society indeed.

Catholics who top themselves just dont get through the pearly gates.....ah the afterlife, I wonder what does or does not await us mortal sinners?

Way I see it we are all going to some sort of heaven as we have already been through hell down(or is it up) here!

Dilli, I hope your father is ok

If he's made of the same stuff as me only kryptonite will kill the bastard!

What if there is no religion after all?
Can we live in peace?

Look what happened to the man who penned the words, the peace loving Lennon got gunned down by a fan! Funnily enough, I remeber the day clearly, I was at college and it became one of those moments in life when everything stops and you remember that moment forever. The times before were the first man on the moon, the day JF Kennedy was shot.

I do however agree with your sentiments. All religions are broadly based on the same sentiments, they just differ as to how thay are applied.

As for tonight, I feel a forty ouncer coming on(Scottish for a very large quantity of alcohol)

Tonight I am looking into Victoria's Secret new collection

Have one for me mate. I have a bit of a sad situation on my hands right now.

How bad life looks, when you open the curtains.

PB, are u ok?

I would rather the cutains be made of beef, as for Ruby's Victoria's secert catalogue, time to get the kleenex out methinks..And she truly lives in the Jungle, can you imagine her swining from tree to tree wearing that cute little ensemble from page 36, makes me want to say Me Tarzan - you Ruby.

Get rid of the bad situation, the usual crap is things can only get better, however, you've not been stopped in Bali or Singapore with a bag full of life shortening candy, anything else you can work around...

LOL, I am sleeping in the tree too....

Life 'o life...it's up and down, sad and happy, tears and laugh...bad and good, that's life.

A girl I use to know died a few years ago. now the case is going to trial. Zoe wasn’t an angel, but she didn’t deserve to die.

Its so sad.

Oh I am so sorry to hear that...

That brings us neatly back to religion, the original reason for religion was to control you so that if you prayed your prayers, paid your taxes to the church you would recieve an afterlife.

I'm screwed (metaphorically)

Ahh...life...religion...complicated to say the least.

Those sacred words penned by the man himself (John Lennon) lives forever. Well, just imagine what would it be like if those words were true.

The cycle of life, when you're up you go down, when you're down you go up.

I am still imagining Ruby in those Victoria Secret catalogue...so delicious...what colour would it be? White? Red? Or the little black number? It doesn't matter really...

Religion is an attempt to prevent a population from asking questions that its leaders cannot answer.....

I must be religious at work then.....

Ruby just love looking Victoria's secret, Ruby prefer wear nothing

Pagi Dilli...